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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

markrc99 wrote:
Woz wrote: "Totally uncalled for. You disagree with his assessment. That's fine. The insult there, uncool."

Turtle isn't assessing, he's just being confrontational for the sake of it. But more than that, they can call me a conspiracy theorist, among other things, but what I said is unacceptable? Seems unfair. I propose that I make a generous donation in return for 1 week of forum wide control! Laughing Okay, okay, it would be a bit chaotic around here but my detractors need to know I can reach them and make their experience in here a living... well, we'll leave that part a secret. I'm thinking $10k will suit just fine, who do I speak to? I'm not trying to make light, I'm not perfect. But if they'd be more civil, it would help.


I think everyone in that discussion needs to try to be more civil. Rhetorical elbows are ok to a point. Its when posts or comments are made with the sole purpose just to antagonize, make fun of or humiliate another poster that I and Woz will have to step in.

This reponse is not just to you, but also to everyone in the discussion of Orakpo with you.

Guys, disagree? Fine. State your case.

If you think the other guy is a looney bird? Fine. Believe what you want...but don't post that here.

We want to foster discussion here fellas. That sometimes means letting discussion free-wheel around so people here feel comfortable expressing their viewpoints. Sometimes that can mean making fun of the argument being expressed. Okay, that can slide (with some exceptions). But we don't make it personal. Draw a distinction between attacking the argument and attacking the poster.

Everyone please keep what I've posted in mind. I know how sports topics can lead to heated discussions. And trust me, if all of us were in a bar, much of the rules for this forum would be out the window. But while we're on Webby's site, we have to follow his rules.

Capische?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
markrc99 wrote:
Woz wrote: "Totally uncalled for. You disagree with his assessment. That's fine. The insult there, uncool."

Turtle isn't assessing, he's just being confrontational for the sake of it. But more than that, they can call me a conspiracy theorist, among other things, but what I said is unacceptable? Seems unfair. I propose that I make a generous donation in return for 1 week of forum wide control! Laughing Okay, okay, it would be a bit chaotic around here but my detractors need to know I can reach them and make their experience in here a living... well, we'll leave that part a secret. I'm thinking $10k will suit just fine, who do I speak to? I'm not trying to make light, I'm not perfect. But if they'd be more civil, it would help.


I think everyone in that discussion needs to try to be more civil. Rhetorical elbows are ok to a point. Its when posts or comments are made with the sole purpose just to antagonize, make fun of or humiliate another poster that I and Woz will have to step in.

This reponse is not just to you, but also to everyone in the discussion of Orakpo with you.

Guys, disagree? Fine. State your case.

If you think the other guy is a looney bird? Fine. Believe what you want...but don't post that here.

We want to foster discussion here fellas. That sometimes means letting discussion free-wheel around so people here feel comfortable expressing their viewpoints. Sometimes that can mean making fun of the argument being expressed. Okay, that can slide (with some exceptions). But we don't make it personal. Draw a distinction between attacking the argument and attacking the poster.

Everyone please keep what I've posted in mind. I know how sports topics can lead to heated discussions. And trust me, if all of us were in a bar, much of the rules for this forum would be out the window. But while we're on Webby's site, we have to follow his rules.

Capische?
Yes. Thanks Thai
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Sassan11 wrote:
Just want to say I read that we have some interest in Brian De La Puenta (sp). Maybe Kory L will stay at guard if we sign him.


Kory Lichtensteiger would have to add about 30 lbs to play LG. He was meant to play Center.

Brian De La Puente would be a nice upgrade to him and is still young. Played in a passing offense under Brees so it could be a feasible option.

I would like the signing.


Even then, I don't want my centers weighing in the 270's (where he is at right now). Even when he bulks up he doesn't tip 290.

Also everyone has to examine how the Saints have protected Brees and kept passing lanes open. Their interior OL is much better than their OTs. This is the opposite of our OL.
Corect me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Brees get rid of the ball faster or as fast as anyone in the NFL

Do you think that has to do with him not taking many sacks?

Rg3 holds onto the ball too long of things aren't open, he tries to by time and run around instead of ever throwing the ball away.

De La Puente is certainly an upgrade but everyone is making too big a deal or Kory's size. Kory has been an average to above average starter since he first started in 2010 and I really don't see that changing if he's starting this year.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Sassan11 wrote:
Just want to say I read that we have some interest in Brian De La Puenta (sp). Maybe Kory L will stay at guard if we sign him.


