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bpastermack


Joined: 17 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:23 pm    Post subject: The more I think about it... Reply with quote

I would be completely OK with Miami taking a QB in the first or second round this year. Not sure I'm a huge Manziel fan, but I could get on board with Bortles, Bridgewater, or Carr in the first or Garapollo in the second. An upgrade at QB is the fastest way to get to more wins. And most of our needs can be handled in other rounds like a RG, RT, and LB.
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Maddogg


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: The more I think about it... Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
I would be completely OK with Miami taking a QB in the first or second round this year. Not sure I'm a huge Manziel fan, but I could get on board with Bortles, Bridgewater, or Carr in the first or Garapollo in the second. An upgrade at QB is the fastest way to get to more wins. And most of our needs can be handled in other rounds like a RG, RT, and LB.



So, are you saying Ryan Tannehill is not a franchise quarterback?
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: The more I think about it... Reply with quote

Maddogg wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
I would be completely OK with Miami taking a QB in the first or second round this year. Not sure I'm a huge Manziel fan, but I could get on board with Bortles, Bridgewater, or Carr in the first or Garapollo in the second. An upgrade at QB is the fastest way to get to more wins. And most of our needs can be handled in other rounds like a RG, RT, and LB.



So, are you saying Ryan Tannehill is not a franchise quarterback?


I'm saying I have my doubts. I wouldn't trade him or bench him without a camp battle, but the simple truth is he has limitations that I'm not sure he can overcome. And if you have doubts then you don't stop looking. I am not a follower of the "Don't create QB controversy" crowd. I want controversy. And I want one guy to finally rise above it and take the reins left behind by Marino.
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Manic


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hard to make a decision about tanny when he had no Oline or running game. He also had just gotten 2 new wrs to get used to and it was only his 2nd season. This year will be a bit more telling even tho it will be in a new system. Full year and full off season with wallace hopefully gets them both on the same page. With new oline (proven LT) and the addition of moreno, Im hoping it will take the pressure off him and allow him to succeed.

So i will disagree about taking a qb early since we have so many other pressing needs. Id still draft one in the mid to later rounds tho, matt moore is stoo expensive to just be calling plays.
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Maddogg


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manic wrote:
hard to make a decision about tanny when he had no Oline or running game. He also had just gotten 2 new wrs to get used to and it was only his 2nd season. This year will be a bit more telling even tho it will be in a new system. Full year and full off season with wallace hopefully gets them both on the same page. With new oline (proven LT) and the addition of moreno, Im hoping it will take the pressure off him and allow him to succeed.

So i will disagree about taking a qb early since we have so many other pressing needs. Id still draft one in the mid to later rounds tho, matt moore is stoo expensive to just be calling plays.



If anything happened to Ryan Tannehill in the form of an injury, I believe near the end of any discussion concerning Matt Moore would be his salary.
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Dolphin Dave


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a big fan of taking a QB high this year. RT has had 2 seasons behind a below average OL and a crap offensive coordinator. I want to see him play his 3rd season without controversy or distraction. Now if he doesn't improve having been given better protection, weapons, and play calling, I'm all in on drafting QB high in 2015.
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Fins20??SBChamp


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not against drafting a QB this year. Although I am not sure any of the top QBs will be there at #19. But if one of them slips and our coach and GM feel like a QB will be the best player available then sure why not take him. I watched every Dolphins game last year and at times watching Tannehill was frustrating. And yes the o-line was terrible but his pocket presence was bad too. And we all know about his deep ball accuracy issues. Also I believe Philbin already said they will be looking to add a QB in the draft.
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Jaytotha


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My take is if Bortles or Bridgewater fall then we take them. I would even take Garoppolo in the 2nd. With them in competition with Tannehill we can hopefully come away with a franchise QB. If Tannehill cracks under the pressure than he was never going to break it. The long ball is also concerning how even in college he struggled.
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mountainpd


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem drafting a QB in the 3rd or 4th round but would like to address oline and LB in 1 and 2.

