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Would you take Johnny Manziel *#14*
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ForteOz


Joined: 03 Sep 2013
Posts: 811
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not that I would want us to take Manziel or any QB at #14 (I would rather we trade it and profit), but of the 99 problems that can result from drafting any 1st rounder, 'how will the media react' would be about #98 on my board. Right in between eye color and 'does he like country music?'

Also, we've already seen a version that drama play out with McCown last year, and the coaching staff had no problem making the call to stick with Jay.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Don't lie about my past comments. I never downgraded Trevon Austin because he was not ideal H/W but because he was a LOT smaller than pro players need to be for a high first round pick, Manziel is SLIGHTLY shorter than ideal. There is no hypocrisy on my part. What I said all along was that picking a player like that in the third round was fine but insane for the first and I see nothing that has dispelled that viewpoint. Picking Pinky or Darrel Sproles in the third is fine, Austin with the 8th pick ridiculous.


I wasnt lying about your past comments at all. I was actually looking at your past threads before writing that. Maybe you need to recheck your own writing. Austin at the 8th pick was ridiculous to you because you didnt watch any of the film(typical) and went off an incredibly stupid stereotype. Did you forget about the game vs the Rams? Or did that slip your memory too?
Where would you come up with the idea that I had not watched TA? I watched several WV games prior to the draft and the year before and saw nothing exceptional. WV always had these fast, little guys and he was the latest. The "stupid" stereotype was common sense and knowledge of WHO actually plays in the NFL and that rarely includes players that small. Our game vs the Rams had many problematic aspects including bad special teams. Austin's year was not a total failure but is not even close to what the 8th pick should produce. He wasn't even Johnny Knox good.


Well apparently the "common sense" coming from ChicagoAl just completely escaped NFL Front Offices Laughing. I'm curious now....which games did you watch? His first year wasnt anything close to a failure.
Actually, the front offices operate precisely as I said. Players are almost inevitably chosen within certain physical aspects: size and weight and speed overruling almost every other aspect. Austin's dimensions are wildly outside the desired range. Tiny football players are almost never chosen as high as he was. That is not even a controversial statement.

Austin was nothing special outside of one game. Not even Johnny Knox good. Knox is one of my favorite players in the last few years, also too small; and also not worth a first round pick even if his ypc for his rookie year doubled Austin's.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
Should he continue to play as he has there is no question that he would be HoF material.


Come on, if most 1st round picks and Heisman winners/finalists played in the pros the way they did in college, they ALL would be HoF material. That is a comment with no substance whatsoever.

As for bad for A&M's standards, UF didn't have 10 wins for 4 straight seasons before he got there, then he gets there and they have 3 13 win seasons and one 9 win season, and had some fantastic stats while winning a Heisman, repeat Maxwell winner, Offensive Player of the Year for the SEC and the AP, etc. Extrapolate his college stat to the pros and he is a sure-fire HoF player, just as hundreds of other college players every decade would be.

Its a different game altogether at the NFL.


Just pointing out the reason nobody replied to that is because Al's statements & record with prospects has been well document. Its not pretty.
So I should switch from my Ouija Board to a Crystal Ball? Or use tea leaves as you do?


Using any of those would probably be more accurate than what you were doing before
Do you wake up rude or do you have to work up to it?


As George Carlin said "I have a very low tolerance level for stupid bull(you know)". When it comes to this subject you certainly exude quite a bit of it.
One field in which I will concede your superior knowledge is BS.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7951
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForteOz wrote:
Not that I would want us to take Manziel or any QB at #14 (I would rather we trade it and profit), but of the 99 problems that can result from drafting any 1st rounder, 'how will the media react' would be about #98 on my board. Right in between eye color and 'does he like country music?'

Also, we've already seen a version that drama play out with McCown last year, and the coaching staff had no problem making the call to stick with Jay.
There is little chance that John M even gets out of the top five, so it is a worry we won't have. And anyone allowing the loathesome media to interfere with anything is incapable of leading the Bears to a Super Bowl. That is one reason why Ditka was successful, he hated those idiots as much as I do. The way certain people talk about a team, it is as if they are a bunch of teenage girls ready to get in a snit about things they have no say in. "Oooh, you drafted a QB, don't you think I'm pretty enough?"
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Mudderfudder77


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 1841
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
ForteOz wrote:
Not that I would want us to take Manziel or any QB at #14 (I would rather we trade it and profit), but of the 99 problems that can result from drafting any 1st rounder, 'how will the media react' would be about #98 on my board. Right in between eye color and 'does he like country music?'

