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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Done arguing it. The fact many experts have stated that Dennard may actually be 3rd CB off board and Gilbert #2 shows Dennard is falling. Gilbert holding steady. Fuller is climbing and could easily jump both.
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FootballPhreak


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
Done arguing it. The fact many experts have stated that Dennard may actually be 3rd CB off board and Gilbert #2 shows Dennard is falling. Gilbert holding steady. Fuller is climbing and could easily jump both.

Not sure what your point is here. Even more "experts" have Dennard first off the board. So I guess by your logic Gilbert shouldn't even be considered, right?
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FootballPhreak wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Done arguing it. The fact many experts have stated that Dennard may actually be 3rd CB off board and Gilbert #2 shows Dennard is falling. Gilbert holding steady. Fuller is climbing and could easily jump both.

Not sure what your point is here. Even more "experts" have Dennard first off the board. So I guess by your logic Gilbert shouldn't even be considered, right?


Not really. Everything I see the majority have Gilbert gone first. I think I say about 2 out of 10 first page of google with Dennard first. Then about 20% of the common everyday analysts most follow.

Dennard is the clear #2 in majority of mocks pure and simple.

Honestly if he was not attending MSU this board would not be so high on him.
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1King


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Comedy comedy. Yea no. dGB and Baylor wr dominate anything Dennard saw

The worst teams in big 12 sport better WR then best in big ten


Outside Robinson big ten sucks at position


Holy hyperbole Batman!

Not even close to true.


Name one good WR outside Robinson


That wasn't the statement I bolded or commented on, it was your ridiculous assertion that the worst Big 12 teams have better WR than the best in the Big Ten.

Allen Robinson
Cody Latimer
Jeremy Gallon
Jared Abbredaris

are all easily NFL caliber mid round type WR's, just from this draft class alone.

That doesn't include any of the underclassman WR's either.

EDIT: And all of those guys would be among the best WR's in the Big 12 as well.


List is horrid. Gallon is UDFA to late pick at best


Quick, without looking, name me the WR's on the following teams (aka the worst teams in the Big 12 who supposedly have better receivers than Robinson, Gallon, Latimer, Abbredaris, etc.):

Kansas
Iowa State
West Virginia

Gallon would have been a top 5 WR in the Big 12 this year without a doubt. Robinson and Abbredaris could probably say the same.


I said outside Robinson. Bundrage> rest of your list. Kansas WV don't throw a lot so yea they probably middle of bug ten


So you admit your statement was absolutely ridiculous and utterly false. Got it, thanks for admitting you were wrong.

Also:

B1G WR projected to be drafted in 2014 NFL Draft:

Robinson (2nd-3rd)
Abbredaris (2nd-3rd)
Latimer (mid-late)
Gallon (late-UDFA)
Fowler (late-UDFA)
Enunwa (late-UDFA)
Colter (late-UDFA)

Big 12 WR projected to be drafted in 2014 NFL Draft:

Saunders (mid-late round)
Reese (late round-UDFA)
Stewart (late round-UDFA)


Of course you would totally ignore all the talent in 2015 class and him shutting down Beckham Green because it would hurt your case.


SOrry your homerism of Gallon and Big Ten football blinding you. Nothing about the Big Ten screams good passing games. Nothing.


Why would I include DGB in this discussion when he plays in the SEC? That is neither the Big Ten nor the Big 12, which was the only part of your post that I was talking about. I wasn't arguing your point about Gilbert or Dennard at all, the only point/issue I was arguing was that the bottom of the Big 12 WR's were better than the best in the Big 10 - which is ridiculous.

All the 2015 class talent? The (very early) top 2015 WR prospects from the two conferences favors the Big Ten even more:

Devin Funchess
Stefon Diggs
Deon Long
Leonte Carroo
Kenny Bell
Devin Smith

vs.

