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penquin11


Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Posts: 44
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Impulser12000 wrote:
Benjamin is the wild card. bc IMO hixon, lafell, ginn = avant, cotchery, underwood. smitty vs. Benjamin stats wise this year is what it's gunna be


Hixon is worse than Avant or Cotchery- by a mile. He had 55 yards receiving for us... Advantage New Core.

Lafell is worse than Cotchery, and about at the same level as Avant. Advantage new Core.

Ginn is coming off a stronger year than Underwood, but Tiquan only had marginally worse stats despite playing with a worser team and only playing in 12 games. If he had maintained his pace in receiving for the entire season he theoretically would have finished with 587 yards, 5TD, and 25 First downs, which is slightly better than Ginn. Given Ginn's inconsistency, and the hypothetical stats, I'm going to give this one a draw.

Smitty vs Benjamin is the real toss up, they are both very different players. However, both Smitty and Benjamin feast off of YAC and Pass Avg's, and in that regard I will give the advantage to Benjamin. Smith for a long time was elite after the catch, but last year father time caught up, and smith just wasn't a home run threat. One possible reason is because Smith, with his size, has had to rely on his speed to gash defenses, meanwhile the 6'6 250 Benjamin simply runs through shorter defensive backs (while also being VERY physical at the line of scrimiage- something that should draw Pass interference calls in our favor in the pros).... That stated, it would be a crime to say that Benjamin, without having played a game for us, is a better option than the best panther to have ever played.
Advantage Old Core...
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Zithers


Joined: 15 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cpanthers178990 wrote:
tigerwolf213 wrote:
Also I have big hopes for Brandon Williams @ 6'4" 250 he is actually faster than KB. He ran a 4.5 40



No doubt, I'm waiting for them to unleash him this year. I thought he was going to spring late last season but I'll wait. This season I expect Dickson to be our Hartstock, Olsen to be Shockey, and Williams to be Olsen. 2011 all over again. Personally I believe we are very deep at TE.


brandon williams did zilch last year except for drop a pass iirc. why would dickson be the hartsock? he's more of a receiver than a blocker. brandon williams is almost guaranteed to be cut or thrown on the PS behind olsen, dickson, and mcneill.
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cpanthers178990


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zithers wrote:
cpanthers178990 wrote:
tigerwolf213 wrote:
Also I have big hopes for Brandon Williams @ 6'4" 250 he is actually faster than KB. He ran a 4.5 40



No doubt, I'm waiting for them to unleash him this year. I thought he was going to spring late last season but I'll wait. This season I expect Dickson to be our Hartstock, Olsen to be Shockey, and Williams to be Olsen. 2011 all over again. Personally I believe we are very deep at TE.


brandon williams did zilch last year except for drop a pass iirc. why would dickson be the hartsock? he's more of a receiver than a blocker. brandon williams is almost guaranteed to be cut or thrown on the PS behind olsen, dickson, and mcneill.



Brandon Williams is a converted basketball type and was a rookie last year. Been through allot and seems to be working hard, I'm pretty sure we are high on this kid internally. Don't sleep on him. Dickson, while a change of scenery might do him some good and bring him back to form, is still a better blocker at this point then receiver. Which I don't think is a bad thing because he is quite a decent blocker as a TE in my opinion. Not actually as good as Hartstock but Dickson can be better. Olsen is gonna Olsen. The next two TEs on our depth chart are big bodies who have potential. Could all be good targets for Cam.
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HighPointNCKid


