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Vernon Davis wants new deal
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oldman9er


Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is VD the most important non-QB weapon? does he deserve more $$$? is he a competent weapon in the short pass game? Does he really expect Baalke to cave? or is he really just using this as a reason to miss OTAs and follow his own art endeavors?

I give all of this just enough thought to simply say that I can see both sides of this... and overall, " meh... whatever... show yer arse up for actual TC, Vernon... Miss that? and then, I will be concerned. "


All of this other gobble-gobble-turkey talk for now is just whatevz.
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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
Is VD the most important non-QB weapon? does he deserve more $$$? is he a competent weapon in the short pass game? Does he really expect Baalke to cave? or is he really just using this as a reason to miss OTAs and follow his own art endeavors?

I give all of this just enough thought to simply say that I can see both sides of this... and overall, " meh... whatever... show yer arse up for actual TC, Vernon... Miss that? and then, I will be concerned. "


All of this other gobble-gobble-turkey talk for now is just whatevz.


Pretty much this. Davis could do whatever he wants up to this point, but missing training camp will be terrible.
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FG21_PW52


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
oldman9er wrote:
Is VD the most important non-QB weapon? does he deserve more $$$? is he a competent weapon in the short pass game? Does he really expect Baalke to cave? or is he really just using this as a reason to miss OTAs and follow his own art endeavors?

I give all of this just enough thought to simply say that I can see both sides of this... and overall, " meh... whatever... show yer arse up for actual TC, Vernon... Miss that? and then, I will be concerned. "


All of this other gobble-gobble-turkey talk for now is just whatevz.


Pretty much this. Davis could do whatever he wants up to this point, but missing training camp will be terrible.


I hope he does. Acting like this, he doesn't deserve what he's getting now. What irks me the most about this whole thing is how he's advocating Graham getting WR money, but that's because he's actually split out wide more than he is on the line. Vernon, does not produce WR like numbers, and does not split out nearly enough to be considered a WR. He's just fast, he has 'WR speed' so now he thinks he should be paid like one? Nah, I'd rather cut ties and pay Crabs. Vernon, just show up to work. Stop being an idiot. SF loves you, but if you're not gonna show up to work and demand money that you don't deserve, you can kick rocks dude.

P.S. - if this holdout continues, be on the look out for (Vance obviously) Asante Cleveland. If he can make plays during training camp and get reps with the 1's while Vernon is gone, he could make a run at the 53 (Celek's spot maybe). The #3 TE shouldn't be important, but when your #1 isn't there... Gotta start looking around. Plan as if he won't be there, as if he's injured.
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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Graham does get WR money, it should be irrelevant Davis' case since he is a TE. I mean was he implying Graham should get WR money so Davis uses that as leverage?
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
If Graham does get WR money, it should be irrelevant Davis' case since he is a TE. I mean was he implying Graham should get WR money so Davis uses that as leverage?



It almost seems as if the TE money thing has become a cause. VD is lobbying in order to further the cause. He probably dreams of a day of position equality. How dare the owners segregate entire groups of players. Everyone should be paid the same, AND too much. Yes, Andy Lee, I have your back! And I have you ON my back, because I'm the non-family member who bought your jersey!
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:



All of this other gobble-gobble-turkey talk for now is just whatevz.


It's what we talk about in the dead of the offseason. Can't wait for a few more weeks to pass so we can start talking about camp.
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oldman9er


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
oldman9er wrote:



All of this other gobble-gobble-turkey talk for now is just whatevz.


It's what we talk about in the dead of the offseason. Can't wait for a few more weeks to pass so we can start talking about camp.


Oh, I meant no offense (if taken)..

I get it.. and it's at least been something to read here.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldman9er wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
oldman9er wrote:



All of this other gobble-gobble-turkey talk for now is just whatevz.


It's what we talk about in the dead of the offseason. Can't wait for a few more weeks to pass so we can start talking about camp.


Oh, I meant no offense (if taken)..

I get it.. and it's at least been something to read here.


None taken. I actually agree with your comment. Silly conversation that probably wouldn't take place if there was anything else to talk about.
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J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From @PFF, #Saints Jimmy Graham lined up as traditional TE 33.3% last season; #49ers Vernon Davis was there 64.5%. http://t.co/zvDlcfWUfn


From Maiocco
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clarkfn2284


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronnie's Pinky wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
The open market determines the value on the open market as well as the value of a contract a player under team control receives. If Vernon hit the market today we all know someone would pay him more. SO the options are pay him to not be there, which no team realistically is going to do. Release him, which is always a possibility or work out a deal so that player doesnt have to be released and hit the market where he will get his money.


Wut? The above doesn't describe, at all, how NFL contracts work. If Vernon doesn't honor his contract by taking the field and playing, the 49ers don't have to pay him one cent. So "pay him to not be there" is only an option if the Yorks are feeling particularly generous.

It should read: "not pay him to not be there, and have his cap hit roll over into next year's numbers". The team has all the leverage here. Vernon gets nothing if he doesn't play, and he still owes the team two years of service under the terms of the original contract. If he sits out for the season, the only thing that changes is that his legs get a year older.


In VD's case they actually would not have to pay as I believe anything he has been guaranteed has already been paid, but in NFL contracts if the player still has money that is guaranteed to him and a team cuts him they have to pay that money. So in a hypothetical situation if the Niners were to give a player 30 mil guaranteed but have it be structured to be spread throughout 4 years and in year 4 he is cut they still have to pay that guarantee. I dont think Vernon is actually owed anything at this point though.
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okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
Ronnie's Pinky wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
The open market determines the value on the open market as well as the value of a contract a player under team control receives. If Vernon hit the market today we all know someone would pay him more. SO the options are pay him to not be there, which no team realistically is going to do. Release him, which is always a possibility or work out a deal so that player doesnt have to be released and hit the market where he will get his money.


