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Mudderfudder77


Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Mudderfudder77 wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
I go corner for sure. The CB market in the NFL right now is getting a ton of money. Draft Tillman's replacement for next year.


I'm not opposed to the idea of going CB in the 1st of the value is there.. I just don't know how I feel about drafting a guy in the 1st who's going to sit behind and learn from someone for a year.

Ideally you want an immediate impact starter from day 1 with that pick.


He can play Nickel year one and still be an immediate impact player.


Well I don't expect that to happen after reading this.

Brad Biggs wrote:
Coach Marc Trestman said Wednesday that Kelvin Hayden, who sat out all last season after suffering a torn hamstring in the first week of August during a practice at Soldier Field, will compete with Isaiah Frey for the role when OTAs begin this spring.



Because Kelvin Hayden & isiah Frey are going to prevent you from taking the best player on the board (hypothetically)?

I'm sure Trestman mentioned those two because they are the only DB's currently on the roster who have a legit chance to win the job.

If they draft Gilbert, or Dennard, I expect them to play. Whether that means in Nickel, or outside while TJ slides inside in nickel - I don't think they'll get Lovie red-shirted.
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thebeast15


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If gilbert is on the board at 14..... There is no way I am not taking him.
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ForteOz


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
RTD wrote:
I'm not seeing where adding a DE satifies the need we have at UT. Allen is a very good player but is still a rotational DE at this stage of his career. Its a great signing because it gives us 3 starter grade DE that can rotate to stay fresh. The DT / UT position still needs a starter unless you are using Collins. So imo DT is still on the draft board very early along with CB and S.


We are assuming that signing allen shifts Houston in to UT, where he is probably better suited. If they plan to use Willie Young as just a situational guy, and have Houston at LE, then UT is still most definitely a huge need.

If Donald and Clinton-Dix are both there at 14 and Emery doesn't pick either of them this place is going to go bonkers.


And if Emery has taught us anything so far, that is exactly what will happen.
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ChicagoAl


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
RTD wrote:
I'm not seeing where adding a DE satifies the need we have at UT. Allen is a very good player but is still a rotational DE at this stage of his career. Its a great signing because it gives us 3 starter grade DE that can rotate to stay fresh. The DT / UT position still needs a starter unless you are using Collins. So imo DT is still on the draft board very early along with CB and S.

It's definitely still on the list but I think it's behind the corner and safety now. We have added six free agents along the defensive line and all we have done to address our terrible secondary is bring in two guys who may not even be starters at safety and re-sign Charles Tillman going into his 13th season. To me safety is now by far the biggest need on our defense, and I think that cornerback is a close second given the age of the guys we have and virtually no depth behind them.

It's worth noting that our defensive line did not start giving up absurd rushing totals until after Briggs and Williams both got hurt. That also includes a time. Where Ratliff was not even yet on the team. Our current guys at DT are competent professionals at least even if they are not spectacular but now that they are also surrounded by good players on the outside and have competent healthy linebackers behind them they should be adequate if called upon to start for us.

With that said I do agree that we will add another DT at some point in the draft.
Emery has definitely provided us with flexibility in this draft and has improved the line greatly. My preferences now are a trade down to pick up more picks or, if a Tommie Harris is available, picking a DT with that first pick or at least a second. Before Emery's wheeling and dealing I wanted TWO DTs from the draft. I now expect the draft to include a DT, CB, S, C and LB with perhaps three DBs in the mix. If the QB is lying under a pile of DLinemen my grandmother can play DB and it won't matter. Plus, I would not be surprised to see another fairly big FA or two after the post-draft cuts start.
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Madmike90


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
RTD wrote:
I'm not seeing where adding a DE satifies the need we have at UT. Allen is a very good player but is still a rotational DE at this stage of his career. Its a great signing because it gives us 3 starter grade DE that can rotate to stay fresh. The DT / UT position still needs a starter unless you are using Collins. So imo DT is still on the draft board very early along with CB and S.


We are assuming that signing allen shifts Houston in to UT, where he is probably better suited. If they plan to use Willie Young as just a situational guy, and have Houston at LE, then UT is still most definitely a huge need.

If Donald and Clinton-Dix are both there at 14 and Emery doesn't pick either of them this place is going to go bonkers.