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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Location: Hampton, VA
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We got Cam 1 weapon and very few like him, but they like all the other picks? Its bizarro world! I guess I expected too much! I wanted the OT, the playmaker WR and a big FAST CB. We traded up for this kid but maybe he will be good, IDK? Drafting Ealy for his grade I get but maybe trade down and get an extra pick and address a need position. He did the draft via skype? Who the *&%^ does that? Thats ridiculous! I cant be the only one who thought that was bush league? Gaffney and Boston were extremely puzzling with all of the safeties and RBs we have?? Just a really weird and disappointing draft for me. I thought we were gonna draft somebody that would make me go YES!!! After round 1 there were no yes moments! Just looks of bewilderment and rage! We will take a step back next year! Im saying it right now, not because of the draft for us but, by our division rivals and the teams on our schedule go SO much better while I feel we stayed the same really. I could be wrong but I see 6-10 or 8-8 at best! Not being negative, I think thats realistic!
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Zithers


Joined: 15 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he went to his son's graduation. i think he gets a pass on the skype thing.
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TROJANPANTHER


Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2014 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zithers wrote:
he went to his son's graduation. i think he gets a pass on the skype thing.


Yeah it's not like he used the pony express.
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atown703


Joined: 22 Feb 2008
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Location: Alexandria, Virginia
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand where you're coming from HighPointKid, I felt the same way while watching the draft. Ealy was a great value pick and could be Hardy's successor if Hardy chooses not to sign long term after being franchise tagged. Turner will be a day 1 starter at right guard so that goes without saying.

The 4th round is where I yelled out "WHAT!?!" I couldn't believe we drafted a safety either. Although, I do believe Boston is a natural leader and has good character. I like him from what I've seen from game tapes. Godfrey is coming off an achilles injury, Harper only has a year or two left and the tank and DeCoud has had tackling issues his entire career. I hope our 3 veterans can give some guidance to pushing Boston and Lester into starting positions further down their career.

The 5th round, I was telling myself, "We gotta go OT or another WR" but instead we go for another defensive back. We draft Benwikere and I think this was a bit of a head scratcher. He's not the most athletic but he does play smart and has good ball awareness. Our last pick gets a bit better but not much when we already have 4 RBs on our roster. Some forget Tim McNiel, who we signed this offseason, he played some fullback while in St. Louis.

In the 6th we draft Gaffney, my least favorite pick because I feel like we aren't following with the times of the new NFL. This is a passing league but we continue to push our ground and pound style. Gaffney is a physical runner and great pass blocker. I'm interested to see him on the field. Could the staff be preparing for Double Trouble 2.0? Barner being the lightning and Gaffney bring the thunder. Not sure but I still would think this pick should have been a OT or WR.

Gettleman said he was not going to reach to fill any of those needs if he didn't like the players available or if there was a better player available. I guess he's planning for the future but I still don't understand how much the last 3 players are going to contribute to the team except for ST. You can say, players drafted in late rounds are meant for development and not expecting to start. However, I think we should have double dipped on OT and WR this draft.
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HighPointNCKid


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 2195
Location: Hampton, VA
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

atown703 wrote:
I understand where you're coming from HighPointKid, I felt the same way while watching the draft. Ealy was a great value pick and could be Hardy's successor if Hardy chooses not to sign long term after being franchise tagged. Turner will be a day 1 starter at right guard so that goes without saying.

The 4th round is where I yelled out "WHAT!?!" I couldn't believe we drafted a safety either. Although, I do believe Boston is a natural leader and has good character. I like him from what I've seen from game tapes. Godfrey is coming off an achilles injury, Harper only has a year or two left and the tank and DeCoud has had tackling issues his entire career. I hope our 3 veterans can give some guidance to pushing Boston and Lester into starting positions further down their career.

The 5th round, I was telling myself, "We gotta go OT or another WR" but instead we go for another defensive back. We draft Benwikere and I think this was a bit of a head scratcher. He's not the most athletic but he does play smart and has good ball awareness. Our last pick gets a bit better but not much when we already have 4 RBs on our roster. Some forget Tim McNiel, who we signed this offseason, he played some fullback while in St. Louis.

In the 6th we draft Gaffney, my least favorite pick because I feel like we aren't following with the times of the new NFL. This is a passing league but we continue to push our ground and pound style. Gaffney is a physical runner and great pass blocker. I'm interested to see him on the field. Could the staff be preparing for Double Trouble 2.0? Barner being the lightning and Gaffney bring the thunder. Not sure but I still would think this pick should have been a OT or WR.

