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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8855
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Rob wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
Raiders coach Dennis Allen said that Derek Carr will open training camp as the No. 2 quarterback ahead of Matt McGloin and that the team wants to speed up the NFL immersion of a player who has been better than the team expected this spring.

Allen: Were trying to expedite his progression. I like a lot of the things that Ive seen out of Derek. Hes still got a long way to go, but I like the direction that hes headed.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/20/derek-carr-up-to-no-2-on-raiders-depth-chart/


I don't know if I like this very much, what if Schaub gets hurt in a game because our T is getting beat up and down the field and then we have to put our potential QBOTF in a situation like that, I'm more comfortable with McGloin taking over in this situation, if he's not starting then why leave him in a position to be thrown in a tough spot.


Take off the training wheels and let the best players play...

Yes ultimatley you have to play to win unless its last couple games of season and you are trying to develop someone. Even if McGloin and Carr are neck and neck and a situation comes up where Schaub is no longer starting it just makes more sense to get Carr in there. Now if McGloin was miles ahead of Carr than ya I would disagree with it. But that does not seem to be the case.
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Big Rob


Joined: 24 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like that he wasnt handed anything and had to show he was a better QB(in shorts) than McGloin...my question is IF he shows better than Schaub in PreSeason will the staff make him a day 1 starter?

Not saying i think he will, i think Schaub will bounce back. I just wonder if we are dead set in sitting Carr. I know before the draft McKenzie stated he wanted to sit whoever we drafted. BUT Carr has been impressive and is further along than anticipated.
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OakleyCap


Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Schaub will have to play absolutely terrible and/or Carr will have to play absolutely phenomenal for a shift at the top of the depth chart.

I've always thought that the best player should play and if Carr is the quarterback that gives us the best chance to win football games next season I'm in favor of him starting.

I still expect Schaub to be our starter unless he gets injured.
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Speed_Wrench


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 4657
Location: Bay area
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Rob wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
Raiders coach Dennis Allen said that Derek Carr will open training camp as the No. 2 quarterback ahead of Matt McGloin and that the team wants to speed up the NFL immersion of a player who has been better than the team expected this spring.

Allen: Were trying to expedite his progression. I like a lot of the things that Ive seen out of Derek. Hes still got a long way to go, but I like the direction that hes headed.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/20/derek-carr-up-to-no-2-on-raiders-depth-chart/


I don't know if I like this very much, what if Schaub gets hurt in a game because our T is getting beat up and down the field and then we have to put our potential QBOTF in a situation like that, I'm more comfortable with McGloin taking over in this situation, if he's not starting then why leave him in a position to be thrown in a tough spot.


Take off the training wheels and let the best players play...


Agreed but why not let the coaching staff have a bit more control over when that happens versus an out of control scenario, do you want his first snaps in real NFL competition be against a defense like Seattle or SF?
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ROFLcopter


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 462
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed_Wrench wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
Raiders coach Dennis Allen said that Derek Carr will open training camp as the No. 2 quarterback ahead of Matt McGloin and that the team wants to speed up the NFL immersion of a player who has been better than the team expected this spring.

Allen: Were trying to expedite his progression. I like a lot of the things that Ive seen out of Derek. Hes still got a long way to go, but I like the direction that hes headed.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/20/derek-carr-up-to-no-2-on-raiders-depth-chart/


I don't know if I like this very much, what if Schaub gets hurt in a game because our T is getting beat up and down the field and then we have to put our potential QBOTF in a situation like that, I'm more comfortable with McGloin taking over in this situation, if he's not starting then why leave him in a position to be thrown in a tough spot.


Take off the training wheels and let the best players play...


Agreed but why not let the coaching staff have a bit more control over when that happens versus an out of control scenario, do you want his first snaps in real NFL competition be against a defense like Seattle or SF?

So you want to keep him below mcgloin on the depth chart despite him ostensibly outperforming thus far and earning that spot? I don't think the team as a whole would be pleased with something like that.
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Speed_Wrench


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROFLcopter wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:
Big Rob wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:
vike daddy wrote:
Raiders coach Dennis Allen said that Derek Carr will open training camp as the No. 2 quarterback ahead of Matt McGloin and that the team wants to speed up the NFL immersion of a player who has been better than the team expected this spring.