I actually think if Donald, Gilbert & HaHa are all still on the board he would take Gilbert if his past is anything to go by…he has the perfect HWS measurements for the position along with his other athletic traits…he can also take the ball away as a playmaker…

I’m just not sure Emery values the safety position enough to take a guy in the 1st round…when you look at the safeties we were linked with this year there was never a Byrd or Ward in the conversation…all middle of the road solid guys.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
RTD wrote:
I'm not seeing where adding a DE satifies the need we have at UT. Allen is a very good player but is still a rotational DE at this stage of his career. Its a great signing because it gives us 3 starter grade DE that can rotate to stay fresh. The DT / UT position still needs a starter unless you are using Collins. So imo DT is still on the draft board very early along with CB and S.


We are assuming that signing allen shifts Houston in to UT, where he is probably better suited. If they plan to use Willie Young as just a situational guy, and have Houston at LE, then UT is still most definitely a huge need.

If Donald and Clinton-Dix are both there at 14 and Emery doesn't pick either of them this place is going to go bonkers.


I actually think if Donald, Gilbert & HaHa are all still on the board he would take Gilbert if his past is anything to go by…he has the perfect HWS measurements for the position along with his other athletic traits…he can also take the ball away as a playmaker…

I’m just not sure Emery values the safety position enough to take a guy in the 1st round…when you look at the safeties we were linked with this year there was never a Byrd or Ward in the conversation…all middle of the road solid guys.


Maybe it's because he knew he wanted to target a guy like Haha or Pryor in the 1st as it'd be a way cheaper alternative than signing those high priced FAs, where he could instead use those financial resources to invest in the d-line like he did by adding Houston, Young and Allen?
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
RTD wrote:
I'm not seeing where adding a DE satifies the need we have at UT. Allen is a very good player but is still a rotational DE at this stage of his career. Its a great signing because it gives us 3 starter grade DE that can rotate to stay fresh. The DT / UT position still needs a starter unless you are using Collins. So imo DT is still on the draft board very early along with CB and S.


We are assuming that signing allen shifts Houston in to UT, where he is probably better suited. If they plan to use Willie Young as just a situational guy, and have Houston at LE, then UT is still most definitely a huge need.

If Donald and Clinton-Dix are both there at 14 and Emery doesn't pick either of them this place is going to go bonkers.


I actually think if Donald, Gilbert & HaHa are all still on the board he would take Gilbert if his past is anything to go by…he has the perfect HWS measurements for the position along with his other athletic traits…he can also take the ball away as a playmaker…

I’m just not sure Emery values the safety position enough to take a guy in the 1st round…when you look at the safeties we were linked with this year there was never a Byrd or Ward in the conversation…all middle of the road solid guys.


Maybe it's because he knew he wanted to target a guy like Haha or Pryor in the 1st as it'd be a way cheaper alternative than signing those high priced FAs, where he could instead use those financial resources to invest in the d-line like he did by adding Houston, Young and Allen?


Of course that could be a reason…but what he said about Conte also backs up that we might not be looking safety early…he said he wanted Conte to compete for a starting job…if he drafts a guy in the 1st round that competition is over before it began.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madmike90 wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
RTD wrote:
I'm not seeing where adding a DE satifies the need we have at UT. Allen is a very good player but is still a rotational DE at this stage of his career. Its a great signing because it gives us 3 starter grade DE that can rotate to stay fresh. The DT / UT position still needs a starter unless you are using Collins. So imo DT is still on the draft board very early along with CB and S.


We are assuming that signing allen shifts Houston in to UT, where he is probably better suited. If they plan to use Willie Young as just a situational guy, and have Houston at LE, then UT is still most definitely a huge need.

If Donald and Clinton-Dix are both there at 14 and Emery doesn't pick either of them this place is going to go bonkers.


I actually think if Donald, Gilbert & HaHa are all still on the board he would take Gilbert if his past is anything to go by…he has the perfect HWS measurements for the position along with his other athletic traits…he can also take the ball away as a playmaker…

I’m just not sure Emery values the safety position enough to take a guy in the 1st round…when you look at the safeties we were linked with this year there was never a Byrd or Ward in the conversation…all middle of the road solid guys.


Maybe it's because he knew he wanted to target a guy like Haha or Pryor in the 1st as it'd be a way cheaper alternative than signing those high priced FAs, where he could instead use those financial resources to invest in the d-line like he did by adding Houston, Young and Allen?


