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Watkins better than Evans: What am I Missing?
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detroitroar


Joined: 24 Jan 2011
Posts: 4336
Location: USA
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love them both.

Yes, Evans ability to go up and pull down contested grabs isnt matched.

But Watkins' explosiveness is rare for someone who is as polished as a receiver as he is with the hands he has and the strength he runs with.

While I think Evans will be okay at gaining separation, I think Watkins will flat out burn guys.

I see Evans as being a great #2 for us, who may turn into a great #1 when CJ starts to digress.

I think Watkins is a game-changer who will have a great chance at becoming a great #1.

And I cannot stand the argument against Watkins citing the depth of this WR class. There are so many things wrong with that argument its laughable.
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amaru0


Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While numbers can mean quite a bit, it's times like this that I defer to the experts. Jerry Rice was not the fastest (ran a 4.6) or biggest receiver, and he didn't go to the most dominant program, but he was recognized as a talent. Granted, he was the third receiver selected, but even that was high considering the measurables that are so important today. Some guys just have that X factor that allows them to see things differently. Find the soft spot in the zone, know how to attack each CB, make the right route adjustment on the fly, etc.... From what I've seen and heard, Watkins seems to have that. Not to say Evans won't be effective - he's still my pick at 10 if available - but I believe that Watkins could be special. Incidentally, I also believe Ryan Broyles has that X Factor (based on his college production, he kind of has to) and if he can stay healthy he may end up with a pretty solid career.
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detroitroar wrote:
I love them both.

Yes, Evans ability to go up and pull down contested grabs isnt matched.

But Watkins' explosiveness is rare for someone who is as polished as a receiver as he is with the hands he has and the strength he runs with.

While I think Evans will be okay at gaining separation, I think Watkins will flat out burn guys.

I see Evans as being a great #2 for us, who may turn into a great #1 when CJ starts to digress.

I think Watkins is a game-changer who will have a great chance at becoming a great #1.

And I cannot stand the argument against Watkins citing the depth of this WR class. There are so many things wrong with that argument its laughable.


The argument against Watkins is the cost to move up and draft him.

Its nothing against his ability. The cost is not laughable its a significant concern on a team that has so many shortcomings and is always tight against the cap.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
I love them both.

Yes, Evans ability to go up and pull down contested grabs isnt matched.

But Watkins' explosiveness is rare for someone who is as polished as a receiver as he is with the hands he has and the strength he runs with.

While I think Evans will be okay at gaining separation, I think Watkins will flat out burn guys.

I see Evans as being a great #2 for us, who may turn into a great #1 when CJ starts to digress.

I think Watkins is a game-changer who will have a great chance at becoming a great #1.

And I cannot stand the argument against Watkins citing the depth of this WR class. There are so many things wrong with that argument its laughable.


The argument against Watkins is the cost to move up and draft him.

Its nothing against his ability. The cost is not laughable its a significant concern on a team that has so many shortcomings and is always tight against the cap.


The defense will be laughable at expense of overrated WR.

Take a slightly less WR later but improve D

Watkins isn't even that much better then next two if at all
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amaru0


Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
I love them both.

Yes, Evans ability to go up and pull down contested grabs isnt matched.

But Watkins' explosiveness is rare for someone who is as polished as a receiver as he is with the hands he has and the strength he runs with.

While I think Evans will be okay at gaining separation, I think Watkins will flat out burn guys.

I see Evans as being a great #2 for us, who may turn into a great #1 when CJ starts to digress.

I think Watkins is a game-changer who will have a great chance at becoming a great #1.

And I cannot stand the argument against Watkins citing the depth of this WR class. There are so many things wrong with that argument its laughable.


The argument against Watkins is the cost to move up and draft him.

Its nothing against his ability. The cost is not laughable its a significant concern on a team that has so many shortcomings and is always tight against the cap.


