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A quarterback at 27… What if & why not???
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:58 am    Post subject: A quarterback at 27… What if & why not??? Reply with quote




Stop me if you’ve heard this one before from an NFL GM… “Were going to take the best player available when we pick”.

They all say it, but do they all mean it? What does constitute a prospect being the best available? Is it what he can do for your franchise now or what he can do later? Does the prospect get judged solely on his immediate impact or is his value based on the entirety of his career with the club?

Anyone who knows anything about football will tell you that the quarterback position is the most important position in the sport and any NFL General Manager worth his weight in gold will tell you that the draft is about building the future of your club and free agency is about building its present. This upcoming draft is shaping up to be one of the deepest in recent memory but what does that mean? What is truly the better way to approach a draft like this?

On one hand a franchise can look to add pieces that can hopefully get their team over the hump, but does that really mean you’re taking the best available players if you’re concentrating solely on immediate production? On the other hand a franchise can simply take the best players available long-term when they select, development prospects or not with a broader view towards the future. Which way is the right way and which is the wrong? It’s a debate that has been around since the draft has been and sadly the answer to that question differs from one organization to another with the longevity and job security of the front office calling the shots being a deciding factor towards which side of the line a team may stand on this matter.

For instance… A team like the Raiders with General Manager Reggie McKenzie and Head Coach Dennis Allen calling the shots knowing full well their owner expects a big turnaround in 2014 will likely go into this draft the same way they approached the free agency period, with the intent of landing prospects that will return immediate production. Why? Not because these prospects will be the best players available per say but more so that both McKenzie and Allen understand that they might not be around to develop players with more upside or ones with potentially greater impact in the future if they don’t win now. So in a way, their job security alters their draft strategy… is that the right way? For them I guess the answer is yes but for the Raiders organization and fan base I’d say no. This is the reason some bad teams stay bad and some good teams stay good.

Now let’s take a look at the Saints for a second…

Job security is not a problem for Mickey Loomis and Sean Payton. Loomis could draft a kicker in the 1st round this year and while many of us would be outraged we’d also be hesitant to judge and why… because “In Mickey we trust”. This front office, scouting dept & coaching staff that Tom Benson has assembled have earned our trust and loyalty and deserve the benefit of the doubt on all matters pertaining to the Saints. Loomis and Payton know this, they understand the love and support that this regime has from its fan base and so does Benson. With that kind of support comes the confidence to make bold decisions that fans may sometimes disagree with or simply don’t understand but the end game is always “those guys know what they’re doing”. Loomis and Payton also know that this kind of support only comes from wining and once the wining stops, the support will slowly welter. So while the current job security of both these beloved Saints figures are at an all-time high, they understand more than anyone just how fast that could change in the NFL.

For as good as Mickey Loomis is as a GM and Sean Payton as a HC, Having a quarterback like Drew Brees can masks a lot of deficiencies on both their parts. Sure Loomis has hit on some late round steals in the draft and is a wizard when it comes to contracts, but he’s also had his fair share of misses in both departments as well but winning has covered up for that. As great a play caller as Sean Payton has been for the Saints, his best years have always been behind a steller defensive coordinator and the steady play of Drew Brees.

Now let’s be clear on something…

This is a three way marriage here in New Orleans! Each one of these Saints figures could be successful without the other two but the joining of the three have made them an elite group and is the driving force of the Saints success since there merger. Each one of these guys understand what they mean to the other and each one knows where they would stand without the other two. The caveat here is that the increasing age of Loomis and Payton matters very little in the grand scheme of things but the idea of their aging quarterback is cause for concern for two of this three headed monster.

Remember, at some point all NFL front office’s become concerned with job security and just like McKenzie with the Raiders, Loomis understands that he’s simply a big hit or early retirement away from having that love and support he covets so much, begin to fade away.

Looking at this draft, the idea beginning to take shape is the fact that many quarterback needy teams are likely to bypass some of the top signal callers when there on the board. The reasoning… The player just simply isn’t worth the value of a high draft pick which is where these teams are selecting. In many other drafts a franchise could sell the potential of a young less deserving quarterback to their fan base and make the selection anyway but this draft is different. The depth of this draft will force GM’s to ignore positional needs and simply take the top players available to them but this doesn’t mean that those quarterbacks aren’t deserving of a 1st round pick, just simply not a top 10 selection in such a stacked class.

Have you ever heard the old saying… “The best time to look for a job is when you already have one”?

