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Gmen


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Injuries happen. But aside from David Wilson, in the past ten years, you can't point to a single first round pick by the Giants and say that he was a bad player.

2004 Eli Manning - GOAT. No explanation needed.

2006 Mathias Kiwanuka - Not spectacular. But that fact that he's on the team 8 years later says something.

2007 Aaron Ross - Had multiple good years in two separate stints with the Giants. Big contribution as a rookie in the 2007 SB run.

2008 Kenny Phillips - Had one great year and on the verge of becoming a probowler before the knee issue.

2009 Hakeem Nicks - Had two very good seasons. Set the record for receiving yards in 2011 playoffs (at the time). Wouldn't have won the SB without him.

2010 Jason Pierre Paul - Had the most dominating single season by a DE I have ever seen. And the Giants have had some good ones. Injuries have hurt him lately.

2011 Prince Amukamara - Has played at a #1 CB caliber the last two years.

2012 David Wilson - A self proclaimed HOF.

2013 Justin Pugh - Had a very good rookie year.


So 8 out of 9 first round picks have been a good player. I like our odds. Picking at 12, that's our highest draft position in the Eli / Coughlin era. In a good draft, I expect we'll get a good player.
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Jroc04


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta love the homer view on that.

"Player X had two good years so that means it was good."

I'd like to see you grade these picks one at a time. Then I'll tell you if your blue and red undies are on too tight.
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Broadway Joe


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Injuries happen. But aside from David Wilson, in the past ten years, you can't point to a single first round pick by the Giants and say that he was a bad player.

2004 Eli Manning - GOAT. No explanation needed.

2006 Mathias Kiwanuka - Not spectacular. But that fact that he's on the team 8 years later says something.

2007 Aaron Ross - Had multiple good years in two separate stints with the Giants. Big contribution as a rookie in the 2007 SB run.

2008 Kenny Phillips - Had one great year and on the verge of becoming a probowler before the knee issue.

2009 Hakeem Nicks - Had two very good seasons. Set the record for receiving yards in 2011 playoffs (at the time). Wouldn't have won the SB without him.

2010 Jason Pierre Paul - Had the most dominating single season by a DE I have ever seen. And the Giants have had some good ones. Injuries have hurt him lately.

2011 Prince Amukamara - Has played at a #1 CB caliber the last two years.

2012 David Wilson - A self proclaimed HOF.

2013 Justin Pugh - Had a very good rookie year.


So 8 out of 9 first round picks have been a good player. I like our odds. Picking at 12, that's our highest draft position in the Eli / Coughlin era. In a good draft, I expect we'll get a good player.


I don't think it's 8 out of 9. You are obviously being a homer if you count limited contributions like Kiwanuka, Phillips, Ross as good players since it was only for a very limited time.

The Giants are damn good drafters but you are reaching by calling 8 out of 9 as good players. I understand your optimism and it's granted but your comment about effectiveness it's a bit exaggerated.
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ninjapirate


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Injuries happen. But aside from David Wilson, in the past ten years, you can't point to a single first round pick by the Giants and say that he was a bad player.

2004 Eli Manning - GOAT. No explanation needed.

2006 Mathias Kiwanuka - Not spectacular. But that fact that he's on the team 8 years later says something.

2007 Aaron Ross - Had multiple good years in two separate stints with the Giants. Big contribution as a rookie in the 2007 SB run.

2008 Kenny Phillips - Had one great year and on the verge of becoming a probowler before the knee issue.

2009 Hakeem Nicks - Had two very good seasons. Set the record for receiving yards in 2011 playoffs (at the time). Wouldn't have won the SB without him.

2010 Jason Pierre Paul - Had the most dominating single season by a DE I have ever seen. And the Giants have had some good ones. Injuries have hurt him lately.

2011 Prince Amukamara - Has played at a #1 CB caliber the last two years.

2012 David Wilson - A self proclaimed HOF.

2013 Justin Pugh - Had a very good rookie year.


So 8 out of 9 first round picks have been a good player. I like our odds. Picking at 12, that's our highest draft position in the Eli / Coughlin era. In a good draft, I expect we'll get a good player.



That's actually a pretty crappy list. Seems like all of your guys get washed up really quick.
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McNabbMcFadden


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Injuries happen. But aside from David Wilson, in the past ten years, you can't point to a single first round pick by the Giants and say that he was a bad player.


All solid players, but I can't say any of them have been very consistent. Still I'll give you this, you guys have drafted better than Andy that's for sure. Starting in 2012 I believe Andy was no longer the lead drafter, Howie took over that responsibility more or less.
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RandyMossIsBoss


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ninjapirate wrote:
Gmen wrote:
Injuries happen. But aside from David Wilson, in the past ten years, you can't point to a single first round pick by the Giants and say that he was a bad player.

2004 Eli Manning - GOAT. No explanation needed.

2006 Mathias Kiwanuka - Not spectacular. But that fact that he's on the team 8 years later says something.

2007 Aaron Ross - Had multiple good years in two separate stints with the Giants. Big contribution as a rookie in the 2007 SB run.