Of course that could be a reason…but what he said about Conte also backs up that we might not be looking safety early…he said he wanted Conte to compete for a starting job…if he drafts a guy in the 1st round that competition is over before it began.

He said he wanted Conte to compete but didn't specify with whom. Mundy isn't being paid to be a locked in starter and said so himself he expects to compete to be a starter. It's still entirely possible and maybe even likely that they draft HaHa, Pryor or Ward to start at one spot and Conte competes with Mundy for the other.
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Madmike90


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
Madmike90 wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
RTD wrote:
I'm not seeing where adding a DE satifies the need we have at UT. Allen is a very good player but is still a rotational DE at this stage of his career. Its a great signing because it gives us 3 starter grade DE that can rotate to stay fresh. The DT / UT position still needs a starter unless you are using Collins. So imo DT is still on the draft board very early along with CB and S.


We are assuming that signing allen shifts Houston in to UT, where he is probably better suited. If they plan to use Willie Young as just a situational guy, and have Houston at LE, then UT is still most definitely a huge need.

If Donald and Clinton-Dix are both there at 14 and Emery doesn't pick either of them this place is going to go bonkers.


I actually think if Donald, Gilbert & HaHa are all still on the board he would take Gilbert if his past is anything to go by…he has the perfect HWS measurements for the position along with his other athletic traits…he can also take the ball away as a playmaker…

I’m just not sure Emery values the safety position enough to take a guy in the 1st round…when you look at the safeties we were linked with this year there was never a Byrd or Ward in the conversation…all middle of the road solid guys.


Maybe it's because he knew he wanted to target a guy like Haha or Pryor in the 1st as it'd be a way cheaper alternative than signing those high priced FAs, where he could instead use those financial resources to invest in the d-line like he did by adding Houston, Young and Allen?


Of course that could be a reason…but what he said about Conte also backs up that we might not be looking safety early…he said he wanted Conte to compete for a starting job…if he drafts a guy in the 1st round that competition is over before it began.

He said he wanted Conte to compete but didn't specify with whom. Mundy isn't being paid to be a locked in starter and said so himself he expects to compete to be a starter. It's still entirely possible and maybe even likely that they draft HaHa, Pryor or Ward to start at one spot and Conte competes with Mundy for the other.


All three of those potential 1st round safeties are FS more than SS…Conte isn’t going to play SS either…I think Mundy plays SS with Conte & a rookie competing at FS.
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SLCbear


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sugashane wrote:
SLCbear wrote:
Sugashane wrote:
Mudderfudder77 wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
I go corner for sure. The CB market in the NFL right now is getting a ton of money. Draft Tillman's replacement for next year.


I'm not opposed to the idea of going CB in the 1st of the value is there.. I just don't know how I feel about drafting a guy in the 1st who's going to sit behind and learn from someone for a year.

Ideally you want an immediate impact starter from day 1 with that pick.


He can play Nickel year one and still be an immediate impact player.


I'd be fine with a solid CB prospect starting off at FS for this season if it keeps Conte off the field.

So if we have Dennard or Gilbert, start them at FS. If we go nickel formation then let him slide up to nickel and put the next best player at safety.

Honestly I think with us facing Rodgers and Stafford twice a year each, I think a NB will be on the field for over 50% of the defensive snaps. Plenty of reps to make a major impact in itself. But I would love to get them as much time on the field as possible, just depends on how quickly they can digest their assignments, coverages, and everything.


It's the other way around. You draft a S with cover skills to help out in Nickel, not take a rookie and throw him into the fire at new position. Right now, Chris Conte would perform far better at safety than any college corner playing out of position> Pryor can cover the slot pretty well, Clinton-Dix maybe as well.

And as your post implies, there will be plenty of reps for a rookie CB at his natural position anyway.


I have to completely disagree here. Mathieu barely played any safety at all at LSU (then had a year away from football) and there are other safety prospects who played corner in college.


I like your logic <<<< the problem is that these are very different positions, skill sets/muscle memory, fields of view. And besides, you want rookies to develop as calmly as possible.