Well the best time to draft a young quarterback to develop is when you already have a great one on the roster. The fact is that the best time for Loomis and Payton to invest in a successor for Drew Brees is now while they have the full support of the fan base and easily another 3 seasons of solid play from their future Hall of Famer. In a class where many of the top quarterbacks look likely to be drafted where they should be (middle to late 1st) instead of having teams reach for them and trusting them into unfair situations that they clearly aren’t ready for. It’s no wonder that reports are out that the Saints have been doing their homework on some of this drafts top young gun slingers.

Sure, a new young corner, pass rusher or wide receiver would be a great addition to this roster but remember two things…

1. This is a very deep class and those positions can be addressed later with quality prospects.

2. The backup quarterback is the least important position, until the starter goes down!

Now, am I suggesting that the Saints simply reach for a young quarterback to groom at all cost? Absolutely not but I do realize that the position is like any other and needs to be addressed eventually and if an opportunity presents its self that our front office believes could secure the position for many years beyond Drew Brees, then they would be fools to bypass the chance to do so and then and only then would they finally be approaching the draft on the wrong side of that fine line.




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Raves


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless the QB is of such a caliber that the thought that they dropped was mind boggling but was expected due to a lack of teams needing a QB, ala Rodgers previously, then I doubt the QB available at #27 should be taken.

For one there are several teams that are in dire need of a QB and if even a late 1st/early 2nd round grade QB makes it to the #27 pick I'll be shocked, yes I expect at least 4 QBs in the top 20 picks, and also our team is in a position to play for a Super Bowl over the next 3 years still. If we want to take our best swing at getting another Title in town they need to address the big issue of WR productivity honestly.

Even if we drafted a QB highly this year by the time Brees retires that player will be ready to sign a new contract, which could be disastrous as we would be overpaying for an unproven guy we hope can take over the reigns. Our back-ups have looked fine for years when they needed to come in, thankfully we haven't needed them too. Now if Brees gets hurt early and our back-up can't handle the job, then we get a high pick and might use it on a QB then since drafting a replacement QB high is just smart business, now if he the back-up does well we don't need to draft a QB, if he gets too late into the season for us to end up with a high pick then well that's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes. Also next year, which is where I think we need to start looking at finding Brees replacement as we would be in a shorter window of us moving on from Brees or him retiring, there will be some good QBs as well that we can choose from while still having what should be a rather good team on both sides with few holes.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Unless the QB is of such a caliber that the thought that they dropped was mind boggling but was expected due to a lack of teams needing a QB, ala Rodgers previously, then I doubt the QB available at #27 should be taken.

For one there are several teams that are in dire need of a QB and if even a late 1st/early 2nd round grade QB makes it to the #27 pick I'll be shocked, yes I expect at least 4 QBs in the top 20 picks, and also our team is in a position to play for a Super Bowl over the next 3 years still. If we want to take our best swing at getting another Title in town they need to address the big issue of WR productivity honestly.

Even if we drafted a QB highly this year by the time Brees retires that player will be ready to sign a new contract, which could be disastrous as we would be overpaying for an unproven guy we hope can take over the reigns. Our back-ups have looked fine for years when they needed to come in, thankfully we haven't needed them too. Now if Brees gets hurt early and our back-up can't handle the job, then we get a high pick and might use it on a QB then since drafting a replacement QB high is just smart business, now if he the back-up does well we don't need to draft a QB, if he gets too late into the season for us to end up with a high pick then well that's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes. Also next year, which is where I think we need to start looking at finding Brees replacement as we would be in a shorter window of us moving on from Brees or him retiring, there will be some good QBs as well that we can choose from while still having what should be a rather good team on both sides with few holes.


Im not saying choose one just to choose one but for arguments sake let's say that Sean Payton feels that a quarterback in this draft (insert whichever name) is a player he wants to build around eventually and groom to be his next starting quarterback... should the fact that next years class being closer to Brees perceived retirement date really be of importance when projecting the future at the position?

At what point will many of us come to the realization that there is a high possibility that Drew Brees suits up for another franchise eventually?

I'm sure at some point Colts, 49ers and Packers fans all felt they'd never see Manning, Montana or Favre play in another uniform but this is the way of the NFL these days.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with the thought of us moving on from Brees, even trading him to a team if the right offer came along, but you have to look at what your team is, what your goals should be, and how you should best go about achieving those goals.

-What are the Saints?
They are a Super Bowl contender with a surprisingly stout defense needing depth at CB and LBer and an offense that has been plagued by inconsistent WR play in a pass heavy offense with a 2-3 year window to really make a run at a titltle.

-What should the Saints goals be?
To contend for the Lombardi Trophy and bring it home.

