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Sessy


Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 78
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Sessy wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
We lost the nucleus of elite players and now we're just attempting to create a new nucleus of average players and so far it's working out marvelously, right?


"So far" as in one season after a SB win? A SB I guess you credit to how well Lewis, Reed, Suggs and Ngata played that year? Only Ngata was able to function as a high level player and even he was banged up this year.

If you want to want to criticize the FO you can just talk about the picks you don't like instead of making up some terrible historical account of how we've been a terrible team.

Just stick to telling us why these picks sucked and why the Seahawks draft picks will be future all-pros.


When you have a strong nucleus of elite players to build a team around, then going BPA is great because it allows you to build around that nucleus. Who is our nucleus right now on offense or defense? Flacco/Torrey/Pitta and then Suggs/Ngata/Daryl Smith?


Are you trying to say we don't have a nucleus of good players? While the guys you mentioned are good players, we have other guys that are just as good if not better. Yanda and Monroe are great o-lineman, and they'll be paired up with 2 other decent lineman in Zuttah and KO (barring injury). I fully expect the Ravens to grab a veteran RT too, along the lines of a Bryant McKinney/Willie Anderson.

On D we have a great CB tandem, combined with what I think is one of the best front 7's in the game. We DO have the nucleus, just like we had when we won 2 years ago.


We have good players, but we don't have players you build your team around like we had with Ray and Ed.


I wouldn't exactly call Ray and Ed "build around me" type of guys in 2012. In 2004, sure, but not when we won our last Superbowl. In fact, Ray got eaten alive vs the Patriots and 49ers. He was seriously picked on. You can obviously see how great Ed Reed was last season. Face it, I love those two guys (Ed is like my favorite player ever), but they were more liability than they were all stars towards the end. Great for the lockerroom, sure, great for on the field, lol no.
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sp6488


Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 8415
Location: MD
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sessy wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Sessy wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
We lost the nucleus of elite players and now we're just attempting to create a new nucleus of average players and so far it's working out marvelously, right?


"So far" as in one season after a SB win? A SB I guess you credit to how well Lewis, Reed, Suggs and Ngata played that year? Only Ngata was able to function as a high level player and even he was banged up this year.

If you want to want to criticize the FO you can just talk about the picks you don't like instead of making up some terrible historical account of how we've been a terrible team.

Just stick to telling us why these picks sucked and why the Seahawks draft picks will be future all-pros.


When you have a strong nucleus of elite players to build a team around, then going BPA is great because it allows you to build around that nucleus. Who is our nucleus right now on offense or defense? Flacco/Torrey/Pitta and then Suggs/Ngata/Daryl Smith?


Are you trying to say we don't have a nucleus of good players? While the guys you mentioned are good players, we have other guys that are just as good if not better. Yanda and Monroe are great o-lineman, and they'll be paired up with 2 other decent lineman in Zuttah and KO (barring injury). I fully expect the Ravens to grab a veteran RT too, along the lines of a Bryant McKinney/Willie Anderson.

On D we have a great CB tandem, combined with what I think is one of the best front 7's in the game. We DO have the nucleus, just like we had when we won 2 years ago.


We have good players, but we don't have players you build your team around like we had with Ray and Ed.


I wouldn't exactly call Ray and Ed "build around me" type of guys in 2012. In 2004, sure, but not when we won our last Superbowl. In fact, Ray got eaten alive vs the Patriots and 49ers. He was seriously picked on. You can obviously see how great Ed Reed was last season. Face it, I love those two guys (Ed is like my favorite player ever), but they were more liability than they were all stars towards the end. Great for the lockerroom, sure, great for on the field, lol no.