Athletic freaks like the great Tyrann Mathieu can do about anything they want to on a football field, but any such freak is uncommonly rare ha!
Its very hard for me to imagine any list of names for CBs entering this year's draft that are capable of outplaying 4th yr. Chris Conte at FS <<< who incidentally is coming off of a very poor season and playing for his Football Starting Life.
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G08


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like Chris Conte has always done a terrible job of playing the ball in the air. Am I just remembering with a negative frame of mind or is there credence to this? Multiple bombs last year, a huge whiff against New Orleans a couple of years ago, etc.
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IotaNet


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warning: LONG

I've done some real thinking regarding this draft and based on our options, here’s my thinking. I’ll start by saying that my key premise is that a top 20 pick should land an impact starter – an elite or semi-elite talent.

With that said, there have been several scenarios discussed about what we should do with the 14th pick.
1) Draft Aaron Donald
2) Draft the best corner available
3) Draft the best safety available

Let’s look at what they get you: (BTW, I am not dealing with trades in this scenario. Way too complex and iffy)

1) Draft Aaron Donald at 14
Donald is widely seen as a high motor, high character, high skill, elite talent. He’s won a boatload of awards and he is widely praised by every NFL personnel professional I’ve read. The only knock is that he’s undersized.
* Key Question 1: Does his skillset justify a top 20 pick? Yes
* Key Question 2: Would he be an impact starter – especially in our system? Yes

2) Draft the best Corner available at 14
In the mocks I’ve seen, this would probably be Justin Gilbert or Darqueze Dennard.
* Do their skillsets justify a top 20 pick? Yes
* Would either of them be an impact starter – in our system? No. (Either of them would probably sit behind Tillman and Jennings. They might play some nickel and special teams.)

3) Draft the best Safety available at 14
Based on the way the boards look, this would probably be Clinton-Dix or Pryor
* Do their skillsets justify a top 20 pick? I am not convinced. They seem to be grading out as the best of a relatively weak Safety class. The reviews I read lead me to think they would be serviceable starters but not the kind of players that make anyone drool.
* Would either of them be an impact starter – in our system? They would be upgrades, yes but not incrementally better than what could be had later in the draft (i.e. Ward, Bucannon)


Conclusion:
1) I think our smartest move is to take Donald at 14. Size notwithstanding, he seems to be the surest bet to be an NFL difference maker the moment he steps on the field.
2) I think we then take the best two DB ‘s available with our next two picks. (Pick one corner and one safety – whichever is the best value at that particular pick.)
3) By the time we get to round 4, we can then fill in with another D-Lineman (There will be plenty available by then. Quarles, Ferguson, Etc.)
4) In rounds 5-7, we can pick up a running back and/or a development QB and perhaps a Center.


BOTTOM LINE: We need to make the 14th pick count – and Donald is the best way to do it!


Last edited by IotaNet on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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DaMike


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IotaNet wrote:
Warning: LONG

I’ve done some real thinking regarding this draft and based on our options, here’s my thinking. I’ll start by saying that my key premise is that a top 20 pick should land an impact starter – an elite or semi-elite talent.

With that said, there have been several scenarios discussed about what we should do with the 14th pick.
1) Draft Aaron Donald
2) Draft he best corner available
3) Draft the best safety available

Let’s look at what they get you: (BTW, I am not dealing with trades in this scenario. Way too complex and iffy)

1) Draft Aaron Donald at 14
Donald is widely seen as a high motor, high character, high skill, elite talent. He’s won a boatload of awards and he is widely praised by every NFL personnel professional I’ve read. The only knock is that he’s undersized.
* Key Question 1: Does his skillset justify a top 20 pick? Yes
* Key Question: 2 Would he be an impact starter – especially in our system? Yes

2) Draft the best Corner available at 14
In the mocks I’ve seen, this would probably be Justin Gilbert or Darqueze Dennard.
* Do their skillsets justify a top 20 pick? Yes
* Would either of them be an impact starter – in our system? No. (Either of them would probably sit behind Tillman and Jennings. They might play some nickel and special teams.)

3) Draft the best Safety available at 14
Based on the way the boards look, this would probably be Clinton-Dix or Pryor
* Do their skillsets justify a top 20 pick? I am not convinced. They seem to be grading out as the best of a relatively weak Safety class. The reviews I read lead me to think they would be serviceable starters but not the kind of players that make anyone drool.
* Would either of them be an impact starter – in our system? They would be upgrades, yes but not incrementally better than what could be had later in the draft (i.e. Ward, Bucannon)


Conclusion:
1) I think our smartest move is to take Donald at 14. Size notwithstanding, he seems to be the surest bet to be an NFL difference maker the moment he steps on the field.
2) I think we then take the best two DB ‘s available with our next two picks. (Pick one corner and one safety – whichever is the best value at that particular pick.)
3) By the time we get to round 4, we can then fill in with another D-Lineman (There will be plenty available by then. Quarles, Ferguson, Etc.)
4) In rounds 5-7, we can pick up a running back and/or a development QB and perhaps a Center.


