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Draft Thread: Day 3, Rounds 4-7 (5/10, 12:00pm EST)
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SoS


Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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Location: Sleepless in Seattle
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
SoS wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
We get too caught up in the idea of a guy being in a rotation this season. Norwood, if he plays well enough to make the team, will be developed as Chop Chop's replacement imo


I disagree. The rotation of different niche players appears important to them. Norwood and Kearse do different things.
Explain? Because Carroll specifically addressed with Richardson that he was a guy that had similar skillsets to guys on the roster and that was an intrigue for them

Norwood and Chop Chop play the ball in the air similarly


PRich brings elements no one on our team has. Norwood brings size and polish we don't have. I think we'll be rotating the #3 receiver in and out a lot, with Harvin and PRich as the 1/2.
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
dhunt2402 wrote:
What are your guys' thoughts on Seattle's draft? Seems like a lot of major reaches and UDFA guys to me, with the exception of Kevin Norwood who I think is going to be a Russell Wilson favorite very quickly.
Richardson seems like an early 3rd guy
Britt to me is for a ZBS at RT is a late 3rd
Marsh is a 5th

So i see guys that I would've projected a little later, but Seattle just wants guys that fit their scheme. It's impossible to say because most of our guys we're not drafting for impact this year. We're drafting for down the road


That's fair. They had a few shots at Desir and McGill, was surprised they didn't snag one of those two in the 4th. KPL will at least be a great special teamer too.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhunt2402 wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
dhunt2402 wrote:
What are your guys' thoughts on Seattle's draft? Seems like a lot of major reaches and UDFA guys to me, with the exception of Kevin Norwood who I think is going to be a Russell Wilson favorite very quickly.
Richardson seems like an early 3rd guy
Britt to me is for a ZBS at RT is a late 3rd
Marsh is a 5th

So i see guys that I would've projected a little later, but Seattle just wants guys that fit their scheme. It's impossible to say because most of our guys we're not drafting for impact this year. We're drafting for down the road


That's fair. They had a few shots at Desir and McGill, was surprised they didn't snag one of those two in the 4th. KPL will at least be a great special teamer too.
KPL is a clone of Malcolm Smith with an extra 10 pounds of ridiculous definition Laughing He'll be groomed as the WLB heir apparent
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Bigjoe0075


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garrett was a predraft visit and supposedly runs sub 5 second 40.
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Tooki


Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoS wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
SoS wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
We get too caught up in the idea of a guy being in a rotation this season. Norwood, if he plays well enough to make the team, will be developed as Chop Chop's replacement imo


I disagree. The rotation of different niche players appears important to them. Norwood and Kearse do different things.
Explain? Because Carroll specifically addressed with Richardson that he was a guy that had similar skillsets to guys on the roster and that was an intrigue for them

Norwood and Chop Chop play the ball in the air similarly


PRich brings elements no one on our team has. Norwood brings size and polish we don't have. I think we'll be rotating the #3 receiver in and out a lot, with Harvin and PRich as the 1/2.


Agreed, especially as Luke Willson will get reps in the slot, especially this year.
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Meeker


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NFL_Announcer wrote:
The worst was the Carpenter draft. I knew Carpenter/Moffit and Harper would all bust, god that draft was pathetic.


Harper wasn't in that draft...?

That draft was pathetic? You do know the draft goes past the first couple rounds, right? Holy crap, that draft was great.
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sirensong


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meeker wrote:
NFL_Announcer wrote:
The worst was the Carpenter draft. I knew Carpenter/Moffit and Harper would all bust, god that draft was pathetic.


Harper wasn't in that draft...?

That draft was pathetic? You do know the draft goes past the first couple rounds, right? Holy crap, that draft was great.


Sure we hit on a monster late round gem. Maxwell, Wright and Smith are all nice players.

But 3 of our 1st 4 picks were complete disasters. We cant continue to throw away high picks and expect to get Sherman or Chancellor every year. The odds not matter how good you are will catch up.

We should still do what we do in those rounds and we do that better than anyone. But our early round picks deserve every single bit of questioning that they get at this point. We've consistently drafted questionably in the early rounds.

I mean could you imagine this team with Mo Wilkerson? How about Fletcher Cox or Michael Brockers? Or DeCastro, or Warford?

I was SCREAMING for Keenan Allen and we have Christine Michael who couldnt even get on the field when were desperate at WR.
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SwiftTexan


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirensong wrote:
Meeker wrote:
NFL_Announcer wrote:
The worst was the Carpenter draft. I knew Carpenter/Moffit and Harper would all bust, god that draft was pathetic.


