Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

NFCE Discussion Corner 3
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 17, 18, 19 ... 97, 98, 99  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Philadelphia Eagles
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Broadway Joe


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 7735
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Poloc2289 wrote:
Shockey1979 wrote:
MaddHatter wrote:

And every Giant fan on this forum trying to pawn him off or talking about trading him every chance they got was a sign of how great he was?


When was this?

FFMD's.
They were trying to get rid of him for peanuts

FFMD isn't as popular on the Giants forum as it is for other teams. It's run by a few posters who I presume are young. They took Justin Gilbert 12th overall a week after the Giants signed DRC and Walter Thurmond in real life. And I believe they tried to trade Prince for no other reason than there is not enough playing time for 4 corners, and they wanted additional picks. The fact that Maddhatter is basing his analysis of a player off of what a few people tried to do in FFMD, is very telling.

And to wrap up the whole debate, "good" is a pretty general term. My definition of what is a "good" player is probably a little more lax some of yours. It's hard for people to believe that Aaron Ross and Mathias Kiwanuka were once good players, because at this point they are long in the tooth. But in his prime, Kiwanuka had a 8 sack season, and two 6 sack seasons. In 2011 he had 84 tackles. He was part of the 4 DE passrush that was so feared for many years. I would say that's more than a "marginal impact".


And that's good... For a 2nd-3rd rounder.
_________________

Thanks to Braylon4MVP for the sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gmen


Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 15737
Location: Myyyyy precioussss
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broadway Joe wrote:
And that's good... For a 2nd-3rd rounder.

Well he was the 32nd overall pick, so he was close to being a second round pick. Regardless, he was a better player than 10 of the players drafted before him in that first round. And he was better than all but probably 8 players that went in the second round of that draft. So considering position, and the players that went around him, it was a good pick IMO. If we took him in the top 15, would I have higher expectations? Certainly.
_________________


"Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic."

- Ernie Accorsi scouting report of Eli
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jroc04


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 11300
Location: South Jersey
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In this case, even with a loose understanding of "good", good player =/= good pick.

Mathias having been once considered "good", even by Gmen's lax definition, still doesn't make it a good pick. He never started and never had sustained success at a high level as a first rounder should.

I hate having discussions about players of opposing teams with forum members of said teams. It's like trying to convince a father his kid is ugly.

Your kid is ugly.
_________________

Phire sig - 808 avy
808 wrote:
Jroc offers a voice of reason, and that's why I care about him so much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gmen


Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 15737
Location: Myyyyy precioussss
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jroc04 wrote:
In this case, even with a loose understanding of "good", good player =/= good pick.

Mathias having been once considered "good", even by Gmen's lax definition, still doesn't make it a good pick. He never started and never had sustained success at a high level as a first rounder should.

I hate having discussions about players of opposing teams with forum members of said teams. It's like trying to convince a father his kid is ugly.

Your kid is ugly.

He never started? He started 71 games. Including all 16 at RE when Osi went down in 2008. You think the Giants would keep a player incapable of starting for 8 years?

And my kid has inner beauty!
_________________


"Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic."

- Ernie Accorsi scouting report of Eli
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jroc04


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 11300
Location: South Jersey
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Jroc04 wrote:
In this case, even with a loose understanding of "good", good player =/= good pick.

Mathias having been once considered "good", even by Gmen's lax definition, still doesn't make it a good pick. He never started and never had sustained success at a high level as a first rounder should.

I hate having discussions about players of opposing teams with forum members of said teams. It's like trying to convince a father his kid is ugly.

Your kid is ugly.

He never started? He started 71 games. Including all 16 at RE when Osi went down in 2008. You think the Giants would keep a player incapable of starting for 8 years?

And my kid has inner beauty!


I stand corrected.

I guess starting due to injury and spot starting is still starting. I looked at him as rotational more than a starter.
_________________

Phire sig - 808 avy
808 wrote:
Jroc offers a voice of reason, and that's why I care about him so much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gmen


Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 15737
Location: Myyyyy precioussss
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Giants did him a disservice by asking him to lose weight and play LB. But when you have Strahan, Tuck and Osi, that was kind of the only way to get him onto the field at that time.

Anyway, Giants are picking a HOFer at 12. As soon as you hear the name, start carving his bust for Canton. Laughing
_________________


"Has courage and poise. In my opinion, most of all, he has that quality you can't define. Call it magic."

- Ernie Accorsi scouting report of Eli
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jroc04


Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 11300
Location: South Jersey
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
I think the Giants did him a disservice by asking him to lose weight and play LB. But when you have Strahan, Tuck and Osi, that was kind of the only way to get him onto the field at that time.