2008 Kenny Phillips - Had one great year and on the verge of becoming a probowler before the knee issue.

2009 Hakeem Nicks - Had two very good seasons. Set the record for receiving yards in 2011 playoffs (at the time). Wouldn't have won the SB without him.

2010 Jason Pierre Paul - Had the most dominating single season by a DE I have ever seen. And the Giants have had some good ones. Injuries have hurt him lately.

2011 Prince Amukamara - Has played at a #1 CB caliber the last two years.

2012 David Wilson - A self proclaimed HOF.

2013 Justin Pugh - Had a very good rookie year.


So 8 out of 9 first round picks have been a good player. I like our odds. Picking at 12, that's our highest draft position in the Eli / Coughlin era. In a good draft, I expect we'll get a good player.



That's actually a pretty crappy list. Seems like all of your guys get washed up really quick.
That was my initial thought, but then you look at our last 9 and gain some perspective...

2003 Jerome McDougle

2004 Shawn Andrews

2005 Mike Patterson

2006 Brodrick Bunkley

2009 Jeremy Maclin

2010 Brandan Graham

2011 Danny Watkins

2012 Fletcher Cox

2013 Lane Johnson

:-&... at least Andy's gone
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Jroc04


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arguably just as good. I mean, if you grade as Gmen would. It's easily comparable. IMO.

The glaring difference is the franchise QB. That's head and shoulders the better crop just because of Eli.

His Kiwi explanation can be used for Fat Pat but really, would anyone consider Fat Pat a good first rounder?
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RandyMossIsBoss


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's close, but I'd break it down as such


Good Picks
Eagles- 4 (Maclin, Cox, Lane, Shawn)

Giants- 5 (Eli, JPP, Prince, Pugh, Nicks)


Meh Picks
Eagles- 3 (Graham, Bunkley, Patterson)

Giants- 3 (Kiwanuka, Kenny, Ross)


Bad Picks
Eagles- 2 (McDougle, Watkins)

Giants- 1 (Wilson)


Seasons of high level starter play
Eagles- 4 (Shawn Andrews/3, Maclin/1)

Giants- 9 (Eli Manning/4, Nicks/2, JPP/1, Kenny/1, Prince/1)
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RainbowCarebear


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good breakdown RMIB
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Art_Vandalay


Joined: 04 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How was Graham not a BAD pick? Especially considering we traded up 11 spots to get him and the next 11 picks looked like this:

14. Earl Thomas
15. JPP
16. Derrick Morgan
17. Mike Iupati
18. Maurkice Pouncey
19. Sean Weatherspoon
20. Kareem Jackson
21. Jermaine Gresham
22. Demaryius Thomas
23. Bryan Bulaga
24. Dez Bryant
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MaddHatter


Joined: 29 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gmen wrote:
Injuries happen. But aside from David Wilson, in the past ten years, you can't point to a single first round pick by the Giants and say that he was a bad player.


LOLWUT?

Ross - sucks
Prince - bad


That's just two off the top of my head
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Jroc04


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, what's the criteria?

If you draft a stud but he happens to be injury prone and can't stay on the field. And then is off the team by year 3 or 4 is that a good pick. If you got a year and a half of pro bowl level play out of him and he's off the team a few injury riddled years later, was that better than a backup that played ok for a decade.

Are we judging by drafting talent or how that talent performed in the NFL?

Like Andrews was a clear first round talent. And because of his back (rap career and lack of ambition, really) his career was derailed and ended. Thus, to me, making him a bust. But the guy who drafted him had a good read on him. Would that go against your grading? Or is that considered a good pick?

I'd much rather have Patterson's career than Andrews'.

And Graham was a bad pick.

And I would consider value very important. Even though Kiwi has had a serviceable career for the Giants, he isn't a first round talent. And even though he's been productive, that doesn't mean that's a good 1st round pick.
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaddHatter wrote:
Gmen wrote:
Injuries happen. But aside from David Wilson, in the past ten years, you can't point to a single first round pick by the Giants and say that he was a bad player.


LOLWUT?

Ross - sucks
Prince - bad


That's just two off the top of my head


You really think Prince is bad? I don't really know how to rank CB's. Doesn't seem to be one all encompassing stat to look at. But just messing around on google.

http://wp.advancedfootballanalytics.com/defenderstats.php?year=2013&pos=CB&season=reg

He seems to be middle of the pack on most of those. Seems like his overall numbers are pretty on par with Patrick Peterson for the 2013 season (no I am not saying Prince is better then Peterson) just perspective. Is there a CB you typically go by?

Ross is absolutely garbage though.
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Shockey1979


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jroc04 wrote:
And I would consider value very important. Even though Kiwi has had a serviceable career for the Giants, he isn't a first round talent. And even though he's been productive, that doesn't mean that's a good 1st round pick.


I guess to really know we would need a study of 1st round picks and their average career span and how many "good" years. Which "good" is highly subjective so there's no way we could truly ever have an unbiased study.
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Art_Vandalay


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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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