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Geronimo


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gruden must know him quite well. Time will tell.
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hornbybrown


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew he would get a chance somewhere as he does show flashes. I'm just stunned by the amount he got!
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Brian23


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornbybrown wrote:
I knew he would get a chance somewhere as he does show flashes. I'm just stunned by the amount he got!


BA has shown good ability with contracts. I don't think those are the real numbers at all.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
hornbybrown wrote:
I knew he would get a chance somewhere as he does show flashes. I'm just stunned by the amount he got!


BA has shown good ability with contracts. I don't think those are the real numbers at all.


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/shawn-lauvao/
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5890/shawn-lauvao

Signing bonus = $4M ($1M per year pro-rated)

2014
Arrow Age (as of 9/1) = 26
Arrow Salary = $2M ($1M guaranteed)
Arrow Cap Value = $3M

2015
Arrow Age (as of 9/1) = 27
Arrow Salary = $3M
Arrow Cap Value = $4M
Arrow Cut Value = $0 cap savings (yes, zero) / $2M in cap savings with $2M in dead cap going forward if June cut

2016
Arrow Age (as of 9/1) = 28
Arrow Salary = $4M
Arrow Cap Value = $5M
Arrow Cut Value = $2M cap savings / $3M in cap savings with $1m in dead cap going forward if June cut

2017
Arrow Age (as of 9/1) = 29
Arrow Salary = $4M
Arrow Cap Value = $5M
Arrow Cut Value = $3M cap savings


So, if we wanted to, we could bail on this guy next year. It wouldn't be all that useful since we wouldn't save any money, but it would be neutral. All in all, this looks more like a 2y/$7M/$5M with some dead cap in 2016 (possibly 2017) unless he plays well. Then, it's an under-market deal.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 66159
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
hornbybrown wrote:
I knew he would get a chance somewhere as he does show flashes. I'm just stunned by the amount he got!


BA has shown good ability with contracts. I don't think those are the real numbers at all.


http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/shawn-lauvao/
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5890/shawn-lauvao

Signing bonus = $4M ($1M per year pro-rated)

2014
Arrow Age (as of 9/1) = 26
Arrow Salary = $2M ($1M guaranteed)
Arrow Cap Value = $3M

2015
Arrow Age (as of 9/1) = 27
Arrow Salary = $3M
Arrow Cap Value = $4M
Arrow Cut Value = $0 cap savings (yes, zero) / $2M in cap savings with $2M in dead cap going forward if June cut

2016
Arrow Age (as of 9/1) = 28
Arrow Salary = $4M
Arrow Cap Value = $5M
Arrow Cut Value = $2M cap savings / $3M in cap savings with $1m in dead cap going forward if June cut

2017
Arrow Age (as of 9/1) = 29
Arrow Salary = $4M
Arrow Cap Value = $5M
Arrow Cut Value = $3M cap savings


So, if we wanted to, we could bail on this guy next year. It wouldn't be all that useful since we wouldn't save any money, but it would be neutral. All in all, this looks more like a 2y/$7M/$5M with some dead cap in 2016 (possibly 2017) unless he plays well. Then, it's an under-market deal.
Awesome! Thanks Woz. I knew the deal had to be better than it looked on the surface for us. BA just doesn't give away bad contracts
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Woz


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Awesome! Thanks Woz. I knew the deal had to be better than it looked on the surface for us. BA just doesn't give away bad contracts


Well ... financially speaking, it's not a bad contract. Talent wise? I guess we'll have to see if it was worth what he will be getting.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Awesome! Thanks Woz. I knew the deal had to be better than it looked on the surface for us. BA just doesn't give away bad contracts


Well ... financially speaking, it's not a bad contract. Talent wise? I guess we'll have to see if it was worth what he will be getting.


Not at all. I thought the numbers reported were about $10 million more!
And we keep doing these ez-out deals. I love it
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big44dog


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Awesome! Thanks Woz. I knew the deal had to be better than it looked on the surface for us. BA just doesn't give away bad contracts


Well ... financially speaking, it's not a bad contract. Talent wise? I guess we'll have to see if it was worth what he will be getting.


Not at all. I thought the numbers reported were about $10 million more!
And we keep doing these ez-out deals. I love it


Can we stop calling Bruce a golf playing yes man now? Maybe scouting isn't his thing but he's proven he can work his way around a salary cap. Or at least his hired guns with calculators can.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big44dog wrote:
Can we stop calling Bruce a golf playing yes man now? Maybe scouting isn't his thing but he's proven he can work his way around a salary cap. Or at least his hired guns with calculators can.


There wasn't any question that Allen knew how to make the cap dance for him. The big problem during his tenure in Tampa was talent acquisition.
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DCRED


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big44dog wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Awesome! Thanks Woz. I knew the deal had to be better than it looked on the surface for us. BA just doesn't give away bad contracts


Well ... financially speaking, it's not a bad contract. Talent wise? I guess we'll have to see if it was worth what he will be getting.


