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cpanthers178990


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Who is more important to build around? Reply with quote




Superman?







Or Clark Kent?





Let's just say Davey G decides on going defense early and often again. How upset would you really be? Some top CB, DE, OLB, and DT will still be available. Depending on how high we view Ward potentially S. It's not hard to tell what our actually needs are(WR,OT,CB), they are so glaring even other teams can see the weakness. However, conventional wisdom will tell you we should work on our offense because it was worse than our defense last year, but what if instead of lifting our offense, we put our defense on another level? Example,what if Gettleman viewed Luke as being out to get more out of Greg Hardy on defense more than Cam Newton was able to get out of Olsen on offense last year? Do you think Gettleman could have aspirations of having an immovable defense? Defense wins championships, we saw that last year, it was almost painful to watch. So I'm going to put you in Dave Gettleman shoes. You have two superstars on your team, both are the leader on their side of the ball. Whom do you choose to accentuate their ability and therefore the ability of everyone around them?



For me it's hard to argue Leaving Cam on an Island, but having a defense that could potentially be better than Seattle was last year could be the ticket to the Superbowl.
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burnoutonme


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be particularly happy about drafting defense, but I'm sure I'd change my tune if they ended up being a stud. The Luke pick was seen as a luxury at the time, but that turned out pretty well, I dare say...haha.

The difference between us and Seattle is the offensive line and running back position. We don't have an offensive tackle on the roster that has proven reliable enough to start, in my opinion. The jury is still out on our offensive guards - Silatolu flashed potential at times, but he still wasn't a consistently imposing force and he's coming off a shredded knee. I'm not going to even pretend to know who'll end up our starting RG.

As far as running backs are concerned, Stewart may never play again (this is hyperbolic, but you get the point) and Williams has been perennially declining since 2008. Barner is a scat back. I'd love to see Tolbert given more carries, but he's still not a true feature back.

I gotta be honest with you man, if our offensive line had Gross and Wharton back, I'd be a little more comfortable, but we're in trouble up front. I think we'll do well to get back to the level of offense we played at last year, and that's not a particularly exciting notion. And if our offense can't stay on the field, then our defense suffers.
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Impulser12000


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

our d is awesome and while it dominates it can improve. That bring said you need to score points to win and it doesn't matter if our D pitches a shutout if our O can't score. 0-0-16 doesn't get you into the playoffs. also if our O is constantly striking out then our D will inevitably tire out (even the best D's tire out if the O if 3 and outing every time)
and to do that we need an o line and wr. I don't mind spending later picks on the D but our O has regressed and they weren't gangbusters last year.
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Panthers11


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You build around the QB. But we don't have to make that decision. We are lucky to have both.
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cpanthers178990


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear what everyone is saying, however if we were to improve our D to allowing only 13 PPG then logically all we have to do is score 14 points to win games. Our receivers this year statistically are going to be able to fill our quota from last season. Not to mention all the camp cuts that could bolster our offensive line.


I don't really want to go defense either but if it could transform our defense to the next level then I would be all for it.

However my dream draft is still a double down of OTs.
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Moody


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cpanthers178990 wrote:
I hear what everyone is saying, however if we were to improve our D to allowing only 13 PPG then logically all we have to do is score 14 points to win games. Our receivers this year statistically are going to be able to fill our quota from last season. Not to mention all the camp cuts that could bolster our offensive line.


I don't really want to go defense either but if it could transform our defense to the next level then I would be all for it.

However my dream draft is still a double down of OTs.


That 13ppg is an average of the regular season against 50% bad teams.

We will need Cam to make plays, like we needed against SF and he didn't have the help on the OL or the WRs. What if Cam throws a pick 6 because he's getting demolished?

Not saying you're wrong, but in this league, it only takes two plays that go wrong and the plan of holding teams to an insanely low PPG is gone.


They filled into the losses, but we need real talent around Cam. It'll be pretty unfair if they don't give him anything while asking everything.

Impulser12000 wrote:
our d is awesome and while it dominates it can improve. That bring said you need to score points to win and it doesn't matter if our D pitches a shutout if our O can't score. 0-0-16 doesn't get you into the playoffs. also if our O is constantly striking out then our D will inevitably tire out (even the best D's tire out if the O if 3 and outing every time)
and to do that we need an o line and wr. I don't mind spending later picks on the D but our O has regressed and they weren't gangbusters last year.


This is a good point.

If you're a good team you don't try to win with such a tiny margin of error. Riverboat Ron's luck will even out, it always does.

All said, I'd rather be a balanced team than anything. I'd target giving up 15 and scoring 26.
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cpanthers178990


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moody wrote:
cpanthers178990 wrote:
I hear what everyone is saying, however if we were to improve our D to allowing only 13 PPG then logically all we have to do is score 14 points to win games. Our receivers this year statistically are going to be able to fill our quota from last season. Not to mention all the camp cuts that could bolster our offensive line.


I don't really want to go defense either but if it could transform our defense to the next level then I would be all for it.

However my dream draft is still a double down of OTs.


That 13ppg is an average of the regular season against 50% bad teams.