Kory Lichtensteiger would have to add about 30 lbs to play LG. He was meant to play Center.

Brian De La Puente would be a nice upgrade to him and is still young. Played in a passing offense under Brees so it could be a feasible option.

I would like the signing.


Even then, I don't want my centers weighing in the 270's (where he is at right now). Even when he bulks up he doesn't tip 290.

Also everyone has to examine how the Saints have protected Brees and kept passing lanes open. Their interior OL is much better than their OTs. This is the opposite of our OL.
Corect me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Brees get rid of the ball faster or as fast as anyone in the NFL

Do you think that has to do with him not taking many sacks?

Rg3 holds onto the ball too long of things aren't open, he tries to by time and run around instead of ever throwing the ball away.

De La Puente is certainly an upgrade but everyone is making too big a deal or Kory's size. Kory has been an average to above average starter since he first started in 2010 and I really don't see that changing if he's starting this year.


He does have a quick release many times (nothing like Peyton IIRC) but from what games I've seen, his interior OL allows him the time to step up in the pocket and find his 2nd,3rd,4th receiver. His OTs just try to keep their man from getting that crucial inside step and ride their man to the outside and behind. The interior holds up and provides passing lanes and Brees can step up and throw. Griffin does hold onto the ball too long and he has to work on it. But I'm not putting all of that on him. Some of that also has to do with trying to find his receiver with a NT in his face.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Sassan11 wrote:
Just want to say I read that we have some interest in Brian De La Puenta (sp). Maybe Kory L will stay at guard if we sign him.


Kory Lichtensteiger would have to add about 30 lbs to play LG. He was meant to play Center.

Brian De La Puente would be a nice upgrade to him and is still young. Played in a passing offense under Brees so it could be a feasible option.

I would like the signing.


Even then, I don't want my centers weighing in the 270's (where he is at right now). Even when he bulks up he doesn't tip 290.

Also everyone has to examine how the Saints have protected Brees and kept passing lanes open. Their interior OL is much better than their OTs. This is the opposite of our OL.
Corect me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Brees get rid of the ball faster or as fast as anyone in the NFL

Do you think that has to do with him not taking many sacks?

Rg3 holds onto the ball too long of things aren't open, he tries to by time and run around instead of ever throwing the ball away.

De La Puente is certainly an upgrade but everyone is making too big a deal or Kory's size. Kory has been an average to above average starter since he first started in 2010 and I really don't see that changing if he's starting this year.


He does have a quick release many times (nothing like Peyton IIRC) but from what games I've seen, his interior OL allows him the time to step up in the pocket and find his 2nd,3rd,4th receiver. His OTs just try to keep their man from getting that crucial inside step and ride their man to the outside and behind. The interior holds up and provides passing lanes and Brees can step up and throw. Griffin does hold onto the ball too long and he has to work on it. But I'm not putting all of that on him. Some of that also has to do with trying to find his receiver with a NT in his face.
Yes, but at the same time as we've discussed before RG3 has poor pocket awareness on top of him not getting ball out fast, not making quick decisions and not getting off his first read to get to his 2nd read or checkdowns. The guy frankly runs backwards a lot in the pocket and retreats from pressure instead of sliding to the side to avoid a rush the way Brady, Brees and Manning do.

I think if RG3 learns better pocket awareness and learns to side in the pocket, move up, back, and side to side instead of literally running backwards or sideways and having to then, reset before throwing our OL would look a whole lot better.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
mike23md wrote:
Sassan11 wrote:
Just want to say I read that we have some interest in Brian De La Puenta (sp). Maybe Kory L will stay at guard if we sign him.


Kory Lichtensteiger would have to add about 30 lbs to play LG. He was meant to play Center.

Brian De La Puente would be a nice upgrade to him and is still young. Played in a passing offense under Brees so it could be a feasible option.

I would like the signing.


Even then, I don't want my centers weighing in the 270's (where he is at right now). Even when he bulks up he doesn't tip 290.

Also everyone has to examine how the Saints have protected Brees and kept passing lanes open. Their interior OL is much better than their OTs. This is the opposite of our OL.
Corect me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Brees get rid of the ball faster or as fast as anyone in the NFL

Do you think that has to do with him not taking many sacks?

Rg3 holds onto the ball too long of things aren't open, he tries to by time and run around instead of ever throwing the ball away.

De La Puente is certainly an upgrade but everyone is making too big a deal or Kory's size. Kory has been an average to above average starter since he first started in 2010 and I really don't see that changing if he's starting this year.