Not at all. I thought the numbers reported were about $10 million more!
And we keep doing these ez-out deals. I love it


Can we stop calling Bruce a golf playing yes man now? Maybe scouting isn't his thing but he's proven he can work his way around a salary cap. Or at least his hired guns with calculators can.


Side Note:
You allude to him having a staff working his magic. I have no problem with him making numbers crunch by having a competent group working for him. It's also why I don't mind when they mine for former associates from Tampa etc.
Sometimes a chemistry can be formed just by knowing what you are going to get out of someone and only giving them the responsibilities that allow them to exploit their strengths, and eliminating others. It is a familiarity with someone that is grown by association.
So when they look first to reunite bonds of former associates and grow people from within before adding more "BigHeads" like Shanahan or AJ Smith I am all for it

sorry for the rant Laughing
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Woz


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DCRED wrote:
big44dog wrote:
DCRED wrote:
Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Awesome! Thanks Woz. I knew the deal had to be better than it looked on the surface for us. BA just doesn't give away bad contracts


Well ... financially speaking, it's not a bad contract. Talent wise? I guess we'll have to see if it was worth what he will be getting.


Not at all. I thought the numbers reported were about $10 million more!
And we keep doing these ez-out deals. I love it


Can we stop calling Bruce a golf playing yes man now? Maybe scouting isn't his thing but he's proven he can work his way around a salary cap. Or at least his hired guns with calculators can.


Side Note:
You allude to him having a staff working his magic. I have no problem with him making numbers crunch by having a competent group working for him. It's also why I don't mind when they mine for former associates from Tampa etc.
Sometimes a chemistry can be formed just by knowing what you are going to get out of someone and only giving them the responsibilities that allow them to exploit their strengths, and eliminating others. It is a familiarity with someone that is grown by association.
So when they look first to reunite bonds of former associates and grow people from within before adding more "BigHeads" like Shanahan or AJ Smith I am all for it

sorry for the rant Laughing


Except when almost every hire or retainer they had was a former associate of one form or another, it looks less like reuniting bonds and more like quid pro quo for past favors.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 66159
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
big44dog wrote:
Can we stop calling Bruce a golf playing yes man now? Maybe scouting isn't his thing but he's proven he can work his way around a salary cap. Or at least his hired guns with calculators can.


There wasn't any question that Allen knew how to make the cap dance for him. The big problem during his tenure in Tampa was talent acquisition.
Which a lot of it had to do with the cap problems he inherited when trying to keep a Super Bowl winning team in tact and a trade from his predecessor which left him w/o 4 high draft picks.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
big44dog wrote:
Can we stop calling Bruce a golf playing yes man now? Maybe scouting isn't his thing but he's proven he can work his way around a salary cap. Or at least his hired guns with calculators can.


There wasn't any question that Allen knew how to make the cap dance for him. The big problem during his tenure in Tampa was talent acquisition.
Which a lot of it had to do with the cap problems he inherited when trying to keep a Super Bowl winning team in tact and a trade from his predecessor which left him w/o 4 high draft picks.


Uhh, the 4 high draft picks were dealt with in 2002 and 2003, while Rich McKay was there. As for the talent, he released John Lynch and let Warren Sapp walk. That was a choice to get rid of talent.

You could run down his 2004-2008 drafts and take a look. They are not what you call inspiring.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Woz wrote:
big44dog wrote:
Can we stop calling Bruce a golf playing yes man now? Maybe scouting isn't his thing but he's proven he can work his way around a salary cap. Or at least his hired guns with calculators can.


There wasn't any question that Allen knew how to make the cap dance for him. The big problem during his tenure in Tampa was talent acquisition.
Which a lot of it had to do with the cap problems he inherited when trying to keep a Super Bowl winning team in tact and a trade from his predecessor which left him w/o 4 high draft picks.


Uhh, the 4 high draft picks were dealt with in 2002 and 2003, while Rich McKay was there. As for the talent, he released John Lynch and let Warren Sapp walk. That was a choice to get rid of talent.

You could run down his 2004-2008 drafts and take a look. They are not what you call inspiring.
well the trading of those draft picks also hurt Allen because he was missing high draft choices in 2004 as the team had missed them in 2002 & 2003. Hard to build a team when your missing those draft choices and you don't have a Qb.

They also paid the raiders to get Gruden, their team was a disappointing 7-9 in 2003. They were expensive and getting old, they didn't have the cap room and that is why they couldn't keep Lynch & Sapp.
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MikeT14


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more I keep reading about this guy, the more I hate it, hate it, hate it. It seems like it is doomed for failure. I don't get it, Bruce.
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