-How best should the Saints go about achieving their goal?
They need to address their problems at WRs either through the draft or in FA as well as looking to guarantee the health of current players. They should also look to add further depth and potential starters at CB and ILB/OLB.

If Payton finds a QB that he feels so strongly about that he can build a team around, he will probably need to trade up for him. The best WR that might fall towards our pick is Teddy Bridgewater due to his horrendous pro day and then I would be ok with the pick. But anyone not named Bortles or Bridgewater I'm not sure I would want in the 1st. Now a trade up to the early 2nd I wouldn't be upset with, but still prefer the two WRs. I think our defense is actually pretty set for this upcoming season without needing any further additions.
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NS922


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still too early for that. We need to do what we have to do to make this team better. The current 2014 Saints. We don't need to worry about the future teams just yet. I understand there will be a time for that, I just don't believe it's now.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No...

This team is on the cusp of becoming a Super Bowl team again. Drafting a quarterback does nothing to improve our chances of winning another ring.

Will things be rough when Drew retires? YES! Doesn't matter if we win another championship though; it'll be totally worth it.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

QB Connoisseur wrote:
No...

This team is on the cusp of becoming a Super Bowl team again. Drafting a quarterback does nothing to improve our chances of winning another ring.

Will things be rough when Drew retires? YES! Doesn't matter if we win another championship though; it'll be totally worth it.


and if we don't...
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Harper41


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
QB Connoisseur wrote:
No...

This team is on the cusp of becoming a Super Bowl team again. Drafting a quarterback does nothing to improve our chances of winning another ring.

Will things be rough when Drew retires? YES! Doesn't matter if we win another championship though; it'll be totally worth it.


and if we don't...

Nothing wrong with planning for the future. If Payton and Loomis feel that a QB at 27 is BPA, I won't complain. It'd be awesome to have Brees retire and have a top tier QB step right in.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
whodatworm23 wrote:
QB Connoisseur wrote:
No...

This team is on the cusp of becoming a Super Bowl team again. Drafting a quarterback does nothing to improve our chances of winning another ring.

Will things be rough when Drew retires? YES! Doesn't matter if we win another championship though; it'll be totally worth it.


and if we don't...

Nothing wrong with planning for the future. If Payton and Loomis feel that a QB at 27 is BPA, I won't complain. It'd be awesome to have Brees retire and have a top tier QB step right in.


Agreed... I'm not advocating for the Saints to select a QB at 27, just pointing out that it's a possibility and not a bad idea either if they feel strongly about a player. I remember an article a while back where Brees talked about how complex Payton's offense was to fully grasp and that it wasn't till mid way through his 3rd season in New Orleans that he finally had mastered the system and was on the same page play in and play out with Coach Payton.

THis was a veteran NFL QB (Coming from San Diego) and one of the hardest workers at the position we've seen and it took him almost 3 seasons to master this system. To think simply drafting a rookie and throwing him in their once Brees hangs'em up to me is insane and highly unlikely the way Payton will go about that transition. THe most likely scenario is that a player is drafted, developed and groomed for 2-4 years and then hits the ground running when he gets his opportunity.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What should the Saints do? They SHOULD draft a QB to the replacement to Drew Brees within the next 2-3 years. I think that Brees is slipping. His long ball has NOT been the same since he signed his contract. He is still a brilliant QB and will be productive, but I don't think that he will be an elite QB when his contract is up.

The Saints will likely be drafting on the backend of the 1st round for the next few seasons...so it will significantly decrease the chance of the Saints coming across a bonafide franchise QB in the draft. So if the Saints do get an opportunity to get that guy...they can't pass him up. Because there is no guarantee that you will see a franchise-like QB in later drafts, especially drafting outside of the top 15. So if Sean Payton believes that Carr or Garoppolo has the potential to be that special QB...you have to get him.

But I don't think that the Saints will do what they SHOULD do. They will likely extend Drew Brees next season to lessen the cap burden. Drew Brees will be the Saints starting QB too long, and the Saints will miss out on an opportunity to continue greatness. Why am I saying this? I think that Loomis will cave on Brees, just as he did two years ago. They are in win now mode...and they are willing to jeopardize the long-term potential to win over the next 3-4 years.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unfsaint wrote:
What should the Saints do? They SHOULD draft a QB to the replacement to Drew Brees within the next 2-3 years. I think that Brees is slipping. His long ball has NOT been the same since he signed his contract. He is still a brilliant QB and will be productive, but I don't think that he will be an elite QB when his contract is up.