Also, we've already seen a version that drama play out with McCown last year, and the coaching staff had no problem making the call to stick with Jay.
There is little chance that John M even gets out of the top five, so it is a worry we won't have. And anyone allowing the loathesome media to interfere with anything is incapable of leading the Bears to a Super Bowl. That is one reason why Ditka was successful, he hated those idiots as much as I do. The way certain people talk about a team, it is as if they are a bunch of teenage girls ready to get in a snit about things they have no say in. "Oooh, you drafted a QB, don't you think I'm pretty enough?"


And here I thought it was because he had the best RB and best defense in the history of the game.
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CBears019


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
ForteOz wrote:
Not that I would want us to take Manziel or any QB at #14 (I would rather we trade it and profit), but of the 99 problems that can result from drafting any 1st rounder, 'how will the media react' would be about #98 on my board. Right in between eye color and 'does he like country music?'

Also, we've already seen a version that drama play out with McCown last year, and the coaching staff had no problem making the call to stick with Jay.
There is little chance that John M even gets out of the top five, so it is a worry we won't have. And anyone allowing the loathesome media to interfere with anything is incapable of leading the Bears to a Super Bowl. That is one reason why Ditka was successful, he hated those idiots as much as I do. The way certain people talk about a team, it is as if they are a bunch of teenage girls ready to get in a snit about things they have no say in. "Oooh, you drafted a QB, don't you think I'm pretty enough?"


But media in '85 and media today are so vastly different; today media is so much more intrusive. Today with Twitter, Facebook, etc. players are just as much a part of "the media" as your traditional journalists are. If a player gets upset with his role and rants about it online certain teammates may agree with him, others disagree. If it's over an issue as big as who should the starting QB be, that could cause a locker room rift, thus leading to a distraction/loss of focus.

EDIT: I envision the media hype surrounding Manziel being very Tebow-esque. I don't know about the rest of you, but I enjoy turning on SportsCenter and not seeing anything about the Bears unless its a recap of their most recent game.

EDIT 2: My example is quite an extreme one, but I'm using it just to illustrate how media is very different from what it was in the 80s.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7951
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mudderfudder77 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
ForteOz wrote:
Not that I would want us to take Manziel or any QB at #14 (I would rather we trade it and profit), but of the 99 problems that can result from drafting any 1st rounder, 'how will the media react' would be about #98 on my board. Right in between eye color and 'does he like country music?'

Also, we've already seen a version that drama play out with McCown last year, and the coaching staff had no problem making the call to stick with Jay.
There is little chance that John M even gets out of the top five, so it is a worry we won't have. And anyone allowing the loathesome media to interfere with anything is incapable of leading the Bears to a Super Bowl. That is one reason why Ditka was successful, he hated those idiots as much as I do. The way certain people talk about a team, it is as if they are a bunch of teenage girls ready to get in a snit about things they have no say in. "Oooh, you drafted a QB, don't you think I'm pretty enough?"


And here I thought it was because he had the best RB and best defense in the history of the game.
Some people believe all that could be trumped by a hyper-ventilating media.
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 7951
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBears019 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
ForteOz wrote:
Not that I would want us to take Manziel or any QB at #14 (I would rather we trade it and profit), but of the 99 problems that can result from drafting any 1st rounder, 'how will the media react' would be about #98 on my board. Right in between eye color and 'does he like country music?'

Also, we've already seen a version that drama play out with McCown last year, and the coaching staff had no problem making the call to stick with Jay.
There is little chance that John M even gets out of the top five, so it is a worry we won't have. And anyone allowing the loathesome media to interfere with anything is incapable of leading the Bears to a Super Bowl. That is one reason why Ditka was successful, he hated those idiots as much as I do. The way certain people talk about a team, it is as if they are a bunch of teenage girls ready to get in a snit about things they have no say in. "Oooh, you drafted a QB, don't you think I'm pretty enough?"


