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How many holes do we really have?
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SuhPLEX


Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 1042
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Detroitlions703 wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
Calvin-Stafford wrote:
bigc421 wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
Holes and needs are 2 different things.

And the OP is right.

In 2009, our roster was filled with holes.

It has been getting better and better since then because Mayhew is doing a great job.

Back then guys we let go were promptly out of the league; thats not the case anymore.

Theres no more Bryant Johnsons', Jonathan Wades, Stephen Petermans, guys who have no business starting, being depended on to do so.


So true, perfect example is Rob. Sims. Back then a guy who was arguable considered our most reliable lineman is not on the short list of guys looking to replace.

This is why I have no idea why some people want to fire Mayhew. He's missed on a few, but he's also scored big on a few prospects. He's not a bad GM IMO.


Because he didn't build the team the way they wanted. Some fans think they know better than the professionals who actually do this for a living. Remember people wanting us to draft Aaron Curry #1 overall? How about moving down in that draft for Sanchez or Freeman? They are both now backups in the NFC East. I remember DeAndre Levy being a polarizing pick as well.


Lets not pretend he hasnt had his misses either.

Moving up for Best with his concussion issues, his wide receiver woes, 2nd round picks sucking and basically getting nothing out of the whole 2011 draft class.

Yes he is a good GM and lets hope he continues to do well but he has had many misses as well.

Who doesn't?
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I honestly wouldn't be upset if we draft 3 TE's

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RIP CITY


Joined: 21 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never heard anyone on this board say that the Lions should fire Mayhew. I definitely wouldn't call him one of the best but he's been pretty good overall.

We need to upgrade the secondary desperately in my opinion. CB/S are our two biggest needs IMO. #3 WR. I'd like to see us add another OLB and DE, we need to find a Center with the potential to take over soon. Kicker is a big hole. I'd definitely prefer an upgrade at TE but that ship has probably sailed, at this for this offseason. Backup QB. Depth at all LB positions, all our backup LB's are basically useless IMO. Really depth across the entire defense with the exception of CB, where we have depth but no sure fire starting caliber players.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RIP CITY wrote:
I've never heard anyone on this board say that the Lions should fire Mayhew. I definitely wouldn't call him one of the best but he's been pretty good overall.

We need to upgrade the secondary desperately in my opinion. CB/S are our two biggest needs IMO. #3 WR. I'd like to see us add another OLB and DE, we need to find a Center with the potential to take over soon. Kicker is a big hole. I'd definitely prefer an upgrade at TE but that ship has probably sailed, at this for this offseason. Backup QB. Depth at all LB positions, all our backup LB's are basically useless IMO. Really depth across the entire defense with the exception of CB, where we have depth but no sure fire starting caliber players.


Good list.

If the opportunity arises a LG or a LT moving Reiff to LG wouldn't hurt either.

The oline was O.K. Last year but some of that performance was as a result of Stafford getting rid of the ball quickly.

Fans seem to forget this is a team that missed the playoffs, AGAIN. There are a number of positions that have O.K. players but still need to be upgraded to make that next step.
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IDOG_det


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't necessarily think the secondary needs to be improved too much, I just think they need to be used right. Houston has been a pretty average to bad corner when not used in press coverage. When used in press coverage he is serviceable as a #1 CB. I'd like to see him used more in press this season. I think Slay can be developed to play well in man or zone, but for a tall, long, fast CB like him, man coverage would be the most effective early on. The same goes for Greenwood. If Mathis, Bentley, or Vaughn are on the field, I'd be more comfortable with zone coverage. I also think Glover Quin and Don Carey will both be good in their roles at FS, and I think Ihedigbo will be exactly what Teryl Austin needs him to be at SS. I'm not sure who'll exactly be his backup, but there are a lot of SS types in this draft that could be had late or even undrafted with the intention to be developed to take over a year or two from now.

I agree that the play of the secondary needs to improve, but I don't think we need new players there to get that improvement. However, I wouldn't be opposed to drafting an impact CB or S for a good value in the high-mid round range.
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Louis Delmas26


Joined: 16 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our needs are as followed:

1.) S (Ioiefoueigfeogb is not a good safety and I've always wanted a playmaking Safety)

2.) WR (Besides Tate and Calvin the rest of our WRs are trash)

3.) OLB (Palmer is serviceable, but it would be nice to have a pass rushing OLB)

4.) C (We need to find Raiola's replacement soon)

5.) K (No explanation needed)

6.) QB (We need to find a young QB to develop behind Stafford and Moore is not the greatest in my opinion)
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theuntouchable


Joined: 15 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amaru0 wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
Holes and needs are 2 different things.

And the OP is right.

In 2009, our roster was filled with holes.

It has been getting better and better since then because Mayhew is doing a great job.

Back then guys we let go were promptly out of the league; thats not the case anymore.

