Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Would you be mad if we skipped over Bridgewater
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Jacksonville Jaguars
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Vino


Joined: 27 Oct 2013
Posts: 1838
Location: Jacksonville, FL
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
could be ≠ an expectation

Sooo we should draft him based on potential down the road instead of instant impact? I don't like doing that.

Quote:
Like the situations that Peyton Manning, Matt Ryan, Cam Newton, Andrew Luck, RGIII, and countless others were drafted into.

Not really. It's a stretch to say the rosters those players went into were anywhere near as bad as our current situation. We have one of the most depleted rosters in NFL history, it's historically bad. Lets not even get into whether or not Bridgewater is even the same caliber QB as those guys. He's also smaller than all of them and you have to worry about him being more susceptible to hits.

Quote:
Maybe if you weren't twisting what I said, it wouldn't seem that way...

You've called him the second best QB prospect of the past decade and constantly compare him to Aaron Rodgers and Peyton Manning. I don't really have to twist your words :/

Quote:
Good thing I've spent the entire year talking about his other skills too, then. I also didn't say that he would be an All Pro. I said that he would be top 10, and could likely (not will) be borderline All Pro.

Yes he's mechanically sound and accurate and doesn't get pocket gitters...and at the same time he has a less than ideal body frame, average arm strength, and questionable accuracy on the deep throw. And some will look at the competition he played as a problem. He will probably be good down the road, but most certainly not his first year. I can see him having a season similar to EJ Manuel, hopefully minus missing a lot of time due to injury. I don't think he will make as many mistakes as Geno, but he'll just sort of be a game manager and play within himself. Which isn't a problem, but when you have the chance to draft an immediate impact player at a position of need like Mack I don't think you pass that up on a lesser prospect in hopes that he will be a decent franchise QB in a year or two time, and putting him in a bad situation in the first place. I would feel more comfortable drafting Bridgewater at 6 with Clowney, Mack, and Watkins all being gone. I can't really justify drafting him over those players the more I think about it, especially Clowney and Mack.

Quote:
Well I'm glad I never argued that. More likely to hit his "low ceiling" than others are to hit their "high ceilings" ≠ other guys can't have similar or better actual results.

Okay, I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were trying to say that the other QBs are so less mentally tough that they couldn't equal what Bridgewater would be.

Quote:
They're not going to have to learn zone blocking. They will take guys who are already zone blockers. This staff isn't going to take guys who aren't capable of playing the scheme.

They still have to play with each other and learn each other's tendencies. It will be a growing process and mistakes will be made early on. Would not put a QB we just drafter in the top 3 behind that who has injury concerns in the first place.

Quote:
I don't get where I assumed that.

Well if you're saying that the O-Line will be good enough that it's not a real concern for a QB to be behind it are you not implying the players on that line will be good?

Quote:
Yeah, we should totally wait to draft a QB until we're no longer bad enough to get a top pick.

Well we're drafting a QB in this draft regardless. It just probably won't be in round 1. And as Caldwell said himself, if he sees his guy he won't be afraid to go and get him. I wouldn't put it past him to trade up when he feels comfortable taking a QB and feels the team is ready to support him.

Quote:
His small frame is no smaller than Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Matt Ryan. He put on weight, and showed that he can carry that weight just fine. Everyone, except you, realizes it's no longer an issue. It was never an issue to begin with, but the fact that he came in where he should have ended the discussion.

Uh, must not, because people still bring up his frame as a concern. Tom Brady has played behind a good O-Line his entire career and was not drafted in the first round (obviously), let's not forget the near career ending injury Brees suffered, and he also was not a first round pick. Body wise Matt Ryan is not as small as Bridgewater. Bridgewater has really skinny limbs, even in comparison to Ryan, and his torso is also smaller. I don't know how good the Falcons' O-Line was back in 2008, but I highly doubt it was as suspect going into the season as our's.

Also, I'm not sure how you can say he moves well with the new weight when he didn't do anything at the combine? Are you basing that off of that 15 second video clip?