But media in '85 and media today are so vastly different; today media is so much more intrusive. Today with Twitter, Facebook, etc. players are just as much a part of "the media" as your traditional journalists are. If a player gets upset with his role and rants about it online certain teammates may agree with him, others disagree. If it's over an issue as big as who should the starting QB be, that could cause a locker room rift, thus leading to a distraction/loss of focus. You are quite right about the new additions to the media but it does not change the nature of the beast. Had the 85 Bears had Twitter, FB, etc. they would have been even MORE widely covered and interesting to the fans. Any team that allows this stuff to distract them doesn't have the makeup to be winners in any case.

EDIT: I envision the media hype surrounding Manziel being very Tebow-esque. I don't know about the rest of you, but I enjoy turning on SportsCenter and not seeing anything about the Bears unless its a recap of their most recent game. Since I don't watch any of these shows it does not affect me. Only if Manziel comes out as a staunch Christian will the media frenzy rise to Tebow heights after the initial excitement and Manziel seems to be in little danger of that confession.

EDIT 2: My example is quite an extreme one, but I'm using it just to illustrate how media is very different from what it was in the 80s.
While I do not advocate poking a finger in the eye of the media when not appropriate, it cannot be allowed to dictate a team's actions. Emery and Trestman can handle it. That is a certain path to disaster.
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 19112
Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:

Austin was nothing special outside of one game. Not even Johnny Knox good. Knox is one of my favorite players in the last few years, also too small; and also not worth a first round pick even if his ypc for his rookie year doubled Austin's.


I can automatically tell you didnt watch him at all....I'll let you guess why. You didnt even answer my previous question making it even more obvious.
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ForteOz


Joined: 03 Sep 2013
Posts: 811
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBears019 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
ForteOz wrote:
Not that I would want us to take Manziel or any QB at #14 (I would rather we trade it and profit), but of the 99 problems that can result from drafting any 1st rounder, 'how will the media react' would be about #98 on my board. Right in between eye color and 'does he like country music?'

Also, we've already seen a version that drama play out with McCown last year, and the coaching staff had no problem making the call to stick with Jay.
There is little chance that John M even gets out of the top five, so it is a worry we won't have. And anyone allowing the loathesome media to interfere with anything is incapable of leading the Bears to a Super Bowl. That is one reason why Ditka was successful, he hated those idiots as much as I do. The way certain people talk about a team, it is as if they are a bunch of teenage girls ready to get in a snit about things they have no say in. "Oooh, you drafted a QB, don't you think I'm pretty enough?"


But media in '85 and media today are so vastly different; today media is so much more intrusive. Today with Twitter, Facebook, etc. players are just as much a part of "the media" as your traditional journalists are. If a player gets upset with his role and rants about it online certain teammates may agree with him, others disagree. If it's over an issue as big as who should the starting QB be, that could cause a locker room rift, thus leading to a distraction/loss of focus.

EDIT: I envision the media hype surrounding Manziel being very Tebow-esque. I don't know about the rest of you, but I enjoy turning on SportsCenter and not seeing anything about the Bears unless its a recap of their most recent game.

EDIT 2: My example is quite an extreme one, but I'm using it just to illustrate how media is very different from what it was in the 80s.


How did that sentence survive TWO edits?!?

Laughing
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CBears019


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ForteOz wrote:
CBears019 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
ForteOz wrote:
Not that I would want us to take Manziel or any QB at #14 (I would rather we trade it and profit), but of the 99 problems that can result from drafting any 1st rounder, 'how will the media react' would be about #98 on my board. Right in between eye color and 'does he like country music?'

Also, we've already seen a version that drama play out with McCown last year, and the coaching staff had no problem making the call to stick with Jay.
There is little chance that John M even gets out of the top five, so it is a worry we won't have. And anyone allowing the loathesome media to interfere with anything is incapable of leading the Bears to a Super Bowl. That is one reason why Ditka was successful, he hated those idiots as much as I do. The way certain people talk about a team, it is as if they are a bunch of teenage girls ready to get in a snit about things they have no say in. "Oooh, you drafted a QB, don't you think I'm pretty enough?"