Antwan Goodley
Tyler Lockett
Levi Norwood
Brandon Carter
Sterling Shepard
Quenton Bundrage


I dont give a crap about Big 10 football, I'm not into all that conference pride nonsense. Your homerism for Justin Gilbert and/or hate for Dennard is making you say ridiculous things that aren't true to try and support your opinions.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Comedy comedy. Yea no. dGB and Baylor wr dominate anything Dennard saw

The worst teams in big 12 sport better WR then best in big ten


Outside Robinson big ten sucks at position


Holy hyperbole Batman!

Not even close to true.


Name one good WR outside Robinson


That wasn't the statement I bolded or commented on, it was your ridiculous assertion that the worst Big 12 teams have better WR than the best in the Big Ten.

Allen Robinson
Cody Latimer
Jeremy Gallon
Jared Abbredaris

are all easily NFL caliber mid round type WR's, just from this draft class alone.

That doesn't include any of the underclassman WR's either.

EDIT: And all of those guys would be among the best WR's in the Big 12 as well.


List is horrid. Gallon is UDFA to late pick at best


Quick, without looking, name me the WR's on the following teams (aka the worst teams in the Big 12 who supposedly have better receivers than Robinson, Gallon, Latimer, Abbredaris, etc.):

Kansas
Iowa State
West Virginia

Gallon would have been a top 5 WR in the Big 12 this year without a doubt. Robinson and Abbredaris could probably say the same.


I said outside Robinson. Bundrage> rest of your list. Kansas WV don't throw a lot so yea they probably middle of bug ten


So you admit your statement was absolutely ridiculous and utterly false. Got it, thanks for admitting you were wrong.

Also:

B1G WR projected to be drafted in 2014 NFL Draft:

Robinson (2nd-3rd)
Abbredaris (2nd-3rd)
Latimer (mid-late)
Gallon (late-UDFA)
Fowler (late-UDFA)
Enunwa (late-UDFA)
Colter (late-UDFA)

Big 12 WR projected to be drafted in 2014 NFL Draft:

Saunders (mid-late round)
Reese (late round-UDFA)
Stewart (late round-UDFA)


Of course you would totally ignore all the talent in 2015 class and him shutting down Beckham Green because it would hurt your case.


SOrry your homerism of Gallon and Big Ten football blinding you. Nothing about the Big Ten screams good passing games. Nothing.


Why would I include DGB in this discussion when he plays in the SEC? That is neither the Big Ten nor the Big 12, which was the only part of your post that I was talking about. I wasn't arguing your point about Gilbert or Dennard at all, the only point/issue I was arguing was that the bottom of the Big 12 WR's were better than the best in the Big 10 - which is ridiculous.

All the 2015 class talent? The (very early) top 2015 WR prospects from the two conferences favors the Big Ten even more:

Devin Funchess
Stefon Diggs
Deon Long
Leonte Carroo
Kenny Bell
Devin Smith

vs.

Antwan Goodley
Tyler Lockett
Levi Norwood
Brandon Carter
Sterling Shepard
Quenton Bundrage


I dont give a crap about Big 10 football, I'm not into all that conference pride nonsense. Your homerism for Justin Gilbert and/or hate for Dennard is making you say ridiculous things that aren't true to try and support your opinions.


Lulz. Diggs never faced Dennard. Deon Long either. Leontte Carroo as well from Rutgers. This is their first year in Big TEn. You are reaching and with that I am done. You are literally making stuff up now.

Listing 3 guys who have not played snap in big ten. Laughing
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1King


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Lulz. Diggs never faced Dennard. Deon Long either. Leontte Carroo as well from Rutgers. This is their first year in Big TEn. You are reaching and with that I am done. You are literally making stuff up now.

Listing 3 guys who have not played snap in big ten. Laughing


You brought up 2015 WR, those guys are 2015 B1G WR, which is why I listed them..... I never said or implied Dennard faced them, as I said, none of my comments were focused on Gilbert or Dennard at all - my comments were strictly limited to your Big 12 WR vs. B1G WR comment.