Wut? The above doesn't describe, at all, how NFL contracts work. If Vernon doesn't honor his contract by taking the field and playing, the 49ers don't have to pay him one cent. So "pay him to not be there" is only an option if the Yorks are feeling particularly generous.

It should read: "not pay him to not be there, and have his cap hit roll over into next year's numbers". The team has all the leverage here. Vernon gets nothing if he doesn't play, and he still owes the team two years of service under the terms of the original contract. If he sits out for the season, the only thing that changes is that his legs get a year older.


In VD's case they actually would not have to pay as I believe anything he has been guaranteed has already been paid, but in NFL contracts if the player still has money that is guaranteed to him and a team cuts him they have to pay that money. So in a hypothetical situation if the Niners were to give a player 30 mil guaranteed but have it be structured to be spread throughout 4 years and in year 4 he is cut they still have to pay that guarantee. I dont think Vernon is actually owed anything at this point though.


What is "guaranteed" and under what circumstances is always a bit of a mystery to me. But I think Ronnie is right. He wasn't talking about the 49ers cutting him. His point is that if Vernon refuses to pay then he doesn't earn his salary. If he doesn't play then he's in violation of his contract and the team doesn't have to pay him. At least that's the way I think it works.
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Miami49er


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Ronnie's Pinky wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
The open market determines the value on the open market as well as the value of a contract a player under team control receives. If Vernon hit the market today we all know someone would pay him more. SO the options are pay him to not be there, which no team realistically is going to do. Release him, which is always a possibility or work out a deal so that player doesnt have to be released and hit the market where he will get his money.


Wut? The above doesn't describe, at all, how NFL contracts work. If Vernon doesn't honor his contract by taking the field and playing, the 49ers don't have to pay him one cent. So "pay him to not be there" is only an option if the Yorks are feeling particularly generous.

It should read: "not pay him to not be there, and have his cap hit roll over into next year's numbers". The team has all the leverage here. Vernon gets nothing if he doesn't play, and he still owes the team two years of service under the terms of the original contract. If he sits out for the season, the only thing that changes is that his legs get a year older.


In VD's case they actually would not have to pay as I believe anything he has been guaranteed has already been paid, but in NFL contracts if the player still has money that is guaranteed to him and a team cuts him they have to pay that money. So in a hypothetical situation if the Niners were to give a player 30 mil guaranteed but have it be structured to be spread throughout 4 years and in year 4 he is cut they still have to pay that guarantee. I dont think Vernon is actually owed anything at this point though.


What is "guaranteed" and under what circumstances is always a bit of a mystery to me. But I think Ronnie is right. He wasn't talking about the 49ers cutting him. His point is that if Vernon refuses to pay then he doesn't earn his salary. If he doesn't play then he's in violation of his contract and the team doesn't have to pay him. At least that's the way I think it works.
yea i believe that's the way it works. if you refuse to play then you're forfeiting your paycheck for that game.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miami49er wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
Ronnie's Pinky wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
The open market determines the value on the open market as well as the value of a contract a player under team control receives. If Vernon hit the market today we all know someone would pay him more. SO the options are pay him to not be there, which no team realistically is going to do. Release him, which is always a possibility or work out a deal so that player doesnt have to be released and hit the market where he will get his money.


Wut? The above doesn't describe, at all, how NFL contracts work. If Vernon doesn't honor his contract by taking the field and playing, the 49ers don't have to pay him one cent. So "pay him to not be there" is only an option if the Yorks are feeling particularly generous.

It should read: "not pay him to not be there, and have his cap hit roll over into next year's numbers". The team has all the leverage here. Vernon gets nothing if he doesn't play, and he still owes the team two years of service under the terms of the original contract. If he sits out for the season, the only thing that changes is that his legs get a year older.


In VD's case they actually would not have to pay as I believe anything he has been guaranteed has already been paid, but in NFL contracts if the player still has money that is guaranteed to him and a team cuts him they have to pay that money. So in a hypothetical situation if the Niners were to give a player 30 mil guaranteed but have it be structured to be spread throughout 4 years and in year 4 he is cut they still have to pay that guarantee. I dont think Vernon is actually owed anything at this point though.


What is "guaranteed" and under what circumstances is always a bit of a mystery to me. But I think Ronnie is right. He wasn't talking about the 49ers cutting him. His point is that if Vernon refuses to pay then he doesn't earn his salary. If he doesn't play then he's in violation of his contract and the team doesn't have to pay him. At least that's the way I think it works.
yea i believe that's the way it works. if you refuse to play then you're forfeiting your paycheck for that game.


Do you have any idea if they just divide the annual salary by 16 and then a guy loses one sixteenth per game? What about preseason?
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So now Davis said he is fine without getting a new deal and at least he tried? Laughing

Our FO does not play games and they weren't going to panic here. Davis missed some valuable time for essentially no reason since he doesn't expect to hold out in TC. This is exactly what Sherman was talking about. If you are going to hold out, then go all the way and hold out in TC. But if you are going to eventually break, it does no good and you just wasted your time.
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Miami49er


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:

Do you have any idea if they just divide the annual salary by 16 and then a guy loses one sixteenth per game? What about preseason?

i'm sure it's divided by 16. Channing Crowder hosts a radio show down here and i remember he said something about getting 16 game checks. i think the preseason money is whatever workout money get for training camp since preseason is still part of training camp.
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