Gettleman said he was not going to reach to fill any of those needs if he didn't like the players available or if there was a better player available. I guess he's planning for the future but I still don't understand how much the last 3 players are going to contribute to the team except for ST. You can say, players drafted in late rounds are meant for development and not expecting to start. However, I think we should have double dipped on OT and WR this draft.


I dont hate the WR or RG pick but hte rest I was like huh?
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johnydtarheel


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 4207
Location: Charlotte NC
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HighPointNCKid wrote:
We got Cam 1 weapon and very few like him, but they like all the other picks? Its bizarro world! I guess I expected too much! I wanted the OT, the playmaker WR and a big FAST CB. We traded up for this kid but maybe he will be good, IDK? Drafting Ealy for his grade I get but maybe trade down and get an extra pick and address a need position. He did the draft via skype? Who the *&%^ does that? Thats ridiculous! I cant be the only one who thought that was bush league? Gaffney and Boston were extremely puzzling with all of the safeties and RBs we have?? Just a really weird and disappointing draft for me. I thought we were gonna draft somebody that would make me go YES!!! After round 1 there were no yes moments! Just looks of bewilderment and rage! We will take a step back next year! Im saying it right now, not because of the draft for us but, by our division rivals and the teams on our schedule go SO much better while I feel we stayed the same really. I could be wrong but I see 6-10 or 8-8 at best! Not being negative, I think thats realistic!

Dude really hating on a dad for going to his sons college graduation which he promised him he would be there? You must not be a dad!
You can't draft just for position or you get burned!
Next year when CJ or Hardy or gone you would be begging for a DE in 1st round. We got him this year.
4th round picks and on I have no clue on and neither does anyone on this board. You try to find ST players that fit your system.
Man this is why I didn't come here all weekend.
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boondock


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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TROJANPANTHER wrote:
Zithers wrote:
he went to his son's graduation. i think he gets a pass on the skype thing.


Yeah it's not like he used the pony express.


Not to mention, they probably had their big board set out and did not veer much from it.

Would be curious to see how the trade played out over Skype.
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Zithers


Joined: 15 Aug 2010
Posts: 2349
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jerry jones said in a presser that kony ealy and trai turner would have been their 2nd and 3rd round picks if they hadnt traded up for demarcus lawrence


not sure if this is a good or bad thing...
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J Pep 4 Step


Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 30084
Location: Greenvillain, NC
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

atown703 wrote:
I understand where you're coming from HighPointKid, I felt the same way while watching the draft. Ealy was a great value pick and could be Hardy's successor if Hardy chooses not to sign long term after being franchise tagged. Turner will be a day 1 starter at right guard so that goes without saying.

The 4th round is where I yelled out "WHAT!?!" I couldn't believe we drafted a safety either. Although, I do believe Boston is a natural leader and has good character. I like him from what I've seen from game tapes. Godfrey is coming off an achilles injury, Harper only has a year or two left and the tank and DeCoud has had tackling issues his entire career. I hope our 3 veterans can give some guidance to pushing Boston and Lester into starting positions further down their career.

The 5th round, I was telling myself, "We gotta go OT or another WR" but instead we go for another defensive back. We draft Benwikere and I think this was a bit of a head scratcher. He's not the most athletic but he does play smart and has good ball awareness. Our last pick gets a bit better but not much when we already have 4 RBs on our roster. Some forget Tim McNiel, who we signed this offseason, he played some fullback while in St. Louis.

In the 6th we draft Gaffney, my least favorite pick because I feel like we aren't following with the times of the new NFL. This is a passing league but we continue to push our ground and pound style. Gaffney is a physical runner and great pass blocker. I'm interested to see him on the field. Could the staff be preparing for Double Trouble 2.0? Barner being the lightning and Gaffney bring the thunder. Not sure but I still would think this pick should have been a OT or WR.

