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One young emerging player
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11sanchez11


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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Location: Tucson, AZ
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:50 pm    Post subject: One young emerging player Reply with quote

Just a hypothetical I was thinking about, if you could have one of the young players on the team emerge to be an adequate starter, not pro bowl level just someone we didn't need to upgrade, who would it be and why?

Some options:

Massie, Tony Jefferson, Watford, Okafor, Potter, Minter, Stephan Taylor, Ryan Williams, Bethel, etc.
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holeman1


Joined: 01 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curtis Taylor, SS, LSU (right now he is limited to special teams). he is tall at 6' 2" and I think if he can have a surprising training camp by proving that he can contend for the starting spot at SS I think our secondary could be complete as we will have the tall guy that we need to become the Legion of Boom 2.0.

Last edited by holeman1 on Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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JLW


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ryan Lindley.

I feel like for a lot of the guys you listed, they actually have a decent shot at becoming adequate starters anyways. I don't really think Lindley has a chance at developing into an adequate starter, but it would be really nice for this team if he did.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLW wrote:
Ryan Lindley.

I feel like for a lot of the guys you listed, they actually have a decent shot at becoming adequate starters anyways. I don't really think Lindley has a chance at developing into an adequate starter, but it would be really nice for this team if he did.


Would be good, but at QB what holeman described is more a hindrance than a help. An average QB leads to 7-9 to 9-7 seasons and you end up stuck.

Tony Jefferson would be my guy. Talk to him on Twitter a bit, seems chill.
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JLW


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson just led us to 10-6 and I think a lot of people would describe him as a below average QB.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLW wrote:
Carson just led us to 10-6 and I think a lot of people would describe him as a below average QB.


And I among others consider us in QB purgatory, because Carson has never shown or proven that he is consistent enough to lead a team to a title.

Our D is much more responsible for 10-6 than Carson was. Just have to take one look at that game at Seattle.
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DJ_Fka


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acho or Massie

Have a soft spot for both f them
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JLW


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

QB purgatory is a stupid concept.

It assumes a few things which aren't true:
That you can't win with an average QB.
That a better QB will never be available to you if you don't pick in the top 10.
That having an average QB prevents you from taking an upgrade if one presents itself.

Of course our D was more responsible than Carson. That kind of backs up the fact that you don't need to have a great QB to have success. That defense carried our mediocre quarterbacked and pathetic rushing team to a 10-6 record against a difficult schedule. The end goal is to win the Super Bowl, not to have the best QB.


Last edited by JLW on Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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mtdowner


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we could get both Massie and Watford to develop into solid starters we would have a very nice nearly complete OL.
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DJ_Fka


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLW wrote:
QB purgatory is a stupid concept.

It assumes a few things which aren't true:
That you can't win with an average QB.
That a better QB will never be available to you if you don't pick in the top 10.
That having an average QB prevents you from taking an upgrade if one presents itself.

Of course our D was more responsible than Carson. That kind of backs up the fact that you don't need to have a great QB to have success. That defense carried our mediocre quarterbacked and pathetic rushing team to a 10-6 record against a difficult schedule. The end goal is to win the Super Bowl, not to have the best QB.


Ravens and bucs won superbowls with average qbs
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khodder


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLW wrote:
QB purgatory is a stupid concept.

It assumes a few things which aren't true:
That you can't win with an average QB.
That a better QB will never be available to you if you don't pick in the top 10.
That having an average QB prevents you from taking an upgrade if one presents itself.

Of course our D was more responsible than Carson. That kind of backs up the fact that you don't need to have a great QB to have success. That defense carried our mediocre quarterbacked and pathetic rushing team to a 10-6 record against a difficult schedule. The end goal is to win the Super Bowl, not to have the best QB.


It is not a stupid concept; Look at the cuts and sacrifices the Ravens had to make when they committed the money they did to Joe Flacco; an average QB.

Purgatory really starts when you begin to pay your average QB elite QB money. With Palmer's cap hit moving from $4M to $12M this year we are moving from; good value at QB to; QB taking up too much of the cap value. We have already seen one concession on defense this team has had to make to carry the Palmer contract. Not being able to keep Dansby in town.