Anyway, Giants are picking a HOFer at 12. As soon as you hear the name, start carving his bust for Canton. Laughing


Which makes me question the pick even more. But that's a good point.

And your kid at 12 will still be ugly.
_________________

Phire sig - 808 avy
808 wrote:
Jroc offers a voice of reason, and that's why I care about him so much.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Broadway Joe


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 7735
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Broadway Joe wrote:
And that's good... For a 2nd-3rd rounder.

Well he was the 32nd overall pick, so he was close to being a second round pick. Regardless, he was a better player than 10 of the players drafted before him in that first round. And he was better than all but probably 8 players that went in the second round of that draft. So considering position, and the players that went around him, it was a good pick IMO. If we took him in the top 15, would I have higher expectations? Certainly.


And Mike Patterson was the 31st and contributed more still we consider him a meh pick. I think your definition of good pick is: Not a complete bust.
_________________

Thanks to Braylon4MVP for the sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Billy Spikes


Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 40506
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what the Redskins were busy with since they had no first round pick:

http://tracking.si.com/2014/05/09/redskins-send-lavar-arrington-cease-desist-letter/
_________________
#JDI
Official Roster Cutdowns Thread
All Time Top Ten Safeties Ranking
Tom Brady Tribute
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RandyMossIsBoss


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 18806
Location: Can't talk
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin was a great pick for Cowboys... ugh really wish they took JFF instead.

Thrilled with Giants pick though, can't believe they passed up on Donald. OBJ was the 3rd best WR in my eyes, but at 12 that was pretty damn early. Would have been a decent pick still if not for the fact they could have had Donald.
_________________


~Bird Watch 2014 | Nick Foles~
1,628 yards, 10 TDs, 7 INTs, 82.0 Passer Rating
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hammertime52


Joined: 15 Jan 2012
Posts: 10896
Location: South Jersey
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
This is what the Redskins were busy with since they had no first round pick:

http://tracking.si.com/2014/05/09/redskins-send-lavar-arrington-cease-desist-letter/


They must have been sooo bored
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nlesthought


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 8416
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
This is what the Redskins were busy with since they had no first round pick:

http://tracking.si.com/2014/05/09/redskins-send-lavar-arrington-cease-desist-letter/


Get em!
_________________


psn: nlesthought l Peppers90 on the sig

Bird Watch '13 - Placekicker #6 - Alex 'the podiatrist' Henery.
22/27 LNG 51yds; 42 XPs; 1 KOR TD given up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shockey1979


Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 20996
Location: RI/MA
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
Martin was a great pick for Cowboys... ugh really wish they took JFF instead.

Thrilled with Giants pick though, can't believe they passed up on Donald. OBJ was the 3rd best WR in my eyes, but at 12 that was pretty damn early. Would have been a decent pick still if not for the fact they could have had Donald.


Agreed

I didn't see the WR corps as a huge need going into this. I figured they would take a receiver to replace Nicks eventually in the draft but not in the first. Randle and Cruz are solid starters and with Manningham and Jernigan they had decent depth. If it was Evans at 12 I could understand passing on Donald because we lack a big target. But adding another average height receiver just seems vexing.
_________________

"Sundown, you better take care... if I find you been creepin' round my back stairs"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Broadway Joe


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 7735
Location: Point Place, Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shockey1979 wrote:
RandyMossIsBoss wrote:
Martin was a great pick for Cowboys... ugh really wish they took JFF instead.

Thrilled with Giants pick though, can't believe they passed up on Donald. OBJ was the 3rd best WR in my eyes, but at 12 that was pretty damn early. Would have been a decent pick still if not for the fact they could have had Donald.


Agreed

I didn't see the WR corps as a huge need going into this. I figured they would take a receiver to replace Nicks eventually in the draft but not in the first. Randle and Cruz are solid starters and with Manningham and Jernigan they had decent depth. If it was Evans at 12 I could understand passing on Donald because we lack a big target. But adding another average height receiver just seems vexing.


I like OBJ and I wish he wasn't drafted by a rival. But he is just to similar to Cruz IMO, thought they'd go for a different style.

Then again, this might be a McAddoo style of player.
_________________

Thanks to Braylon4MVP for the sig!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iron Eagle


Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Billy Spikes wrote:
This is what the Redskins were busy with since they had no first round pick:

http://tracking.si.com/2014/05/09/redskins-send-lavar-arrington-cease-desist-letter/





That is pretty damn ridiculous on the Skins part.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Philadelphia Eagles All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 17, 18, 19 ... 97, 98, 99  Next
Page 18 of 99

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group