The Saints will likely be drafting on the backend of the 1st round for the next few seasons...so it will significantly decrease the chance of the Saints coming across a bonafide franchise QB in the draft. So if the Saints do get an opportunity to get that guy...they can't pass him up. Because there is no guarantee that you will see a franchise-like QB in later drafts, especially drafting outside of the top 15. So if Sean Payton believes that Carr or Garoppolo has the potential to be that special QB...you have to get him.

But I don't think that the Saints will do what they SHOULD do. They will likely extend Drew Brees next season to lessen the cap burden. Drew Brees will be the Saints starting QB too long, and the Saints will miss out on an opportunity to continue greatness. Why am I saying this? I think that Loomis will cave on Brees, just as he did two years ago. They are in win now mode...and they are willing to jeopardize the long-term potential to win over the next 3-4 years.


I agree with most of what you said... I mentioned a QB at pick 27 to grab the attention of the situation and it's importance but I also believe that, that QB can be found even later. Rumors are recently that the Saints have been really intrigued with Georgia QB Aaron Murray, like Brees coming out of Purdue Murray was a highly productive college QB and while his size will mostly be compared to Brees, it's his work ethic, dedication, character and leadership qualities that are likely drawing the Saints intrest.

So, let's say the Saints decide that Murray is their guy... would it be a stretch to take him at 59? What if it's Garoppolo and he falls to that pick? The point is that the position needs to be addressed and SHOULD be this year IF that guys available. Picks are only reaches if they don't work out.

A lot of fans come on here and claim that "this is a win now team" and "our objective should be to win a Superbowl". OK, I get that but let me ask you guys this... If Drew Brees goes down, is this still a win now contending team? Injuries are a part of the game and having a great young quarterback prospect developing behind your aging starter offers a franchise much more than a future replacement, it offers your team, your franchise and your fan base the best possible insurance clause you can ask for!
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if the Saints draft to try and shore up their inconsistent WR play by going WR in the 1st two rounds, then when Brees retires, or god forbid goes down to injury, the person coming in for him will have a lot of good targets to throw to, a good OL to protect him, and hopefully an improved running game to lean on until they get fully comfortable in the system.

Now there are QBs in every draft that have the potential to be just plain studs. I mean Brady was a 6th rounder, Brees a 2nd rounder, Wilson a 3rd rounder, Kaepernick was taken in the 2nd round, pretty sure both Brunell and Delhomme weren't 1st round picks, Jeff Garcia wasn't a 1st rounder, can't remember if Kurt Warner was or not, but this is a list of guys that have been productive and always had some knock on them but due to character and work ethic and enough of an NFL skillset they had several years of success. So get some more weapons and look to roll the dice on a QB next year. This year fix the weapons so when a new QB does come in they have something to work with.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
Well if the Saints draft to try and shore up their inconsistent WR play by going WR in the 1st two rounds, then when Brees retires, or god forbid goes down to injury, the person coming in for him will have a lot of good targets to throw to, a good OL to protect him, and hopefully an improved running game to lean on until they get fully comfortable in the system.

Now there are QBs in every draft that have the potential to be just plain studs. I mean Brady was a 6th rounder, Brees a 2nd rounder, Wilson a 3rd rounder, Kaepernick was taken in the 2nd round, pretty sure both Brunell and Delhomme weren't 1st round picks, Jeff Garcia wasn't a 1st rounder, can't remember if Kurt Warner was or not, but this is a list of guys that have been productive and always had some knock on them but due to character and work ethic and enough of an NFL skillset they had several years of success. So get some more weapons and look to roll the dice on a QB next year. This year fix the weapons so when a new QB does come in they have something to work with.


I think your seriously selling short the offensive fire power on this club... Could this team use a young stud at the receiver position? Of course, but your talking like this team is decimate of playmakers.

Graham is the best "hybrid" in the game and the new standard that all future tight ends will be compared too. Kenny Stills was one of the BEST rookies in the NFL last season and posted a +20 yards per reception average. Mark Ingram and Khiry Robinson showed the second half of last season that they are a formidable one two punch coming out of the backfield. This team does possess great young talent, yes they could benefit from another all purpose weapon but this draft's deepest position is arguably the receiver position.

I just don't think were as far away as you make it seem...
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah WRs really aren't that hard to find now a days it seems. Is it hard to find a Calvin, Julio or AJ Green? Yes. Good, but not great WRs, are a dime a dozen though. Especially with a guy like Payton calling plays.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Yeah WRs really aren't that hard to find now a days it seems. Is it hard to find a Calvin, Julio or AJ Green? Yes. Good, but not great WRs, are a dime a dozen though. Especially with a guy like Payton calling plays.


True and this draft is littered with guys through the 2nd-4th rounds that Payton and Drew can make look like 1st rounders.
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