Quote:
Further, this is all about the idea that he has a low ceiling. He doesn't. There is nothing about him as a player that you can point to and say definitively that he can't become an elite QB. Andy Dalton is a guy with a low ceiling. He doesn't have the physical traits to be great, and doesn't have the mental aspect down either. There's no such hitch in Teddy. If everything that went right for Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers goes right for Teddy Bridgewater, he will be every bit as good as they are. Does that mean that he's absolutely going to be as good as them? No. But it also says that his "low ceiling" is an unjustified knock on him. These guys with "higher ceilings" have aspects that are ridiculously unobtainable. For instance, Cam Newton's "ceiling" is that of a guy who could be the greatest passer and runner (at QB) in NFL history. He's never going to reach that potential. He can be great, but mentally, he's never going to be the surgeon that Peyton or Brady are. Teddy can be that type of player mentally, but he won't have the same pure physical "height" that Cam has.

If everything goes right for Teddy, he can be Peyton Manning. If everything goes right for Cam, he could be Peyton Manning + Mike Vick. But Teddy's more likely to come closer to his ceiling than Cam is. That doesn't mean that Cam can't be great, and that they both can't be of equal greatness, it just means that Teddy's ceiling is more obtainable because of his incredibly advanced mental make up.
I never said he had a low ceiling, I just said you can't argue he has a high one. He doesn't have elite measurables to argue he has a very high ceiling. Peyton Manning is literally a genius and revolutionized QBing. I don't see Bridgewater being that. Best (realistic) case scenario is he ends up being another Matt Ryan. At worst he ends up being Andy Dalton. But either way, I don't think he will have the kind of transcendent rookie season RGIII, Cam, or even Russell Wilson had (and Luck if you consider what he did great). I see him just being about average. And it would be hard for me to justify passing over clear cut year one star-type talents like Mack, Clowney, and Watkins on a team that's at least 2 years out from seriously competing for that.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vino


Joined: 27 Oct 2013
Posts: 1838
Location: Jacksonville, FL
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadjag wrote:
If physical tools and upside were all it took too be great then we would be golden, Gabby's on the frickin roster. The reason I'm so sold on Teddy is because he has got the important things Gabbert doesn't like accuracy and anticipation.

This whole notion that a player has low upside because he is technically polished is asinine. The slight frame issue is also dumb if he had a long history of injuries then maybe. If anything Teddy has showed +toughness by playing well through injuries.

Please if your going to criticize him then find something real like deep ball accuracy for instance.

1. I never said he had a low ceiling or that him being polished means he can't get better. I said you can't argue he has a high ceiling, and the reason for that is lack of elite measurables. Having a good back story and work ethic and all that is fine, but there are a lot of guys who have come through the NFL with that and didn't end up being great/elite players. Him not being completely crap under pressure is also not enough to convince me he is worth taking at 3. It's unreasonable and unfair to Bridgewater to put those expectations on him because of something as invisible and opinionated as "intangibles".

2. I have and do bring up deep ball accuracy, I just didn't feel the need to put it there because it wasn't necessary for the point I was making. I wasn't criticizing Bridgewater arbitrarily and saying why he will suck, I was saying why it doesn't make sense to take him with the number 3 pick over other players in this draft.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vino


Joined: 27 Oct 2013
Posts: 1838
Location: Jacksonville, FL
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for the record, if Bridgewater were in last year's draft I would have felt more comfortable about taking him with the 2nd pick than I do about taking him with the 3rd this year. It's all about the players that are there. There were no Clowneys or Macks or Watkins in last year's draft, that's not even getting into the top two tackles who are both probably better than Joekel. This draft is too deep, and has too many really good players at positions we need to address just as much as QB to justify taking a maybe-slightly-better-than-average-QB with the number 3 pick.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
iPwn


Global Moderator
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 46869
Location: Warbortles Nation
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was starting to write up a big reply to that. But with Gabbert traded, I'm too excited to answer. The team is drafting their franchise QB this year, and it's probably Teddy Bridgewater.
_________________

- Best since day one -
It may not be easy, but we ain't riding no tire fire merry-go-round.
- Gus Bradley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 1476
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
I was starting to write up a big reply to that. But with Gabbert traded, I'm too excited to answer. The team is drafting their franchise QB this year, and it's probably Teddy Bridgewater.


This, I think Gabbert getting dealt (even though this should have nothing to do with it) makes it almost a certainty.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JagsFanInNY


Joined: 25 Feb 2013
Posts: 1389
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read Vino's posts regarding Teddy and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQpzASkYzI is literally what my brain is saying
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Jacksonville Jaguars All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group