We will need Cam to make plays, like we needed against SF and he didn't have the help on the OL or the WRs. What if Cam throws a pick 6 because he's getting demolished?

Not saying you're wrong, but in this league, it only takes two plays that go wrong and the plan of holding teams to an insanely low PPG is gone.


They filled into the losses, but we need real talent around Cam. It'll be pretty unfair if they don't give him anything while asking everything.

Impulser12000 wrote:
our d is awesome and while it dominates it can improve. That bring said you need to score points to win and it doesn't matter if our D pitches a shutout if our O can't score. 0-0-16 doesn't get you into the playoffs. also if our O is constantly striking out then our D will inevitably tire out (even the best D's tire out if the O if 3 and outing every time)
and to do that we need an o line and wr. I don't mind spending later picks on the D but our O has regressed and they weren't gangbusters last year.


This is a good point.

If you're a good team you don't try to win with such a tiny margin of error. Riverboat Ron's luck will even out, it always does.

All said, I'd rather be a balanced team than anything. I'd target giving up 15 and scoring 26.




That's not a balanced team, that is a dominate team. Sice 2000 there has only been one team that has been able to actually fill those ppg quotas.


The 2013 Seattle Seahawks - Superbowl Champs

The next two closet were the 2012 Seahawks, who went on to win the Superbowl the following year, and the 2002 Eagles who, went on to go to the superbowl the following season.


But one thing stayed true, the team with the best Defense always made the postseason.

even way back in 05 when the bears were giving up just over 12 points a game, even though there offense could only muster up 16 points a game they still went to the superbowl.


I think they even said in the superbowl this past year that when the number one defense and number one offense played each other that 8 or 9 out of 10 times the number one defense has won.



We had the worst offensive output out of any team that made the Playoffs last year. It would take quite a draft to get our O up to 26 PPG this season, more than likely there is not a chance we come close to that. However getting our defense to 13 PPG might only take one or two people, and would anyone on this board doubt our chances if on offense we scored 20 PPG? Which would still be a regression from an offensive standpoint over 2 PPG less, butldn on average we would be winning every game by a touchdown. Like I said earlier, even a Rex Grossman led offense can muster up 16 points a game. We don't have Rex, we have Cam. Even with the offensive weapons that Cam has and even with the line we have do you think Cam couldn't lead us to 20PPG?
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cpanthers178990


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/6228/panthers-mailbag-and-with-the-28th-pick

Quote:
So I'm going with Missouri defensive end Kony Ealy if he slips to here.



If anyone is interested our team reporter for ESPN, David Newton, believes Kony Ealy will be the pick.
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Impulser12000


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cpanthers178990 wrote:
Moody wrote:
cpanthers178990 wrote:
I hear what everyone is saying, however if we were to improve our D to allowing only 13 PPG then logically all we have to do is score 14 points to win games. Our receivers this year statistically are going to be able to fill our quota from last season. Not to mention all the camp cuts that could bolster our offensive line.


I don't really want to go defense either but if it could transform our defense to the next level then I would be all for it.

However my dream draft is still a double down of OTs.


That 13ppg is an average of the regular season against 50% bad teams.

We will need Cam to make plays, like we needed against SF and he didn't have the help on the OL or the WRs. What if Cam throws a pick 6 because he's getting demolished?

Not saying you're wrong, but in this league, it only takes two plays that go wrong and the plan of holding teams to an insanely low PPG is gone.


They filled into the losses, but we need real talent around Cam. It'll be pretty unfair if they don't give him anything while asking everything.

Impulser12000 wrote:
our d is awesome and while it dominates it can improve. That bring said you need to score points to win and it doesn't matter if our D pitches a shutout if our O can't score. 0-0-16 doesn't get you into the playoffs. also if our O is constantly striking out then our D will inevitably tire out (even the best D's tire out if the O if 3 and outing every time)
and to do that we need an o line and wr. I don't mind spending later picks on the D but our O has regressed and they weren't gangbusters last year.


This is a good point.

If you're a good team you don't try to win with such a tiny margin of error. Riverboat Ron's luck will even out, it always does.

All said, I'd rather be a balanced team than anything. I'd target giving up 15 and scoring 26.




That's not a balanced team, that is a dominate team. Sice 2000 there has only been one team that has been able to actually fill those ppg quotas.


The 2013 Seattle Seahawks - Superbowl Champs

The next two closet were the 2012 Seahawks, who went on to win the Superbowl the following year, and the 2002 Eagles who, went on to go to the superbowl the following season.


But one thing stayed true, the team with the best Defense always made the postseason.

even way back in 05 when the bears were giving up just over 12 points a game, even though there offense could only muster up 16 points a game they still went to the superbowl.


I think they even said in the superbowl this past year that when the number one defense and number one offense played each other that 8 or 9 out of 10 times the number one defense has won.