But media in '85 and media today are so vastly different; today media is so much more intrusive. Today with Twitter, Facebook, etc. players are just as much a part of "the media" as your traditional journalists are. If a player gets upset with his role and rants about it online certain teammates may agree with him, others disagree. If it's over an issue as big as who should the starting QB be, that could cause a locker room rift, thus leading to a distraction/loss of focus.

EDIT: I envision the media hype surrounding Manziel being very Tebow-esque. I don't know about the rest of you, but I enjoy turning on SportsCenter and not seeing anything about the Bears unless its a recap of their most recent game.

EDIT 2: My example is quite an extreme one, but I'm using it just to illustrate how media is very different from what it was in the 80s.


How did that sentence survive TWO edits?!?

Laughing


Hey hey hey, keep it in context. Laughing
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ForteOz


Joined: 03 Sep 2013
Posts: 811
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBears019 wrote:
ForteOz wrote:
CBears019 wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:
ForteOz wrote:
Not that I would want us to take Manziel or any QB at #14 (I would rather we trade it and profit), but of the 99 problems that can result from drafting any 1st rounder, 'how will the media react' would be about #98 on my board. Right in between eye color and 'does he like country music?'

Also, we've already seen a version that drama play out with McCown last year, and the coaching staff had no problem making the call to stick with Jay.
There is little chance that John M even gets out of the top five, so it is a worry we won't have. And anyone allowing the loathesome media to interfere with anything is incapable of leading the Bears to a Super Bowl. That is one reason why Ditka was successful, he hated those idiots as much as I do. The way certain people talk about a team, it is as if they are a bunch of teenage girls ready to get in a snit about things they have no say in. "Oooh, you drafted a QB, don't you think I'm pretty enough?"


But media in '85 and media today are so vastly different; today media is so much more intrusive. Today with Twitter, Facebook, etc. players are just as much a part of "the media" as your traditional journalists are. If a player gets upset with his role and rants about it online certain teammates may agree with him, others disagree. If it's over an issue as big as who should the starting QB be, that could cause a locker room rift, thus leading to a distraction/loss of focus.

EDIT: I envision the media hype surrounding Manziel being very Tebow-esque. I don't know about the rest of you, but I enjoy turning on SportsCenter and not seeing anything about the Bears unless its a recap of their most recent game.

EDIT 2: My example is quite an extreme one, but I'm using it just to illustrate how media is very different from what it was in the 80s.


How did that sentence survive TWO edits?!?

Laughing


Hey hey hey, keep it in context. Laughing


Sorry, all of the other words shrunk to an unreadable font size after that...
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ChicagoAl


Joined: 10 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:

Austin was nothing special outside of one game. Not even Johnny Knox good. Knox is one of my favorite players in the last few years, also too small; and also not worth a first round pick even if his ypc for his rookie year doubled Austin's.


I can automatically tell you didnt watch him at all....I'll let you guess why. You didnt even answer my previous question making it even more obvious.
Why would I bother to lie to you when I do not care whether you believe me or not? I do not share the same exalted opinion of your opinion. I watched WV games as I do most major programs. Believe it or not, it won't change the mediocre year Austin had or make it more productive than Johnny Knox's rookie year.

WV started out well its first year in the Big 12 and was ranked no. four at one point at which I decided to pay more attention to them so I watched probably half the rest of their games including Kansas St., A&M, Okl. St. just as I watch all the major programs when there are interesting games.
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChicagoAl wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
ChicagoAl wrote:

Austin was nothing special outside of one game. Not even Johnny Knox good. Knox is one of my favorite players in the last few years, also too small; and also not worth a first round pick even if his ypc for his rookie year doubled Austin's.


I can automatically tell you didnt watch him at all....I'll let you guess why. You didnt even answer my previous question making it even more obvious.
Why would I bother to lie to you when I do not care whether you believe me or not? .


Your right...and I have no idea why I respond to someone who clearly has no clue what he is talking about. Who made a fool of himself last year and proceeds to do the same. I'll make note not to do it again next time.
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IronMike84


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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