Allen: Were trying to expedite his progression. I like a lot of the things that Ive seen out of Derek. Hes still got a long way to go, but I like the direction that hes headed.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/20/derek-carr-up-to-no-2-on-raiders-depth-chart/


I don't know if I like this very much, what if Schaub gets hurt in a game because our T is getting beat up and down the field and then we have to put our potential QBOTF in a situation like that, I'm more comfortable with McGloin taking over in this situation, if he's not starting then why leave him in a position to be thrown in a tough spot.


Take off the training wheels and let the best players play...


Agreed but why not let the coaching staff have a bit more control over when that happens versus an out of control scenario, do you want his first snaps in real NFL competition be against a defense like Seattle or SF?

So you want to keep him below mcgloin on the depth chart despite him ostensibly outperforming thus far and earning that spot? I don't think the team as a whole would be pleased with something like that.


He proved to be the better option during the season in shorts? Obviously I want Carr to turn out as good as we can hope but with a team still rebuilding does he need to be one injury from the field under any circumstance? It's DA's call and I hope he's right on this cause I have been one of his supporters from the start but if this kid gets ruined in his first season then I think DA will be showed the door, I just feel they would be wise to have more control over when he gets out there is all.
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ROFLcopter


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed_Wrench wrote:

He proved to be the better option during the season in shorts? Obviously I want Carr to turn out as good as we can hope but with a team still rebuilding does he need to be one injury from the field under any circumstance? It's DA's call and I hope he's right on this cause I have been one of his supporters from the start but if this kid gets ruined in his first season then I think DA will be showed the door, I just feel they would be wise to have more control over when he gets out there is all.


You're kind of arguing two different points here. Are you saying the coaching staff was simply hasty in moving him to the #2s at this point in time, or are you saying that we should leave him with the #3s in-season regardless of his camp and preseason performance for fear of him being sent in in an undesirable situation? Or are you saying we should leave him on the depth chart at #2 nominally, but not send him in if schaub goes down and we don't like the situation (which would defeat the purpose of him being there in the first place but w/e)
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Speed_Wrench


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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Location: Bay area
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROFLcopter wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:

He proved to be the better option during the season in shorts? Obviously I want Carr to turn out as good as we can hope but with a team still rebuilding does he need to be one injury from the field under any circumstance? It's DA's call and I hope he's right on this cause I have been one of his supporters from the start but if this kid gets ruined in his first season then I think DA will be showed the door, I just feel they would be wise to have more control over when he gets out there is all.


You're kind of arguing two different points here. Are you saying the coaching staff was simply hasty in moving him to the #2s at this point in time, or are you saying that we should leave him with the #3s in-season regardless of his camp and preseason performance for fear of him being sent in in an undesirable situation? Or are you saying we should leave him on the depth chart at #2 nominally, but not send him in if schaub goes down and we don't like the situation (which would defeat the purpose of him being there in the first place but w/e)


Just surprised that DA thinks he's this far along already but then he even contradicts himself by saying Carr has a long ways to go still, is McGloin really that bad that they feel more comfortable with a rookie backing up Schaub? I just thought he was going to be brought along slowly is all and here we are with him next guy in line, I trust DA on this but I think he may be going a bit against his own better judgement is all.
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ROFLcopter


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed_Wrench wrote:
ROFLcopter wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:

He proved to be the better option during the season in shorts? Obviously I want Carr to turn out as good as we can hope but with a team still rebuilding does he need to be one injury from the field under any circumstance? It's DA's call and I hope he's right on this cause I have been one of his supporters from the start but if this kid gets ruined in his first season then I think DA will be showed the door, I just feel they would be wise to have more control over when he gets out there is all.