He does have a quick release many times (nothing like Peyton IIRC) but from what games I've seen, his interior OL allows him the time to step up in the pocket and find his 2nd,3rd,4th receiver. His OTs just try to keep their man from getting that crucial inside step and ride their man to the outside and behind. The interior holds up and provides passing lanes and Brees can step up and throw. Griffin does hold onto the ball too long and he has to work on it. But I'm not putting all of that on him. Some of that also has to do with trying to find his receiver with a NT in his face.
Yes, but at the same time as we've discussed before RG3 has poor pocket awareness on top of him not getting ball out fast, not making quick decisions and not getting off his first read to get to his 2nd read or checkdowns. The guy frankly runs backwards a lot in the pocket and retreats from pressure instead of sliding to the side to avoid a rush the way Brady, Brees and Manning do.

I think if RG3 learns better pocket awareness and learns to side in the pocket, move up, back, and side to side instead of literally running backwards or sideways and having to then, reset before throwing our OL would look a whole lot better.


Oh we ABSOLUTELY agree here. I think I put the OL at fault on that as maybe 10-20% of the time right now. Because Kirk, for all his other faults, seemed to have the time to throw. So yes, we absolutely agree that Griffin needs to have better pocket awareness and that he is the proximate cause for the ball coming out late (or not at all).
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/20/eric-weems-expected-to-be-released-after-declining-pay-cut/

Eric Weems to be cut by bears.

He's a WR, but is more of a special teams ace. He used to be a good return man in ATL, but didn't do returns in Chicago because they had Hester. He still primarily played special teams. This is the type of guy you want as a 5th WR, but primarily a special teams ace.
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tyler735


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/20/eric-weems-expected-to-be-released-after-declining-pay-cut/

Eric Weems to be cut by bears.

He's a WR, but is more of a special teams ace. He used to be a good return man in ATL, but didn't do returns in Chicago because they had Hester. He still primarily played special teams. This is the type of guy you want as a 5th WR, but primarily a special teams ace.


Pass if anything that is way more of a "luxury" signing than drafting a guy like Archer who is far more explosive and gives more to the team on offense and special teams
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/20/eric-weems-expected-to-be-released-after-declining-pay-cut/

Eric Weems to be cut by bears.

He's a WR, but is more of a special teams ace. He used to be a good return man in ATL, but didn't do returns in Chicago because they had Hester. He still primarily played special teams. This is the type of guy you want as a 5th WR, but primarily a special teams ace.


Pass if anything that is way more of a "luxury" signing than drafting a guy like Archer who is far more explosive and gives more to the team on offense and special teams
We don't have to spend a draft pick on Weems. To my knowledge Archer isn't a gunner on kick off and punt units, we need that. That's why we need a guy like Weems. Outside of Paul, last year we didn't have a gunner worth crap to cover punts.
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tyler735


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/20/eric-weems-expected-to-be-released-after-declining-pay-cut/

Eric Weems to be cut by bears.

He's a WR, but is more of a special teams ace. He used to be a good return man in ATL, but didn't do returns in Chicago because they had Hester. He still primarily played special teams. This is the type of guy you want as a 5th WR, but primarily a special teams ace.


Pass if anything that is way more of a "luxury" signing than drafting a guy like Archer who is far more explosive and gives more to the team on offense and special teams
We don't have to spend a draft pick on Weems. To my knowledge Archer isn't a gunner on kick off and punt units, we need that. That's why we need a guy like Weems. Outside of Paul, last year we didn't have a gunner worth crap to cover punts.


Have we forgot about Trent Robinson? Also Gumbs likely could play gunner as well and as you mentioned we have Paul still who was solid for us. Then we also signed all sorts of ILBs that can contribute on special teams...so yeah I'd rather go the Archer route still
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/20/eric-weems-expected-to-be-released-after-declining-pay-cut/

Eric Weems to be cut by bears.

He's a WR, but is more of a special teams ace. He used to be a good return man in ATL, but didn't do returns in Chicago because they had Hester. He still primarily played special teams. This is the type of guy you want as a 5th WR, but primarily a special teams ace.


Pass if anything that is way more of a "luxury" signing than drafting a guy like Archer who is far more explosive and gives more to the team on offense and special teams
We don't have to spend a draft pick on Weems. To my knowledge Archer isn't a gunner on kick off and punt units, we need that. That's why we need a guy like Weems. Outside of Paul, last year we didn't have a gunner worth crap to cover punts.