Theres no more Bryant Johnsons', Jonathan Wades, Stephen Petermans, guys who have no business starting, being depended on to do so.


Please never mention Peterman's name again. For several years I was convinced the front office was keeping him around just as a joke to tick me off.... I don't know how he even made a college team, let alone held down an NFL starting job for that long.


When Peterman first played, he actually did quite well. He just never came close to that again.
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Louis Friend


Joined: 07 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Detroitlions703 wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
Calvin-Stafford wrote:
bigc421 wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
Holes and needs are 2 different things.

And the OP is right.

In 2009, our roster was filled with holes.

It has been getting better and better since then because Mayhew is doing a great job.

Back then guys we let go were promptly out of the league; thats not the case anymore.

Theres no more Bryant Johnsons', Jonathan Wades, Stephen Petermans, guys who have no business starting, being depended on to do so.


So true, perfect example is Rob. Sims. Back then a guy who was arguable considered our most reliable lineman is not on the short list of guys looking to replace.

This is why I have no idea why some people want to fire Mayhew. He's missed on a few, but he's also scored big on a few prospects. He's not a bad GM IMO.


Because he didn't build the team the way they wanted. Some fans think they know better than the professionals who actually do this for a living. Remember people wanting us to draft Aaron Curry #1 overall? How about moving down in that draft for Sanchez or Freeman? They are both now backups in the NFC East. I remember DeAndre Levy being a polarizing pick as well.


Lets not pretend he hasnt had his misses either.

Moving up for Best with his concussion issues, his wide receiver woes, 2nd round picks sucking and basically getting nothing out of the whole 2011 draft class.

Yes he is a good GM and lets hope he continues to do well but he has had many misses as well.


I didn't say he's never missed. No GM has never missed. But the Mayhew detractors love to spew the nonsense that he's only hit on the "surefire" picks, the high picks, when even those picks were disputed at the time. Mayhew isn't perfect, I wouldn't even call him elite. But he's done a damn good job of filling this roster full of talent, especially seeing what he inherited.
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DrRay11


Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 3284
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louis Delmas26 wrote:
I think our needs are as followed:

1.) S (Ioiefoueigfeogb is not a good safety and I've always wanted a playmaking Safety)

2.) WR (Besides Tate and Calvin the rest of our WRs are trash)

3.) OLB (Palmer is serviceable, but it would be nice to have a pass rushing OLB)

4.) C (We need to find Raiola's replacement soon)

5.) K (No explanation needed)

6.) QB (We need to find a young QB to develop behind Stafford and Moore is not the greatest in my opinion)


I think CB is in there with OLB / C. We have "serviceable" guys but we need to get better there. Agree with the first two, however.
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Rockcity


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
RIP CITY wrote:
I've never heard anyone on this board say that the Lions should fire Mayhew. I definitely wouldn't call him one of the best but he's been pretty good overall.

We need to upgrade the secondary desperately in my opinion. CB/S are our two biggest needs IMO. #3 WR. I'd like to see us add another OLB and DE, we need to find a Center with the potential to take over soon. Kicker is a big hole. I'd definitely prefer an upgrade at TE but that ship has probably sailed, at this for this offseason. Backup QB. Depth at all LB positions, all our backup LB's are basically useless IMO. Really depth across the entire defense with the exception of CB, where we have depth but no sure fire starting caliber players.


Good list.

If the opportunity arises a LG or a LT moving Reiff to LG wouldn't hurt either.

The oline was O.K. Last year but some of that performance was as a result of Stafford getting rid of the ball quickly.

Fans seem to forget this is a team that missed the playoffs, AGAIN. There are a number of positions that have O.K. players but still need to be upgraded to make that next step.
I may be reading you wrong...but these ok players is exactly why some call for trades up. your against trading up and not ok with ok guys.. not sure what your expecting.you wanna keep our picks for depth that may become ok players..

I don't see how you can have great depth everywhere.even great teams lack in some areas

last yr wr was a hugh issue and mayhew got nothing done..that and coaching imo is why we missed the po.
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockcity wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
RIP CITY wrote:
I've never heard anyone on this board say that the Lions should fire Mayhew. I definitely wouldn't call him one of the best but he's been pretty good overall.

We need to upgrade the secondary desperately in my opinion. CB/S are our two biggest needs IMO. #3 WR. I'd like to see us add another OLB and DE, we need to find a Center with the potential to take over soon. Kicker is a big hole. I'd definitely prefer an upgrade at TE but that ship has probably sailed, at this for this offseason. Backup QB. Depth at all LB positions, all our backup LB's are basically useless IMO. Really depth across the entire defense with the exception of CB, where we have depth but no sure fire starting caliber players.


Good list.

If the opportunity arises a LG or a LT moving Reiff to LG wouldn't hurt either.