The other thing is that setting the standard at two future walk-in first ballot hall of famers is pretty ridiculous standards.
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BareYourTeeth


Joined: 29 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edit.
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2000WORLD CHAMPIONS2012
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There you guys go. James Hurst as an UDFA.
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RavensTillIDie


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really happy about Hurst, but also a bit surprised that Brandon Coleman still hasn't been picked up by anyone. I'm betting he has options just because you won't find too many 6'6'' receivers in UDFA, but maybe (hopefully) the Ravens are one of the teams still interested in bringing him into camp?
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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of our UDFA Jamie Meder(Ashland)DT

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jamie-meder-vs-american-nflpa-game-2013/

Only the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl but he's dominating these dudes.
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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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Location: Maryland
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heard you guys signed Dustin Wharton, safety out of Georgetown. Local kid who graduated with my sister.
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wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 6474
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
One of our UDFA Jamie Meder(Ashland)DT

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jamie-meder-vs-american-nflpa-game-2013/

Only the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl but he's dominating these dudes.


A DT that signs with us either doesn't have many options or just wasn't paying attention.
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diamondbull424


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Joined: 02 Dec 2007
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Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
One of our UDFA Jamie Meder(Ashland)DT

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jamie-meder-vs-american-nflpa-game-2013/

Only the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl but he's dominating these dudes.


A DT that signs with us either doesn't have many options or just wasn't paying attention.

That was my first thought as well... but then I thought about it again. The Ravens have one of the better DL coaches in the league and one of the best training facilities in the league. So you go to the Ravens and sure you probably won't see the field in any capacity for your first 2-3 years, but if you can just make the practice squad... you've got 3 years to develop... in which time the DL space should've cleared out... and with the Ravens track record of getting UDFAs a lot of money on their 2nd contract, it's probably an optimal situation.

Obviously if you're looking for an immediate starting spot, you're probably SOL, but in two years time, Canty will be gone and there's a solid chance that Ngata will be gone as well. So now a guy like Jamie Meder has developed and could see some playing time on a strong defense. That will earn him more money than if he immediately starts on a bad defense, looks bad, and then sees minimal opportunities from that point out. Signing with the Ravens could be about a long game. It'll be competitive, but the prestige and rewards are greater if you can make it through.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
Sessy wrote:

Are you trying to say we don't have a nucleus of good players? While the guys you mentioned are good players, we have other guys that are just as good if not better. Yanda and Monroe are great o-lineman, and they'll be paired up with 2 other decent lineman in Zuttah and KO (barring injury). I fully expect the Ravens to grab a veteran RT too, along the lines of a Bryant McKinney/Willie Anderson.

On D we have a great CB tandem, combined with what I think is one of the best front 7's in the game. We DO have the nucleus, just like we had when we won 2 years ago.


We have good players, but we don't have players you build your team around like we had with Ray and Ed.

I'm late to this party, but I tend to disagree.

For our 1st SB some of our core drafted talents were:
Jonathan Ogden, Ray Lewis, Chris McAlister, Jamal Lewis, Duane Starks, Peter Boulware, Jermaine Lewis

For our 2nd SB some of our core drafted talents were:
Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Terrell Suggs, Haloti Ngata, Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, Dennis Pitta, Torrey Smith, Marshal Yanda

As we move into the future, the core talent for our team looks to be:
Joe Flacco, Torrey Smith, Ladarius Webb, Jimmie Smith, CJ Mosley, Arthur Brown, Matt Elam, Timmy Jernigan, Terrence Brooks, Kelechi Osemele

Now sure not all of the above names listed have proven to be talents, but they are/were high drafted talents. There's a lot more talented young players like Brent Urban and Michael Campanaro who could also figure prominently into the future of the team. Eugene Monroe is a young player we traded for that will be in the core of our talents.

So we definitely have a talented core of players. They just need to prove their talent at this point. But it's not like we don't have value in place to be nice hits. I think by the end of the 2014 season we'll know a lot more about what we have as core talents. Either Webb will prove to be back or he won't. Either Jimmie will prove to advance or regress. Bernard Pierce or Lorenzo Talioferra will prove to be a legitimate back (LT is more durable, so my money is on him), etc.

I think our core defense looks to be pretty darn nasty anyway you slice it. We're stacked at LB, DL, and we have some talented DB options. We have some aging pass rushers, but that's probably the only "weakness" there is. We're built to really shutdown offenses moving forward... and defense's win championships.
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:

We have good players, but we don't have players you build your team around like we had with Ray and Ed.