Have we forgot about Trent Robinson? Also Gumbs likely could play gunner as well and as you mentioned we have Paul still who was solid for us. Then we also signed all sorts of ILBs that can contribute on special teams...so yeah I'd rather go the Archer route still
I realize you want Archer. Gumbs & Robinson are long shots to make the a roster if Rambo tackles better and Thomas is healthy.

I doubt they use a 4th on Archer or DeAnthony Thomas when there are bigger needs and many question marks along the OL, at WR, with the DBs, and the OLB, Ilb & DL could all use another young talented prospect to develop.
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tyler735


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/20/eric-weems-expected-to-be-released-after-declining-pay-cut/

Eric Weems to be cut by bears.

He's a WR, but is more of a special teams ace. He used to be a good return man in ATL, but didn't do returns in Chicago because they had Hester. He still primarily played special teams. This is the type of guy you want as a 5th WR, but primarily a special teams ace.


Pass if anything that is way more of a "luxury" signing than drafting a guy like Archer who is far more explosive and gives more to the team on offense and special teams
We don't have to spend a draft pick on Weems. To my knowledge Archer isn't a gunner on kick off and punt units, we need that. That's why we need a guy like Weems. Outside of Paul, last year we didn't have a gunner worth crap to cover punts.


Have we forgot about Trent Robinson? Also Gumbs likely could play gunner as well and as you mentioned we have Paul still who was solid for us. Then we also signed all sorts of ILBs that can contribute on special teams...so yeah I'd rather go the Archer route still
I realize you want Archer. Gumbs & Robinson are long shots to make the a roster if Rambo tackles better and Thomas is healthy.

I doubt they use a 4th on Archer or DeAnthony Thomas when there are bigger needs and many question marks along the OL, at WR, with the DBs, and the OLB, Ilb & DL could all use another young talented prospect to develop.


If that is the case then we certainly wouldn't bring in a guy that has only produced 200 yards on offense in 6 nfl seasons which is what Weems has done on his career. Pretty much a waste of a good roster spot. At least a guy like Archer could compete for playing time at wr with a guy like Aldrick Robinson who has shown little through 3 seasons. So yeah I think it is a perfect use of a draft pick to get archer in 4th/5th.

Ilb is hardly a need at this point. We have addressed O-line some and still could add another in the draft so that is not much of a problem. OLB we could draft someone late or sign a guy still we have our starters set. Dline doesn't really need to be addressed anymore we have our starters now and some depth behind them. Plus we have 5 picks to use still if we were to draft archer, so I have no problem with going that direction.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/20/eric-weems-expected-to-be-released-after-declining-pay-cut/

Eric Weems to be cut by bears.

He's a WR, but is more of a special teams ace. He used to be a good return man in ATL, but didn't do returns in Chicago because they had Hester. He still primarily played special teams. This is the type of guy you want as a 5th WR, but primarily a special teams ace.


Pass if anything that is way more of a "luxury" signing than drafting a guy like Archer who is far more explosive and gives more to the team on offense and special teams
We don't have to spend a draft pick on Weems. To my knowledge Archer isn't a gunner on kick off and punt units, we need that. That's why we need a guy like Weems. Outside of Paul, last year we didn't have a gunner worth crap to cover punts.


Have we forgot about Trent Robinson? Also Gumbs likely could play gunner as well and as you mentioned we have Paul still who was solid for us. Then we also signed all sorts of ILBs that can contribute on special teams...so yeah I'd rather go the Archer route still
I realize you want Archer. Gumbs & Robinson are long shots to make the a roster if Rambo tackles better and Thomas is healthy.

I doubt they use a 4th on Archer or DeAnthony Thomas when there are bigger needs and many question marks along the OL, at WR, with the DBs, and the OLB, Ilb & DL could all use another young talented prospect to develop.


If that is the case then we certainly wouldn't bring in a guy that has only produced 200 yards on offense in 6 nfl seasons which is what Weems has done on his career. Pretty much a waste of a good roster spot. At least a guy like Archer could compete for playing time at wr with a guy like Aldrick Robinson who has shown little through 3 seasons. So yeah I think it is a perfect use of a draft pick to get archer in 4th/5th.