The oline was O.K. Last year but some of that performance was as a result of Stafford getting rid of the ball quickly.

Fans seem to forget this is a team that missed the playoffs, AGAIN. There are a number of positions that have O.K. players but still need to be upgraded to make that next step.
I may be reading you wrong...but these ok players is exactly why some call for trades up. your against trading up and not ok with ok guys.. not sure what your expecting.you wanna keep our picks for depth that may become ok players..

I don't see how you can have great depth everywhere.even great teams lack in some areas

last yr wr was a hugh issue and mayhew got nothing done..that and coaching imo is why we missed the po.


Our QB is the reason we didn't make the playoffs.

The Ravens, Giants and and second Vikings games were all winnable with the offensive cast we had.
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detfan782004 wrote:
BlackandBlue wrote:

So Mark Sanchez was a better player last season than Russel Wilson?

Depends on what you are looking for. Breaking down defenses I would take Sanchez no doubt.
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Rockcity


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 1311
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
Rockcity wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
RIP CITY wrote:
I've never heard anyone on this board say that the Lions should fire Mayhew. I definitely wouldn't call him one of the best but he's been pretty good overall.

We need to upgrade the secondary desperately in my opinion. CB/S are our two biggest needs IMO. #3 WR. I'd like to see us add another OLB and DE, we need to find a Center with the potential to take over soon. Kicker is a big hole. I'd definitely prefer an upgrade at TE but that ship has probably sailed, at this for this offseason. Backup QB. Depth at all LB positions, all our backup LB's are basically useless IMO. Really depth across the entire defense with the exception of CB, where we have depth but no sure fire starting caliber players.


Good list.

If the opportunity arises a LG or a LT moving Reiff to LG wouldn't hurt either.

The oline was O.K. Last year but some of that performance was as a result of Stafford getting rid of the ball quickly.

Fans seem to forget this is a team that missed the playoffs, AGAIN. There are a number of positions that have O.K. players but still need to be upgraded to make that next step.
I may be reading you wrong...but these ok players is exactly why some call for trades up. your against trading up and not ok with ok guys.. not sure what your expecting.you wanna keep our picks for depth that may become ok players..

I don't see how you can have great depth everywhere.even great teams lack in some areas

last yr wr was a hugh issue and mayhew got nothing done..that and coaching imo is why we missed the po.


Our QB is the reason we didn't make the playoffs.

The Ravens, Giants and and second Vikings games were all winnable with the offensive cast we had.
Iput that ravens game on the D myself and idt the viking game really mattered bc we had crap for recievers out there but if you wanna be that guy that blames everything on the qb more power to ya
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockcity wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
RIP CITY wrote:
I've never heard anyone on this board say that the Lions should fire Mayhew. I definitely wouldn't call him one of the best but he's been pretty good overall.

We need to upgrade the secondary desperately in my opinion. CB/S are our two biggest needs IMO. #3 WR. I'd like to see us add another OLB and DE, we need to find a Center with the potential to take over soon. Kicker is a big hole. I'd definitely prefer an upgrade at TE but that ship has probably sailed, at this for this offseason. Backup QB. Depth at all LB positions, all our backup LB's are basically useless IMO. Really depth across the entire defense with the exception of CB, where we have depth but no sure fire starting caliber players.


Good list.

If the opportunity arises a LG or a LT moving Reiff to LG wouldn't hurt either.

The oline was O.K. Last year but some of that performance was as a result of Stafford getting rid of the ball quickly.

Fans seem to forget this is a team that missed the playoffs, AGAIN. There are a number of positions that have O.K. players but still need to be upgraded to make that next step.
I may be reading you wrong...but these ok players is exactly why some call for trades up. your against trading up and not ok with ok guys.. not sure what your expecting.you wanna keep our picks for depth that may become ok players..

I don't see how you can have great depth everywhere.even great teams lack in some areas

last yr wr was a hugh issue and mayhew got nothing done..that and coaching imo is why we missed the po.


You can find good players in the 2nd and 3rd round that offer improvement over players currently starting. That's what good GM's do.

The Lions missed the playoffs for a number of reasons.

WR was an issue so they signed Tate so you can't say Mayhew got nothing done.

The shortcomings on the Lions go beyond coaching and wide receiver. There are a number of areas where defensive play can be improved. The kicking game needs improvement. It would be nice to upgrade the offensive line so Stafford has more time and doesn't have to throw the ball so many times before his feet are set.

This team, missed the playoffs AGAIN. Simply upgrading the WR position does little to ensure the playoffs are within reach. You can't lose sight of the fact other teams made improvements in the off season as well. Currently I see no evidence that suggests Detroit will overtake Green Bay or Chicago.

We will simply have to disagree on how the Lions can improve. I simply think its a mistake to trade up for a WR.
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louis Friend wrote:
Calvin-Stafford wrote:
bigc421 wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
Holes and needs are 2 different things.