Jeez, Ozzie, you haven't drafted guys who are the GOAT at their positions since 2003. Wth are you doing? We can't build a team without them!
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Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 2025
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
DontTazeMeBro wrote:
One of our UDFA Jamie Meder(Ashland)DT

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jamie-meder-vs-american-nflpa-game-2013/

Only the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl but he's dominating these dudes.


A DT that signs with us either doesn't have many options or just wasn't paying attention.


Pretty much. And yet four of the UDFAs the Ravens brought in a D-line guys.

I don't see how any of them have a shot, when they have Ngata, Canty, Williams, Lewis-Moore, Tyson, Cody, Jernigan and Urban ahead of them. Yes, Cody probably gets cut, but that still leaves seven guys to get amongst.

If the Ravens do go 4-3, then you have to add McPhee and Upshaw to that list as well.
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diamondbull424


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^

I don't think many UDFAs are going to make a 53 man roster. So at that point you've got to consider coaching and ability to improve. Being on the Ravens practice squad is one of the best learning opportunities in the league. Just because of our track record of producing talented UDFAs that make money on their 2nd contracts.

You could probably only throw in a few other teams with similar track records. Thus I think it makes sense to want to join a stacked DL with the thinking that just a couple years down the road you could become a valuable rotation lineman on a top defense.

Though I get what you're saying, if you've got a chance to start... most people are going to take it. I equate the situation to being a senior in or just graduating college... and one small/medium sized company offers you a paid internship and a prestigious company offers you an unpaid internship. Sure getting the paid internship is definitely awesome, but if the unpaid internship with the prestigious company turns into a job offer... you're suddenly sitting pretty.

So maybe you could see an opportunity to start with the Raiders, but being on the Ravens practice squad could bare good fruit a little later on.
==========

That said, my initial reason for responding wasn't to talk about the UDFA choices. Rather our DL depth.

You're right, we do have so many bodies there. But we have to remember that Harbaugh said he's going to run a training camp like no other one he's run before. We have few aged veterans on the team, but the few that we have tend to be on the defense, specifically the DL. I'm sure the young bodies will be there to help keep the veterans fresh but the competition fierce.

What's more, I think with how stacked the line is and with a post June 1st release saving of $2.5M, Chris Canty being release is a fairly strong possibility. He's got the cap hit and the durability concerns that he brings to the table. DeAngelo Tyson was proving to have similar impact towards the end of the season as Canty and make much less money. And you've got to think that Williams, Jernigan, Urban, and Ngata (of course) are completely safe.

I think KLM earned his redshirt and most likely will be back, but I don't think he's completely safe. The team only spent a 6th round pick on him a year ago... he wouldn't be the first 6th round pick to not make the team the following season.

So I could definitely see us cutting that DL list down to 5 players if other defensive positions outplay the DL talent. More likely I think it'll be 6... since I think we'll err on the side of keeping KLM, but if one of those UDFA linebackers outplay KLM, then I definitely don't see us keeping him on for another year to develop. Though we might try and sneak him onto the practice squad.
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Integrity


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While he is completely safe from being released, there is a possibility that Haloti Ngata gets traded. Coming into this year, the two biggest cap numbers belonged to Suggs and Ngata. Suggs restructured, Ngata refused. Its also possible that the Ravens are just seeking leverage in contract negotiations with him by bringing in so many DTs.
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Mancunian Raven


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Integrity wrote:
While he is completely safe from being released, there is a possibility that Haloti Ngata gets traded. Coming into this year, the two biggest cap numbers belonged to Suggs and Ngata. Suggs restructured, Ngata refused. Its also possible that the Ravens are just seeking leverage in contract negotiations with him by bringing in so many DTs.


If they could get a team ready to take that cap hit, and if one or more of the young guys stepped up and showed they can even come close to filling his boots, then I wouldn't be dead set against it.

I'm hopeful that KLM shows up to TC completely healthy a ready to go, because I think he can be an impact player.
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