I am reaching, says the guy who says the bottom of the Big 12 WR are better than the best of the B1G and who keeps talking about Big 12 WR and mentioning DGB who isn't a Big 12 WR. And I am the one making stuff up now. Funny guy. Evaluating WR's clearly isn't your strong point.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1King wrote:
Quote:
Lulz. Diggs never faced Dennard. Deon Long either. Leontte Carroo as well from Rutgers. This is their first year in Big TEn. You are reaching and with that I am done. You are literally making stuff up now.

Listing 3 guys who have not played snap in big ten. Laughing


You brought up 2015 WR, those guys are 2015 B1G WR, which is why I listed them..... I never said or implied Dennard faced them, as I said, none of my comments were focused on Gilbert or Dennard at all - my comments were strictly limited to your Big 12 WR vs. B1G WR comment.

I am reaching, says the guy who says the bottom of the Big 12 WR are better than the best of the B1G and who keeps talking about Big 12 WR and mentioning DGB who isn't a Big 12 WR. And I am the one making stuff up now. Funny guy. Evaluating WR's clearly isn't your strong point.


Those guys you mentioned are NOT big Ten players in the scope of showing who Dennard has faced. He has faced nobody. A midget UDFA from UM is his best competition outside Robinson

I mentioned Beckham because he shutdown a future top 5 pick.


I really dont care anymore. If it is Dennard I wish him the best. Fairley needs someone to compete for penalties anyhow
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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
Quote:
Lulz. Diggs never faced Dennard. Deon Long either. Leontte Carroo as well from Rutgers. This is their first year in Big TEn. You are reaching and with that I am done. You are literally making stuff up now.

Listing 3 guys who have not played snap in big ten. Laughing


You brought up 2015 WR, those guys are 2015 B1G WR, which is why I listed them..... I never said or implied Dennard faced them, as I said, none of my comments were focused on Gilbert or Dennard at all - my comments were strictly limited to your Big 12 WR vs. B1G WR comment.

I am reaching, says the guy who says the bottom of the Big 12 WR are better than the best of the B1G and who keeps talking about Big 12 WR and mentioning DGB who isn't a Big 12 WR. And I am the one making stuff up now. Funny guy. Evaluating WR's clearly isn't your strong point.


Those guys you mentioned are NOT big Ten players in the scope of showing who Dennard has faced. He has faced nobody. A midget UDFA from UM is his best competition outside Robinson

I mentioned Beckham because he shutdown a future top 5 pick.


I really dont care anymore. If it is Dennard I wish him the best. Fairley needs someone to compete for penalties anyhow


Still not reading that it is about your statement of conferences and not Dennard #typical

Gilbert had one game against a top WR, which he didn't shadow and still caught 4 balls for 60 yards in a winning effort. Dennard shut down multiple NFL WRs that absolutely torched other 1st round prospects like Roby. Also, plenty of good CBs played subpar competition in college since most teams lack NFL talent at WR. I mean, if we judge off that, Jason Verrett must not be any good.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
1King wrote:
Quote:
Lulz. Diggs never faced Dennard. Deon Long either. Leontte Carroo as well from Rutgers. This is their first year in Big TEn. You are reaching and with that I am done. You are literally making stuff up now.

Listing 3 guys who have not played snap in big ten. Laughing


You brought up 2015 WR, those guys are 2015 B1G WR, which is why I listed them..... I never said or implied Dennard faced them, as I said, none of my comments were focused on Gilbert or Dennard at all - my comments were strictly limited to your Big 12 WR vs. B1G WR comment.

I am reaching, says the guy who says the bottom of the Big 12 WR are better than the best of the B1G and who keeps talking about Big 12 WR and mentioning DGB who isn't a Big 12 WR. And I am the one making stuff up now. Funny guy. Evaluating WR's clearly isn't your strong point.


Those guys you mentioned are NOT big Ten players in the scope of showing who Dennard has faced. He has faced nobody. A midget UDFA from UM is his best competition outside Robinson

I mentioned Beckham because he shutdown a future top 5 pick.