You're kind of arguing two different points here. Are you saying the coaching staff was simply hasty in moving him to the #2s at this point in time, or are you saying that we should leave him with the #3s in-season regardless of his camp and preseason performance for fear of him being sent in in an undesirable situation? Or are you saying we should leave him on the depth chart at #2 nominally, but not send him in if schaub goes down and we don't like the situation (which would defeat the purpose of him being there in the first place but w/e)


Just surprised that DA thinks he's this far along already but then he even contradicts himself by saying Carr has a long ways to go still, is McGloin really that bad that they feel more comfortable with a rookie backing up Schaub? I just thought he was going to be brought along slowly is all and here we are with him next guy in line, I trust DA on this but I think he may be going a bit against his own better judgement is all.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, you know. It's a steep learning curve to being a solid starting NFL QB, and just because he's progressing faster than expected doesn't mean he doesn't still have much to learn. I'm willing to take his statement at face value.

With regards to mcgloin...it depends on how you want to see it. If it is simply what DA says it is, than it's a bit of a reality check to those who were all in on McGloin that a rookie can come in and impress the coaching staff enough to get the #2 nod at this point in time. If you're cynical...DA is toeing the line by propping up Reggie's draft pick/golden boy (which is silly imo, because DA was just as giggly at his pro day as Reggie was). Or anywhere in between the two ends of the spectrum.
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agarcia34


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's see how he looks in late July when training camp starts Im sure he will work hard in the month of down time so I expect him to continue to work hard away from the team. I don't expect Shaub to win this easily as some expect cause it's not like he left everyone with a good taste in there mouth after last season.
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Speed_Wrench


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

agarcia34 wrote:
Let's see how he looks in late July when training camp starts Im sure he will work hard in the month of down time so I expect him to continue to work hard away from the team. I don't expect Shaub to win this easily as some expect cause it's not like he left everyone with a good taste in there mouth after last season.


Schaub would have to have a Flynn type of camp in order to not be the starter the way I see it, I think Carr and McGloin are going to have a very healthy competitive camp and I hope Matt pushes Carr to beat him out and not just have the 2nd spot handed to him.
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RaidersAreOne


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Location: Canada, but don't worry... i'm not one of those damn dirty french.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally would like to keep Carr on the bench this year. Let Schaub start, and McGloin be #2. But if Carr is impressing that much, then I am fine with it. As long as we arent just throwing him in there to throw him in there like DA kindof made it seem like he was doing. I was honestly very impressed by McGloin last year, due to him being an UDFA and battling his way up the ranks. Beat out a 4th rounder in TW, TP and MF. Very impressive for such a young kid so many wrote off instantly. I am ecstatic we have such a deep QB corp now. Miles ahead of where we were afew years ago.
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Chali21


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McGloin did an admirable job last year and has some talent. However Carr raising to the second spot on the depth chart tells me a few things.

1. The team is impressed with his progression. When Pryor was on the team his second year, he stayed 3rd string until the last game of the season. Carr has shown a grasp of the playbook and enough of a throwing talent to merit the second spot.

2. The team is comfortable with Carr coming in if Schaub goes down. Or they think he'll remain healthy this season.

3. They want him to get as many reps as possible which is difficult if you're 3rd string.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
McGloin did an admirable job last year and has some talent. However Carr raising to the second spot on the depth chart tells me a few things.

1. The team is impressed with his progression. When Pryor was on the team his second year, he stayed 3rd string until the last game of the season. Carr has shown a grasp of the playbook and enough of a throwing talent to merit the second spot.

2. The team is comfortable with Carr coming in if Schaub goes down. Or they think he'll remain healthy this season.

3. They want him to get as many reps as possible which is difficult if you're 3rd string.
Yeah I choose door #3, he needs the reps and if he can't handle it they will simply elevate McGloin again.
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ROFLcopter


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
McGloin did an admirable job last year and has some talent. However Carr raising to the second spot on the depth chart tells me a few things.

1. The team is impressed with his progression. When Pryor was on the team his second year, he stayed 3rd string until the last game of the season. Carr has shown a grasp of the playbook and enough of a throwing talent to merit the second spot.

2. The team is comfortable with Carr coming in if Schaub goes down. Or they think he'll remain healthy this season.

3. They want him to get as many reps as possible which is difficult if you're 3rd string.
Yeah I choose door #3, he needs the reps and if he can't handle it they will simply elevate McGloin again.

The doors aren't mutually exclusive. It could be all 3. Probably is tbh.
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