Harper wasn't in that draft...?

That draft was pathetic? You do know the draft goes past the first couple rounds, right? Holy crap, that draft was great.


Sure we hit on a monster late round gem. Maxwell, Wright and Smith are all nice players.

But 3 of our 1st 4 picks were complete disasters. We cant continue to throw away high picks and expect to get Sherman or Chancellor every year. The odds not matter how good you are will catch up.

We should still do what we do in those rounds and we do that better than anyone. But our early round picks deserve every single bit of questioning that they get at this point. We've consistently drafted questionably in the early rounds.


Let's see about that... I assume you're referring just to the Pete Carroll era so we'll start in 2010. I'll grade them on a simple 0-2 scale. Zero = complete bust. One = Average starter or contributor. Two = Pro-Bowl or great starter. Also I'll only use Rounds 1-3 as data. I've erred on the side of caution to avoid disagreements. For example I gave Okung and Tate a 1 grade even though I could probably argue they are a 2. I won't grade 2013 since neither Christine Michael or Jordan Hill have had a chance to contribute. We can go over this again next year if you like.

2010
Russell Okung - 1
Earl Thomas - 2
Golden Tate - 1

2011
James Carpenter - 0
John Moffitt - 0

2012
Bruce Irvin - 1
Bobby Wagner - 2
Russell Wilson - 2

So we've had 8 picks. Total score = 9. Average score = 1.125 Only 2 of 8 picks in Rounds 1-3 have been busts (zero grade) which is only 25%. 3 of 8 were given good grades and 3 more given the highest possible grade. And again - this is a conservative grading system in order to eliminate bias.

What team do you think has done the best job of drafting since 2010? 49ers? Patriots? Ravens? Feel free to use their 2010-2012 draft classes and do the same experiment. I think you'll find that the Seahawks draft just as well as the best teams in the NFL when it comes to finding great players in Rounds 1-3.

For the record I would have given Carpenter a 1 (He's been an average starter at times) and I would have given Tate & Okung a 2 which would have made our score even more impressive. Even if you just use Rd 1 to base your angst - Okung, Thomas, Irvin and Carpenter represent a normal success to failure ratio for the 1st Round. When you consider that Carpenter was our biggest error - that draft was pretty average in terms of mid-to-late first round talent in general.
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Bigjoe0075


Joined: 18 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its very interesting how they drafted. They obviously see potential in everyone of there picks. I don't think anyone me or NFL experts should grade drafts right off the bat. I mean they have been slamming the seahawks picks for years and all Carroll does is win with these draft day losers.

Personally I liked other prospects more than some of the guys we got. But I'm not a professional scout. I don't spend 60-80 hours a week breaking down every game. I trust in the FO and I highly doubt these guys would sabotage a pick. And I'm sure Seattle doesn't feel they wasted an entire draft. But I'm also 100% positive they wish they could of had some players slide to them.

We have one of the best coaching staff from top to bottom. Every position coach and assistant is pretty darn good. I would like to see these guys come preseason. I'm stoked.
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sirensong


Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 1152
Location: Vancouver BC
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SwiftTexan wrote:
sirensong wrote:
Meeker wrote:
NFL_Announcer wrote:
The worst was the Carpenter draft. I knew Carpenter/Moffit and Harper would all bust, god that draft was pathetic.


Harper wasn't in that draft...?

That draft was pathetic? You do know the draft goes past the first couple rounds, right? Holy crap, that draft was great.


Sure we hit on a monster late round gem. Maxwell, Wright and Smith are all nice players.

But 3 of our 1st 4 picks were complete disasters. We cant continue to throw away high picks and expect to get Sherman or Chancellor every year. The odds not matter how good you are will catch up.

We should still do what we do in those rounds and we do that better than anyone. But our early round picks deserve every single bit of questioning that they get at this point. We've consistently drafted questionably in the early rounds.


Let's see about that... I assume you're referring just to the Pete Carroll era so we'll start in 2010. I'll grade them on a simple 0-2 scale. Zero = complete bust. One = Average starter or contributor. Two = Pro-Bowl or great starter. Also I'll only use Rounds 1-3 as data. I've erred on the side of caution to avoid disagreements. For example I gave Okung and Tate a 1 grade even though I could probably argue they are a 2. I won't grade 2013 since neither Christine Michael or Jordan Hill have had a chance to contribute. We can go over this again next year if you like.