And the OP is right.

In 2009, our roster was filled with holes.

It has been getting better and better since then because Mayhew is doing a great job.

Back then guys we let go were promptly out of the league; thats not the case anymore.

Theres no more Bryant Johnsons', Jonathan Wades, Stephen Petermans, guys who have no business starting, being depended on to do so.


So true, perfect example is Rob. Sims. Back then a guy who was arguable considered our most reliable lineman is not on the short list of guys looking to replace.

This is why I have no idea why some people want to fire Mayhew. He's missed on a few, but he's also scored big on a few prospects. He's not a bad GM IMO.


Because he didn't build the team the way they wanted. Some fans think they know better than the professionals who actually do this for a living. Remember people wanting us to draft Aaron Curry #1 overall? How about moving down in that draft for Sanchez or Freeman? They are both now backups in the NFC East. I remember DeAndre Levy being a polarizing pick as well.


No one is ever 100% correct on their player assessments including Mayhew and the Lions staff.

Different players will also provide different outcomes depending on coaching, scheme, team mates etc. Stafford has had the benefit of a team that has invested heavily in the offence.

Bottom line is the Lions need to improve in a number of areas and they still haven't become a team that you can feel confident will be in the playoffs yearly.

Numerous fans wanted Schwartz gone prior to last season. They gave him an additional year and ended up firing him anyway.

Mayhew deserves an opportunity to finish what he started but I believe he's on a short leash. You can't have the benefit of high draft selections every year and continue to miss the playoffs.
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Rockcity


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
Rockcity wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
RIP CITY wrote:
I've never heard anyone on this board say that the Lions should fire Mayhew. I definitely wouldn't call him one of the best but he's been pretty good overall.

We need to upgrade the secondary desperately in my opinion. CB/S are our two biggest needs IMO. #3 WR. I'd like to see us add another OLB and DE, we need to find a Center with the potential to take over soon. Kicker is a big hole. I'd definitely prefer an upgrade at TE but that ship has probably sailed, at this for this offseason. Backup QB. Depth at all LB positions, all our backup LB's are basically useless IMO. Really depth across the entire defense with the exception of CB, where we have depth but no sure fire starting caliber players.


Good list.

If the opportunity arises a LG or a LT moving Reiff to LG wouldn't hurt either.

The oline was O.K. Last year but some of that performance was as a result of Stafford getting rid of the ball quickly.

Fans seem to forget this is a team that missed the playoffs, AGAIN. There are a number of positions that have O.K. players but still need to be upgraded to make that next step.
I may be reading you wrong...but these ok players is exactly why some call for trades up. your against trading up and not ok with ok guys.. not sure what your expecting.you wanna keep our picks for depth that may become ok players..

I don't see how you can have great depth everywhere.even great teams lack in some areas

last yr wr was a hugh issue and mayhew got nothing done..that and coaching imo is why we missed the po.


You can find good players in the 2nd and 3rd round that offer improvement over players currently starting. That's what good GM's do.

The Lions missed the playoffs for a number of reasons.

WR was an issue so they signed Tate so you can't say Mayhew got nothing done.

The shortcomings on the Lions go beyond coaching and wide receiver. There are a number of areas where defensive play can be improved. The kicking game needs improvement. It would be nice to upgrade the offensive line so Stafford has more time and doesn't have to throw the ball so many times before his feet are set.

This team, missed the playoffs AGAIN. Simply upgrading the WR position does little to ensure the playoffs are within reach. You can't lose sight of the fact other teams made improvements in the off season as well. Currently I see no evidence that suggests Detroit will overtake Green Bay or Chicago.

We will simply have to disagree on how the Lions can improve. I simply think its a mistake to trade up for a WR.
I don't want to trade up for using a 2rdp no. this draft don't hinge on one trade up. fairley may have some value, we could use our 2ndp to trade back gain more picks all is not lost for your depth..idk but imo these udfa look pretty dam good too

id actually rather trade back if we could and get beckham or ebron if possible myself or see which cb/s available

im not fighting for trade up for watkins but I would be ok depending on cost.
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SuhPLEX


Joined: 03 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:

Mayhew deserves an opportunity to finish what he started but I believe he's on a short leash. You can't have the benefit of high draft selections every year and continue to miss the playoffs.

But Mayhew has built a very talented team, lack of talent is not a significant reason why we missed the playoffs.

I don't understand this perspective... so if we had happened to make the playoffs last year, that would make our team more talented? Was our team in 2011 more talented than last years team because they made the playoffs that year?

I don't think so, there are so many factors that go into making the playoffs (such as poor coaching)
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IDOG_det wrote:
I honestly wouldn't be upset if we draft 3 TE's

TE is the new QB Very Happy
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