BOTTOM LINE: We need to make the 14th pick count – and Donald is the best way to do it!
Very good read.
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SLCbear


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
I feel like Chris Conte has always done a terrible job of playing the ball in the air. Am I just remembering with a negative frame of mind or is there credence to this? Multiple bombs last year, a huge whiff against New Orleans a couple of years ago, etc.


No offense, negative yes ha <<< but so is everyone else's right now!
Chris Conte has full capacity to be a solid, not special starter on a contending team. He is a rich man's Craig Steltz. He needs better play in front of him to look solid however, and appeared to take an entitlement step back in '13 <I expect to see a vigorously recommitted CC, and subsequent solid play in '14.

Esp if we are able to anchor the line and stay healthy Exclamation
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SLCbear


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IotaNet wrote:
Warning: LONG

I've done some real thinking regarding this draft and based on our options, here’s my thinking. I’ll start by saying that 1. my key premise is that a top 20 pick should land an impact starter – an elite or semi-elite talent.

With that said, there have been several scenarios discussed about what we should do with the 14th pick.
1) Draft Aaron Donald
2) Draft the best corner available
3) Draft the best safety available

Let’s look at what they get you: (BTW, I am not dealing with trades in this scenario. Way too complex and iffy)

agree1) Draft Aaron Donald at 14
Donald is widely seen as a high motor, high character, high skill, elite talent. He’s won a boatload of awards and he is widely praised by every NFL personnel professional I’ve read. The only knock is that he’s undersized.
* Key Question 1: Does his skillset justify a top 20 pick? Yes
* Key Question 2: Would he be an impact starter – especially in our system? Yes

2) Draft the best Corner available at 14
In the mocks I’ve seen, this would probably be Justin Gilbert or Darqueze Dennard.
* Do their skillsets justify a top 20 pick? Yes
*2. Would either of them be an impact starter – in our system? No. (Either of them would probably sit behind Tillman and Jennings. They might play some nickel and special teamx.)

agree3) Draft the best Safety available at 14
Based on the way the boards look, this would probably be Clinton-Dix or Pryor
* Do their skillsets justify a top 20 pick? 3. I am not convinced.[/b] They seem to be grading out as the best of a relatively weak Safety class. The reviews I read lead me to think they would be serviceable starters but not the kind of players that make anyone drool.
* Would either of them be an impact starter – in our system? [b]They would be upgrades,
yes but not incrementally better than what could be had later in the draft (i.e. Ward, Bucannon)


Conclusion:
1) I think 4. our smartest move is to take Donald at 14. Size notwithstanding, he seems to be the surest bet to be an NFL difference maker the moment he steps on the field.
2) I think we then take the best two DB ‘s available with our next two picks. (Pick one corner and one safety – whichever is the best value at that particular pick.)
3) By the time we get to round 4, we can then fill in with another D-Lineman (There will be plenty available by then. Quarles, Ferguson, Etc.)
4) In rounds 5-7, we can pick up a running back and/or a development QB and perhaps a Center.


BOTTOM LINE: We need to make the 14th pick count – and Donald is the best way to do it!


1. You need to get two starters in the first two rounds. The Third and even Fourth may save you, but drafting 2 starters in the first four is the bare minimum for any respectable GM. We need 4 starters out of this draft ha ha> Lucky for us, punters don't get drafted before about the 5th/6th
and Slot threats #3/4s & #2TE are everywhere Cool

2. The answer to this question is yes yes yes!!! An elite CB like Justin Gilbert in Chicago is about the same kind of anomaly as an elite QB in Chicago like Jay Cutler Twisted Evil
Can't wait to finally see the impact of a true Lockdown Corner

3. Yes> either are worth a top 20 pick

4. Gilbert and Nix are the smartest IMO as we have nothing close to either one on the roster, yet need each's strengths immensely Exclamation
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