We had the worst offensive output out of any team that made the Playoffs last year. It would take quite a draft to get our O up to 26 PPG this season, more than likely there is not a chance we come close to that. However getting our defense to 13 PPG might only take one or two people, and would anyone on this board doubt our chances if on offense we scored 20 PPG? Which would still be a regression from an offensive standpoint over 2 PPG less, butldn on average we would be winning every game by a touchdown. Like I said earlier, even a Rex Grossman led offense can muster up 16 points a game. We don't have Rex, we have Cam. Even with the offensive weapons that Cam has and even with the line we have do you think Cam couldn't lead us to 20PPG?


last year we avg 22.87 ppg but this year's O is worse. it was buoyed by a couple blowout wins vs. the bucs, Vikings and giants. however, I actually think our D will be better already this year. I don't think we lost much. our O on the other needs improvement plain and simple.
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cpanthers178990


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Impulser12000 wrote:


last year we avg 22.87 ppg but this year's O is worse. it was buoyed by a couple blowout wins vs. the bucs, Vikings and giants. however, I actually think our D will be better already this year. I don't think we lost much. our O on the other needs improvement plain and simple.




This is the problem. Everybody knows that when building a team you have to start in the draft, we are in a position were we could use an upgrade on literally almost every position on offense. If we start building on offense, we won't revert back to square one, however we will than be in a process of reloading a team, from an offensive standpoint. Which realistically will take us out of superbowl contention. Piecing together an offense will be like our pieced secondary of last year, good, but not great. So if at most our new expectations would be to hope to achieve the production of last years offense, we are going to be in the same boat as last year. However if we are able to compensate for our offense with an exemplary defense we are more likely to be in contention for the superbowl next year.
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ericr0319


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you dont build a team around a MLB
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Panthers11


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Hawks defense was their strong point, but they have put weapons and a nice line around Wilson. We have yet to do that with Cam.
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cpanthers178990


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericr0319 wrote:
you dont build a team around a MLB

Living in Maryland I can tell you first hand how many times Ray Lewis was given pieces around him to succeed, and Look where their success got them. I'm actually not sure Ozzie has ever drafted a receiver in the first either... point being, Ray and that defense led that led them to their sustained success.



Sounds like gentleman better be prepare for some tomatoes being thrown his way if he takes a defensive player.
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ericr0319


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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cpanthers178990 wrote:
ericr0319 wrote:
you dont build a team around a MLB

Living in Maryland I can tell you first hand how many times Ray Lewis was given pieces around him to succeed, and Look where their success got them. I'm actually not sure Ozzie has ever drafted a receiver in the first either... point being, Ray and that defense led that led them to their sustained success.



Sounds like gentleman better be prepare for some tomatoes being thrown his way if he takes a defensive player.

And it didnt really work until Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, Torrey Smith were all drafted, and Boldin and Jones were brought in. Trust me I love much of our defense and I Luke never leaves. But if we are going to win a SB we need to give Cam the pieces to succeed. and this year we arent going to win a super bowl, at least I dont see us doing so. I want us to go OT OT in 1 and 2. I like the double dip method if you need it.
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cpanthers178990


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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericr0319 wrote:
cpanthers178990 wrote:
ericr0319 wrote:
you dont build a team around a MLB

Living in Maryland I can tell you first hand how many times Ray Lewis was given pieces around him to succeed, and Look where their success got them. I'm actually not sure Ozzie has ever drafted a receiver in the first either... point being, Ray and that defense led that led them to their sustained success.



Sounds like gentleman better be prepare for some tomatoes being thrown his way if he takes a defensive player.

And it didnt really work until Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, Torrey Smith were all drafted, and Boldin and Jones were brought in. Trust me I love much of our defense and I Luke never leaves. But if we are going to win a SB we need to give Cam the pieces to succeed. and this year we arent going to win a super bowl, at least I dont see us doing so. I want us to go OT OT in 1 and 2. I like the double dip method if you need it.






Not true sir, the amount of success, plus the superbowl ring he acquired before they arrived speaks for itself. The next year thr Patriots dynasty started, I don't know how long you've been watching football but Tom wasn't the Tom he is today. Teddy and that patriots D elevated them to championship material. In fact, the Rams team they faced, was quite literally named 'the greatest show on turf'. They had a HoF offense and couldn't get the job done against a strong defense. The following year the Bucs and Brooks, Sapp and that defense that won a superbowl. Brad Johnson might have been QBing that team? Actually don't remember. Anyway, after the Patriots the Steelers defense led them to the superbowl. in 06 Peyton freaking Manning was finally able to win a Superbowl, he was always surrounded by incredible weapons, yet he was given the 2nd best scoring defense that year and he won the superbowl. 07 Do i even need to remind you about that Patriots offense Vs The Giants D?





Listen, I'm not saying anything that hurts the team and I'm not trying to attack you man but defense wins championships, I could go on literally forever and show you facts, offenses could not be more overratted. Yes you have to score points to win but when you have a defense who can shut down an offense completely, you give yourself an opportunity to win the game. That was a big part of our game last year, we couldn't get into shootouts with teams we are simply not built that way, nor logically should you build your team that way, but when we were able to hold the opposing offense to only being one score last year we let Cam be Cam and comeback and win it for us.





The greatest offense of all time got smashed in the Superbowl.(Peyton Manning)


The greatest defense of all time smashed in the Superbowl.(Ray Lewis)




Both of these men had every advantage on their side of the football to help them succeed. Only one did.
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