2010
Russell Okung - 1
Earl Thomas - 2
Golden Tate - 1

2011
James Carpenter - 0
John Moffitt - 0

2012
Bruce Irvin - 1
Bobby Wagner - 2
Russell Wilson - 2

So we've had 8 picks. Total score = 9. Average score = 1.125 Only 2 of 8 picks in Rounds 1-3 have been busts (zero grade) which is only 25%. 3 of 8 were given good grades and 3 more given the highest possible grade. And again - this is a conservative grading system in order to eliminate bias.

What team do you think has done the best job of drafting since 2010? 49ers? Patriots? Ravens? Feel free to use their 2010-2012 draft classes and do the same experiment. I think you'll find that the Seahawks draft just as well as the best teams in the NFL when it comes to finding great players in Rounds 1-3.

For the record I would have given Carpenter a 1 (He's been an average starter at times) and I would have given Tate & Okung a 2 which would have made our score even more impressive. Even if you just use Rd 1 to base your angst - Okung, Thomas, Irvin and Carpenter represent a normal success to failure ratio for the 1st Round. When you consider that Carpenter was our biggest error - that draft was pretty average in terms of mid-to-late first round talent in general.


Were not drafting in the teens or higher now, were (hopefully) drafting in the tail end of the 1st regularly and we havent been able to do that.
Bruce isn't a 1 yet. He hasnt show he can start consistently and be productive. Hes purely a rotational player who I consider a miss after this past season, but has a chance to be very productive yet.

Okung was a no brainer, Thomas was a great but not difficult pick to make. Tate was a ok pick that gave us some production. But Veldheer, Brandon Spikes, Jon Asamoah, Eric Decker, NaVarro Bowman, Jimmy Graham, it could have been MUCH better.

Wagner, Wilson absolutely no arguments with.

You also didnt include Michael or Hill if were going to include Wagz and Wilson. 2 guys who gave us ZERO last year and were big reaches.

I also care more about the what they've done in the last 2 years than 5 years ago.

Michael, Hill, Richardson, and Britt. Ill reserve complete judgement as they are all new to the league. But these last 2 drafts don't look promising at all.

XSF is going to give me nightmares.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How anyone can knock Michael right now is beyond me. Did you expect him to come in and be the 2nd best RB in the NFL his first year in the league? If the answer is no then you need to take a step back and wait
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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Sacks98


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael was not a reach he just wasn't a need.
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Pie Romania


Joined: 23 Aug 2012
Posts: 1828
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigjoe0075 wrote:
Its very interesting how they drafted. They obviously see potential in everyone of there picks. I don't think anyone me or NFL experts should grade drafts right off the bat. I mean they have been slamming the seahawks picks for years and all Carroll does is win with these draft day losers.

Personally I liked other prospects more than some of the guys we got. But I'm not a professional scout. I don't spend 60-80 hours a week breaking down every game. I trust in the FO and I highly doubt these guys would sabotage a pick. And I'm sure Seattle doesn't feel they wasted an entire draft. But I'm also 100% positive they wish they could of had some players slide to them.

We have one of the best coaching staff from top to bottom. Every position coach and assistant is pretty darn good. I would like to see these guys come preseason. I'm stoked.


Spot on. 100% Agreed. Every year people complain.

Hell, I was one of them early on in the Pete/John era. They've accomplished something that no one else in the past with this organization has done in Seattle and that's win it all. Yes, many of their picks are head scratchers to 99.99% of the population, but then, more often than not, they end up looking like geniuses. I may not have been "happy" skipping over some players the last few days, but I now trust these guys to make the right moves to get guys they believe will keep this team contending for the forseeable future. This draft screams that they were looking for athletes that might be a little rough around the edges, but that they can mold into exactly what they're wanting at certain positions. Anyone throwing a fit right now looks like they haven't been a Seahawks fan for very long. If you didn't expect them to draft outside the box, you're either ignorant or a masochist. Give it a little time and I bet at least a few guys will grow on you (not speaking to anyone directly, just generalizing). We all want the same thing here and that's to win. Complaining isn't going to change a thing, so may as well just hope the Seahawks prove the doubters wrong....again.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sacks98 wrote:
Michael was not a reach he just wasn't a need.
I thought it was clear by now that we draft players for a future need, not just immediate ones.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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Sacks98


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
Sacks98 wrote:
Michael was not a reach he just wasn't a need.
I thought it was clear by now that we draft players for a future need, not just immediate ones.


I hope that didn't come off as a critique because i am fine with Schneider drafting a player that he thinks is BPA even if he doesn't play year one then a need that he thinks will be average or bust.
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