The best way to beat the cost argument is to keep it simple. If they think he is worth moving up for, the next step is to determine exactly how much they are willing to give up. No bidding wars, no waiting to see where he falls to. Decide what he's worth to you, and start calling every team the moment they get on the clock and make the offer. Offer the same to the Texans as to the Bills. It's like a draft budget, and as long as you stick to it, you don't feel like you overspent in the heat of the moment. For Watkins, I'd consider something like 1st, 3rd, and 2015 3rd.
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SuhPLEX


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's important to remember that while Evans was able to make make circus like catches, his style of play will get flagged a lot in the NFL. He will have to adjust like Jeffrey adjusted. Does he have the ability to do that? Maybe. For this reason I think Watkins has the higher floor and is worth taking before Evans.
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amaru0 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
detroitroar wrote:
I love them both.

Yes, Evans ability to go up and pull down contested grabs isnt matched.

But Watkins' explosiveness is rare for someone who is as polished as a receiver as he is with the hands he has and the strength he runs with.

While I think Evans will be okay at gaining separation, I think Watkins will flat out burn guys.

I see Evans as being a great #2 for us, who may turn into a great #1 when CJ starts to digress.

I think Watkins is a game-changer who will have a great chance at becoming a great #1.

And I cannot stand the argument against Watkins citing the depth of this WR class. There are so many things wrong with that argument its laughable.


The argument against Watkins is the cost to move up and draft him.

Its nothing against his ability. The cost is not laughable its a significant concern on a team that has so many shortcomings and is always tight against the cap.


The best way to beat the cost argument is to keep it simple. If they think he is worth moving up for, the next step is to determine exactly how much they are willing to give up. No bidding wars, no waiting to see where he falls to. Decide what he's worth to you, and start calling every team the moment they get on the clock and make the offer. Offer the same to the Texans as to the Bills. It's like a draft budget, and as long as you stick to it, you don't feel like you overspent in the heat of the moment. For Watkins, I'd consider something like 1st, 3rd, and 2015 3rd.


I agree about the budget aspect.

I simply feel the Lions can't afford to spend what it would take to move up.

For me, it's like building a house. There's no point in over spending on the roof if it means you have nothing to spend on windows. It defeats the purpose.

Perhaps I over value draft picks but they represent the most efficient, economical way to add talent to a football team.
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Smack


Joined: 06 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not in favor of a trade up for the reasons others have outlined, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

First of all, on the original question, which is "I don't get what's so good about Watkins," here's the best breakdown of him I've seen so far:

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/3/28/5521124/2014-nfl-draft-sammy-watkins-video-scouting-report

It's glowingly positive to the point of being almost unreliable, but it makes some very good points and is based on game tape observation.

Second, although it was just one off season, the Lions got good players out of later rounds and FA last year and with the depth of this draft and the extra 4th rounders, giving up the 2nd rounder to get a superstar player could turn out to be a great move.

That of course is if Watkins is that good, and if the Lions can duplicate their success of last season. Neither of those are guaranteed which is why I still wouldn't do it, but if it were to happen I'd be on board and excited as hell to see Watkins with the Lions.
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d_stanton2lions


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As of right now, and outside of Watkins flat out being better, I want him for how much he wants to play for us. Seems like he's ready to come here and do some serious work with Calvin. I have loads of respect for that mentality in the current sports world.
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thenoilif


Joined: 01 Feb 2013
Posts: 410
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I like Watkins as a player and I believe he is a superior WR compared to the rest of the guys in this draft, the team needs to focus on defense and cannot afford to give up the picks that will be needed to trade up. The value is just not there and due to the presence of CJ and now Tate, they can pick a guy up in the third and focus on defense in rounds 1 and 2.
I would love for them to go Barr BPA or Dix NEED and then go CB in the 2nd.

Schemes and talent shift are pushing teams to go fast and physical on the defensive side and for once I would really like for Detroit to be ahead of the curve instead of being one of the last to adopt a scheme, like NO style offense, really?!! A bit late to the party guys.