I really dont care anymore. If it is Dennard I wish him the best. Fairley needs someone to compete for penalties anyhow


Still not reading that it is about your statement of conferences and not Dennard #typical

Gilbert had one game against a top WR, which he didn't shadow and still caught 4 balls for 60 yards in a winning effort. Dennard shut down multiple NFL WRs that absolutely torched other 1st round prospects like Roby. Also, plenty of good CBs played subpar competition in college since most teams lack NFL talent at WR. I mean, if we judge off that, Jason Verrett must not be any good.


Roby hasn't been first round talent in many months. Many

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Sllim Pickens


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calling it a homer pick is an easy way out, but fact of the matter is the top CB in the draft went to MSU, I can't help that I went there and am a fan. But it's not why he is my top CB. It's because he shut down everyone. Okie St gave up over 300 yards passing numerous times and over 400 a couple. And that was spread out amongst many WRs. So maybe gilbert played better offenses but he didn't shut anything down. He is a combine warrior, Dennard proved it on the field. Go look at those CB stats posted a while back. The only one who matched Dennard at all was Verrett. I don't care where he played, he is just the better football player. And I take that over athleticism all day.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

defense should probably be a first rd pick but im not feeln anyone there.. dix and gilbert whould be the only dbs id draft there and I struggle with that

id rather trade up or down for shazier then draft barr

I think donald is worth the pick but do we really need a first rd dt

shoot bpa might be ol

I have ebron right there with evans so for me if I was hell bent on offense id grab ebron
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather draft a QB than take Evans so I sure hope someone else takes him.
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diehardlionfan


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comparing players from two different conferences based on stats is a difficult sell.

It's because of that many opinions are unsupportable when assessing players against each other. The same holds true at the NFL level when there aren't balanced schedules and common opponents.

Big 10 and Big 12 conferences play very different football. The B12 is far more passing oriented and the Oklahoma State Cowboys defeated the #2 and #5 ranked passing teams in the nation.

The top ranked passing offence in the B10 ranked 24th.

Beyond the generalizations I'm not sure what valid comparisons can be made.

It seems obvious fans have entrenched opinions on both players but both players have strengths and weaknesses.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:


Roby hasn't been first round talent in many months. Many



I agree on Roby, see him as a 3rd/4th rounder... but somehow you'll have trouble convincing others of that. I've been watching all his "elite" 2012 this morning and everything is still there that makes him a mid rounder to me. He's too Jekyll and Hyde with his effort and coverage for me to take him early.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sllim Pickens wrote:
Calling it a homer pick is an easy way out, but fact of the matter is the top CB in the draft went to MSU, I can't help that I went there and am a fan. But it's not why he is my top CB. It's because he shut down everyone. Okie St gave up over 300 yards passing numerous times and over 400 a couple. And that was spread out amongst many WRs. So maybe gilbert played better offenses but he didn't shut anything down. He is a combine warrior, Dennard proved it on the field. Go look at those CB stats posted a while back. The only one who matched Dennard at all was Verrett. I don't care where he played, he is just the better football player. And I take that over athleticism all day.


Okie St. also defeated the #2 and #5 passing offences in the nation.

Its unfair to suggest Gilbert is responsible when teams that run 4 and 5 receivers put up 300 yards against the Cowboys.

You also need to look at when yards and points were achieved. Against Baylor the Cowboys allowed 2 passing TD's. One early in the 4th quarter and one in the last 2 minutes. So, against the number 5 passing offence they allowed 3 points prior to the 4th quarter in a blow out victory.

The Cowboys also handled the Red Raiders, the number two passing offence who put the ball up 71 times but only managed two passing TD's for their efforts.

Calling Gilbert a combine warrior isn't true. He was highly ranked prior to the event.

Level of play at the next level is better so if one is in a fact a better football player at a lower level, ceiling and potential certainly has to be considered.

I think the Lions would be fortunate to have either player Slim but I think you're really reaching in an attempt to discredit Gilbert. Especially when you're using yards as a reason.
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