Mosley
Moses
Garapollo

Would be very nice.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fins20??SBChamp wrote:
I am not against drafting a QB this year. Although I am not sure any of the top QBs will be there at #19. But if one of them slips and our coach and GM feel like a QB will be the best player available then sure why not take him. I watched every Dolphins game last year and at times watching Tannehill was frustrating. And yes the o-line was terrible but his pocket presence was bad too. And we all know about his deep ball accuracy issues. Also I believe Philbin already said they will be looking to add a QB in the draft.


That's the thing. On average the pass blocking on our O-line was average. The number of hurries and hits was similar to most teams, but the number of sacks was much higher. Despite Tannehill's athleticism, his pocket presence will never be elite. Even Marino and Brady had great pocket presence. Thye knew just where to move and shift in the pocket to buy enough time to make the throw and they got the ball out quick.

I reject the idea that you can't really see what you have in a QB until you have a run game. Marino NEVER had a run game. No one would have doubted for a minute he was a franchise QB once he started playing. You can evaluate how a QB throws and where his weaknesses are even if his receivers or run game are subpar. The same way you would a draft prospect. We have two whole years to evaluate. And while he has had slight improvements, his problems persist. This is my list of problems that I think have little to do with the O-line or lack of a run game...

1. Pocket presence. He doesn't feel pressure well, and when he does, he doesn't seem to know what to do. He doesn't set up a block to buy time. He doesn't tuck it and run when he should. When he does, he usually runs right into the pressure. And he too often doesn't seem to recognize when a blitz is coming.

2. He can't throw an accurate deep ball. This is a major flaw. And it has been a flaw since he was in college. He doesn't seem to have improved it at all since then.

3. He tends to be very robotic. If a play breaks down it's pretty rare that he makes something great happen. Either he hits one of the designed receivers or he throws it away. There is no game-maker in him. Those skills you see in guys like Manziel, RGIII, Rothlisburger, Brees, just don't seem to be in him.

4. I still am not sold on his leadership. I wouldn't call it a weakness, but I wouldn't call it a strength either.

5. The game is still a little too fast for him. This is something he improved on and may continue to improve on, but at the moment he needs to get better.

One thing he has improved is his middle of the field accuracy.
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ovaw8lover


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: The more I think about it... Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
Maddogg wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
I would be completely OK with Miami taking a QB in the first or second round this year. Not sure I'm a huge Manziel fan, but I could get on board with Bortles, Bridgewater, or Carr in the first or Garapollo in the second. An upgrade at QB is the fastest way to get to more wins. And most of our needs can be handled in other rounds like a RG, RT, and LB.



So, are you saying Ryan Tannehill is not a franchise quarterback?


I'm saying I have my doubts. I wouldn't trade him or bench him without a camp battle, but the simple truth is he has limitations that I'm not sure he can overcome. And if you have doubts then you don't stop looking. I am not a follower of the "Don't create QB controversy" crowd. I want controversy. And I want one guy to finally rise above it and take the reins left behind by Marino.


I agree 100%. I love Manziel but the next best QB IMHO is Murray out of Georgia. I also like Mettenberger although QB's with those sort of crazy last names never become franchise QB's Laughing
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Maddogg


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bpastermack wrote:
Fins20??SBChamp wrote:
I am not against drafting a QB this year. Although I am not sure any of the top QBs will be there at #19. But if one of them slips and our coach and GM feel like a QB will be the best player available then sure why not take him. I watched every Dolphins game last year and at times watching Tannehill was frustrating. And yes the o-line was terrible but his pocket presence was bad too. And we all know about his deep ball accuracy issues. Also I believe Philbin already said they will be looking to add a QB in the draft.


That's the thing. On average the pass blocking on our O-line was average. The number of hurries and hits was similar to most teams, but the number of sacks was much higher. Despite Tannehill's athleticism, his pocket presence will never be elite. Even Marino and Brady had great pocket presence. Thye knew just where to move and shift in the pocket to buy enough time to make the throw and they got the ball out quick.

I reject the idea that you can't really see what you have in a QB until you have a run game. Marino NEVER had a run game. No one would have doubted for a minute he was a franchise QB once he started playing. You can evaluate how a QB throws and where his weaknesses are even if his receivers or run game are subpar. The same way you would a draft prospect. We have two whole years to evaluate. And while he has had slight improvements, his problems persist. This is my list of problems that I think have little to do with the O-line or lack of a run game...