It does not assume that you cannot get a good QB outside the top 10; It just values the factual evidence provided that getting an elite QB outside of the top 10 in the draft is very rare. We are talking one every three to four drafts.

It does not assume that it prevents you from taking an "upgrade" at QB, the money aspect does. The Ravens could be in a spot to land Teddy Bridgewater; you know why he is likely not even on their radar? The money they have committed to Flacco. Look at how the situation plays out in Cincinnati soon. Andy Dalton is going to be looking for a big payday; whether or not he gets his $$$ is going to either have a positive or negative effect on the Bengals being able to keep their young, talented, currently cheap core together on defense.

Of course the ultimate goal is to win the Superbowl, not have the best QB, but you know the easiest way to stay competitive year in year out in the NFL for a decade plus? Have the best QB in the league.

Part of the reason we were able to have success this season this season defensively was because we had an elite ILB playing on a cheap deal (Dansby), we have two top notch DB's (Mathieu and Peterson) playing on their rookie deals, no money at all committed at the safety position, another cheap, top notch ILB on a cheap deal (Washington). Really to only place we have big money invested defensively is the DL; Moving forward that is going to change. We are going to have to spend big to retain Peterson and Mathieu, we are going to have to invest at safety, we are likely going to have to invest in a pass rusher. We are going to lose key defensive players that we cannot afford to keep any longer (Dansby).

Last season in Arizona was a perfect scenario. A QB playing on a cheap deal, lots of top defensive players on cheap deals. That is unsustainable going forwards. The NFL is a business where you need to be in a win now mode year in year out, but also need to continue to prepare and invest in the future. Making bad investments at QB is the fastest way to the wrong end of the pecking order in the NFL; Cardinals fans of all people should know this.

We have already seen the quantum leap in quality when you move from backup quality to average starter at QB. There is a similar leap in quality form average to elite.

If you can make sense of that incoherent rant then...cool. If not, just know that QB Puragatory is real. You can avoid it by dealing with the QB position correctly; but if you don't do it correctly you are setting yourself up for failure.
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khodder


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJ_Fka wrote:
Ravens and bucs won superbowls with average qbs


Tampa Bay did so over a decade ago; the NFL is different in 2014 than it was in 2002.

The Ravens did it with Flacco on his rookie contract. You don't move into purgatory territory until you commit the money to the QB. As I mentioned look at the sacrifices the Ravens made to keep Flacco around, and look where it got them.
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Plucky


Joined: 12 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khodder wrote:
DJ_Fka wrote:
Ravens and bucs won superbowls with average qbs


Tampa Bay did so over a decade ago; the NFL is different in 2014 than it was in 2002.

The Ravens did it with Flacco on his rookie contract. You don't move into purgatory territory until you commit the money to the QB. As I mentioned look at the sacrifices the Ravens made to keep Flacco around, and look where it got them.


While I agree with what you are saying I don't think flacco is the only reason for that season they just had. Rice looks like he lost his legs, had O-line trouble, lost 2 great leaders and multiple players on defense. They are rebuilding, getting younger and I think that was the main reason. Any team with any qb worth having with be worse off financially than teams with a new qb but I don't think its the end all be all when it comes to winning a champsionship. You pay your qb the money, hes the most important player on your team. You make it to the superbowl with soft contracts for veterans, rebuild through draft so their contracts aren't swallowing you up.

But as a backup player (ryan) who will become just "solid or average" I think they could make it there or pretty deep, but I'm sick of managers I want a star. Give me solid along the O-line ala massier/watford, I want a star at qb.
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LuckyNumber11


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JLW wrote:
Ryan Lindley.

I feel like for a lot of the guys you listed, they actually have a decent shot at becoming adequate starters anyways. I don't really think Lindley has a chance at developing into an adequate starter, but it would be really nice for this team if he did.


Andy Dalton and Jay Cutler would not win a Super Bowl

If I could pick one I would say Tony Jefferson
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Boise&cards Fan


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the young OL guys stepping up would be nice.
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