Gettleman said he was not going to reach to fill any of those needs if he didn't like the players available or if there was a better player available. I guess he's planning for the future but I still don't understand how much the last 3 players are going to contribute to the team except for ST. You can say, players drafted in late rounds are meant for development and not expecting to start. However, I think we should have double dipped on OT and WR this draft.


See, here's my thing. I was underwhelmed by the last 3 picks as well. But you cant be looking at it like "why didnt we go OT?" What difference would it have made? In the 4th round you arent going to be picking up any OT youre going to want starting day 1. You are picking up a bad OT or a project. Once your eout of round 2, you can hang up getting a quality day 1 starter at OT. And the WRs in the 4th through 6th? Meh. I can see your point to a degree. But its the 4th, 5th and 6th rounds. You dont typically find a ton of quality WRs in those rounds. So I dont know. Take it for what its worth I guess. I look at all picks past the 3rd as back ups, rotational players and projects.
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iknowcool


Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't take a specific position just because. You take a player because you feel he can contribute to your team. Lets use the 6th round for example, the round where we drafted Tyler Gaffney, a running back. Here are the list of wide receivers drafted in the 6th round since 2011:

Ryan Whalen
Dwayne Harris
Aldrick Robinson
Ronald Johnson
B.J. Cunningham
Marvin McNutt
Tommy Streeter
LaVon Brazill
Corey Fuller
Ryan Swope
Justin Brown
Alan Bonner
Cobi Hamilton

Not a single one of those guys has done anything of note at wide receiver. People get caught up in draft time that we begin to overlook one key fact; there is a greater percentage of players in the draft that end up not making much of an impact than there are guys who do. Wide receiver is a position that I think this happens the most at. I could go through every round (4-7) and similar results will come. Sure, you get your break-out star here and there, but otherwise it is extremely rare. Why draft a #5 wide receiver in the 6th round when you can get a productive #2 HB who consistently helps your team on the field? I am not saying Gaffney will do that but you get the jist of what I am saying.

I hate the idea that Carolina should go against their draft board and take an offensive tackle or wide receiver just because it is a need. I remember I said something that a lot of people disagreed with pre-draft but you don't pass on Aaron Donald if you feel he can become an elite defensive tackle just to take a wide receiver who, deep down inside, you don't think can become much more than a #3 or #2, especially in the first round.

Beyond that, I don't think the offensive tackle class is as good as people are making it out to be. Well, let me correct myself on that. While it was great, it was great because you had 2 elite offensive tackle prospects and 1 other really good one, all who were rightfully so drafted in the top 15. After that, there is a huge dropoff. Even if you thought highly of Cyrus Kouandjio, he wasn't there for us in the second round and wasn't good enough for our first round selection. Now maybe you think we should have taken Moses or Turner over Ealy in the 2nd round but if not, a 4th/5th/6th/7th round offensive tackle is likely not going to help us and we shouldn't draft such a player if we feel he won't in the end. And the track record for late round left tackles is not good I would imagine - it is a position that is so valued because finding a good one is hard to find.

I can understand why some didn't like the draft and not saying they should, although they should let it play out in the end. But I really disagree with the idea that we HAD to draft wide receivers and offensive tackles. If we think they won't contribute, we shouldn't draft them. And of all positions, I don't think late round WRs and OTs have the best history.
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boondock


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can get a guy in the 6th round and he makes the team, contributes on ST, and does decently in spot duty; I call that success.
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ericr0319


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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont hate the Kony pick and it may pay off if we lose a DE next year. but with Moses there who most had us mocking in the 1st, i would have loved our draft if we had taken him. then we really would have "hog mollies". i could get excited about that oline. I just dont see where Kony will play that much other than DE. we are loaded at DT in a 3 man rotation, where edwards can rush the passer fine. I get BPA, just odd when I think there are guys who were just as good that fill a need.
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