I know they want to give Stafford every possible chance to succeed but that doesn't mean filling the roster with the best of the best receiving options. Focus on the D so they can stop teams thus reducing pressure on the offense.
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WillieYoungSon


Joined: 15 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilson2k3 wrote:
You left out one major bit of information -

Mike Williams, WR, USC -

6'4'' - 229 Pounds

4.56 40 Time - 37 Inch Vertical Leap

2002 - 81 Receptions, 1265 Yards, 14 TD's
2003 - 95 Receptions, 1314 Yards, 16 TD's
2004 - 00 Receptions, 0000 Yards, 00 TD's DID NOT PLAY

Selected #10 by the Detroit Lions in the 2005 NFL Draft.

Mike Evans, WR, Texas A&M -

6'5" - 231 Pounds

4.53 40 Time - 37 Inch Vertical Leap

2012 - 82 Receptions, 1105 Yards, 5 TD's
2013 - 69 Receptions, 1394 Yards 12 TD's

The Detroit Lions hold the #10 Pick in the 2014 NFL Draft.


Mike Williams IMO was a bust for 2 reasons, one being he didn't play in 2004, and two being he seemed like a guy in it for the money because he thought he was better then everyone else and wanted to challenge the system so he could get his payday in the NFL for the 2004 draft which he didn't get, thus sat out all of 2004 until drafted in 2005. He might of looked like the best guy in 2004 had he made that draft, but I doubt any team takes him in the first round in 2005, let alone the 2nd round. But the Lions took him, and ended up being one of the worst picks.

For the OP, I too like Evans over Watkins, to me Evens has a chance to be the next Megatron (no most likely not that good, but CJ like) or at least someone like Jeffery for the Bears, hes just that kind of go up and get it kind of player. Where as Watkins to me, might have a good career, but seems like a slot guy at best. Kind of like what Titus Young was.


Haha exactly! Big difference sitting out a year!
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WillieYoungSon


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely agree. I also think Evans gets drafted first and we get a chance at neither of them.

The Sammy Watkins wining and dining is a smokescreen by the way. Def not trading up for a #3 receiver at this point.
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diehardlionfan


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WillieYoungSon wrote:
I completely agree. I also think Evans gets drafted first and we get a chance at neither of them.

The Sammy Watkins wining and dining is a smokescreen by the way. Def not trading up for a #3 receiver at this point.


I'm not certain a team invests the time and money the Lions have because its a smokescreen.

Why would they do that?

Everyone knows Watkins is a quality pick and will be gone top 5.
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Maverick12


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

diehardlionfan wrote:
WillieYoungSon wrote:
I completely agree. I also think Evans gets drafted first and we get a chance at neither of them.

The Sammy Watkins wining and dining is a smokescreen by the way. Def not trading up for a #3 receiver at this point.


I'm not certain a team invests the time and money the Lions have because its a smokescreen.

Why would they do that?

Everyone knows Watkins is a quality pick and will be gone top 5.


I agree, this doesn't seem like a smoke screen. The FO has put way too much time in him to be considered a smokescreen. Otherwise, why have dinner with him and his family and all the other things they're doing with him. Should also be noted they brought in his half brother for a visit.
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amaru0


Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maverick12 wrote:
diehardlionfan wrote:
WillieYoungSon wrote:
I completely agree. I also think Evans gets drafted first and we get a chance at neither of them.

The Sammy Watkins wining and dining is a smokescreen by the way. Def not trading up for a #3 receiver at this point.


I'm not certain a team invests the time and money the Lions have because its a smokescreen.

Why would they do that?

Everyone knows Watkins is a quality pick and will be gone top 5.


I agree, this doesn't seem like a smoke screen. The FO has put way too much time in him to be considered a smokescreen. Otherwise, why have dinner with him and his family and all the other things they're doing with him. Should also be noted they brought in his half brother for a visit.


Let's keep in mind that the money they've spent is negligible for a billion dollar industry. We're talking a nice dinner and a few private flights. Not that I think it IS a smokescreen, but you can't argue against it on cost. I like the "deal already in place" theory I read somewhere today. If they have a deal in place, contingent on his availability at the pick, then all this wining and dining makes more sense.

Who knows? Maybe Sammy will pull an Eli and refuse to play for anyone else! Wink
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