1. Pocket presence. He doesn't feel pressure well, and when he does, he doesn't seem to know what to do. He doesn't set up a block to buy time. He doesn't tuck it and run when he should. When he does, he usually runs right into the pressure. And he too often doesn't seem to recognize when a blitz is coming.

2. He can't throw an accurate deep ball. This is a major flaw. And it has been a flaw since he was in college. He doesn't seem to have improved it at all since then.

3. He tends to be very robotic. If a play breaks down it's pretty rare that he makes something great happen. Either he hits one of the designed receivers or he throws it away. There is no game-maker in him. Those skills you see in guys like Manziel, RGIII, Rothlisburger, Brees, just don't seem to be in him.

4. I still am not sold on his leadership. I wouldn't call it a weakness, but I wouldn't call it a strength either.

5. The game is still a little too fast for him. This is something he improved on and may continue to improve on, but at the moment he needs to get better.

One thing he has improved is his middle of the field accuracy.


I guess Tannehill should not expect a Christmas Card from you this year.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maddogg wrote:
bpastermack wrote:
Fins20??SBChamp wrote:
I am not against drafting a QB this year. Although I am not sure any of the top QBs will be there at #19. But if one of them slips and our coach and GM feel like a QB will be the best player available then sure why not take him. I watched every Dolphins game last year and at times watching Tannehill was frustrating. And yes the o-line was terrible but his pocket presence was bad too. And we all know about his deep ball accuracy issues. Also I believe Philbin already said they will be looking to add a QB in the draft.


That's the thing. On average the pass blocking on our O-line was average. The number of hurries and hits was similar to most teams, but the number of sacks was much higher. Despite Tannehill's athleticism, his pocket presence will never be elite. Even Marino and Brady had great pocket presence. Thye knew just where to move and shift in the pocket to buy enough time to make the throw and they got the ball out quick.

I reject the idea that you can't really see what you have in a QB until you have a run game. Marino NEVER had a run game. No one would have doubted for a minute he was a franchise QB once he started playing. You can evaluate how a QB throws and where his weaknesses are even if his receivers or run game are subpar. The same way you would a draft prospect. We have two whole years to evaluate. And while he has had slight improvements, his problems persist. This is my list of problems that I think have little to do with the O-line or lack of a run game...

1. Pocket presence. He doesn't feel pressure well, and when he does, he doesn't seem to know what to do. He doesn't set up a block to buy time. He doesn't tuck it and run when he should. When he does, he usually runs right into the pressure. And he too often doesn't seem to recognize when a blitz is coming.

2. He can't throw an accurate deep ball. This is a major flaw. And it has been a flaw since he was in college. He doesn't seem to have improved it at all since then.

3. He tends to be very robotic. If a play breaks down it's pretty rare that he makes something great happen. Either he hits one of the designed receivers or he throws it away. There is no game-maker in him. Those skills you see in guys like Manziel, RGIII, Rothlisburger, Brees, just don't seem to be in him.

4. I still am not sold on his leadership. I wouldn't call it a weakness, but I wouldn't call it a strength either.

5. The game is still a little too fast for him. This is something he improved on and may continue to improve on, but at the moment he needs to get better.

One thing he has improved is his middle of the field accuracy.


I guess Tannehill should not expect a Christmas Card from you this year.


No, I actually like Tannehill. I liked John Beck too though. Doesn't mean he was a franchise QB.
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Vachon777


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could live with a mid-round project guy, but frankly there isn't a QB in this years draft I'd be interested in period. I watch Bridgewater's highlights and see Mike Tomczak at best, but somehow he's Tom Brady to the masses already. Tannehill's done very well under VERY adverse conditions and deserves a chance to play with some blocking and maybe a hint of a running game.
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green4gulf


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like Bridgewater that much but I would probably draft him if he were still available at 19. Of the top three QBs I see him as the most likely to drop.

I would absolutely draft Manziel or Boyles at 19.

I didn't like Tannehill when we drafted him, but he has done better than I thought he would. Even if our OLine play drastically improves this season I wouldn't be surprised if Tannehill regressed. Word is out that he can't throw the long ball, and if he doesn't start connecting deep then Defenses will just continue to cover half the field and stack against the run.
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