Ilb is hardly a need at this point. We have addressed O-line some and still could add another in the draft so that is not much of a problem. OLB we could draft someone late or sign a guy still we have our starters set. Dline doesn't really need to be addressed anymore we have our starters now and some depth behind them. Plus we have 5 picks to use still if we were to draft archer, so I have no problem with going that direction.
I don't see him beating out Robinson for playing time. Robinson is Garçons back up and he hasn't been as bad as many lead to believe in that role. When given consistent playing time he's performed well. I've proven it countless times, you choose to ignore it. He's also only had two years of active roster time, as a 6th round rookie he was on the practice squad as most 6th and 7th round rookies are.

ILB is still a need for the long term, we need a player to develop for our future. Sharpton and Jordan are only on one year deals. Keenan Robinson is an enigma because he hasn't been able to stay healthy since Nov 2012. We need a young guy to develop.

I'd like to get better depth at other positions like OLB, DL, WR and OL where we could use better younger depth and Archer isn't a true WR.

Again, we're stacked at running back. It's our deepest position and Archer isn't a true every down WR who's going to threaten any of our current wrs for much playingtime.

Sorry, you can keep posting and posting about it but you're not convincing me that we need him or that he'll get much playing time on offense over Helu & Robinson.
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tyler735


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
tyler735 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/20/eric-weems-expected-to-be-released-after-declining-pay-cut/

Eric Weems to be cut by bears.

He's a WR, but is more of a special teams ace. He used to be a good return man in ATL, but didn't do returns in Chicago because they had Hester. He still primarily played special teams. This is the type of guy you want as a 5th WR, but primarily a special teams ace.


Pass if anything that is way more of a "luxury" signing than drafting a guy like Archer who is far more explosive and gives more to the team on offense and special teams
We don't have to spend a draft pick on Weems. To my knowledge Archer isn't a gunner on kick off and punt units, we need that. That's why we need a guy like Weems. Outside of Paul, last year we didn't have a gunner worth crap to cover punts.


Have we forgot about Trent Robinson? Also Gumbs likely could play gunner as well and as you mentioned we have Paul still who was solid for us. Then we also signed all sorts of ILBs that can contribute on special teams...so yeah I'd rather go the Archer route still
I realize you want Archer. Gumbs & Robinson are long shots to make the a roster if Rambo tackles better and Thomas is healthy.

I doubt they use a 4th on Archer or DeAnthony Thomas when there are bigger needs and many question marks along the OL, at WR, with the DBs, and the OLB, Ilb & DL could all use another young talented prospect to develop.


If that is the case then we certainly wouldn't bring in a guy that has only produced 200 yards on offense in 6 nfl seasons which is what Weems has done on his career. Pretty much a waste of a good roster spot. At least a guy like Archer could compete for playing time at wr with a guy like Aldrick Robinson who has shown little through 3 seasons. So yeah I think it is a perfect use of a draft pick to get archer in 4th/5th.

Ilb is hardly a need at this point. We have addressed O-line some and still could add another in the draft so that is not much of a problem. OLB we could draft someone late or sign a guy still we have our starters set. Dline doesn't really need to be addressed anymore we have our starters now and some depth behind them. Plus we have 5 picks to use still if we were to draft archer, so I have no problem with going that direction.
I don't see him beating out Robinson for playing time. Robinson is Garçons back up and he hasn't been as bad as many lead to believe in that role. When given consistent playing time he's performed well. I've proven it countless times, you choose to ignore it. He's also only had two years of active roster time, as a 6th round rookie he was on the practice squad as most 6th and 7th round rookies are.

ILB is still a need for the long term, we need a player to develop for our future. Sharpton and Jordan are only on one year deals. Keenan Robinson is an enigma because he hasn't been able to stay healthy since Nov 2012. We need a young guy to develop.

I'd like to get better depth at other positions like OLB, DL, WR and OL where we could use better younger depth and Archer isn't a true WR.

Again, we're stacked at running back. It's our deepest position and Archer isn't a true every down WR who's going to threaten any of our current wrs for much playingtime.

Sorry, you can keep posting and posting about it but you're not convincing me that we need him or that he'll get much playing time on offense over Helu & Robinson.


So Robinson is an enigma (That is fair at this point, but he has enough talent to be a starter if he can stay healthy), and is paired along with Hayward/Jordan/Sharpton. That is 4 guys that could start for us opposite Riley. Lets let them show what they can do before we potentially waste a pick on a spot we may not even need. None of those guys are over 30, so they are all just entering, or are hitting their prime. Lets not jump the gun here. If they don't work out for some strange reason then ILB is a need, but for now...It is no longer a need. As we've both agreed on before ILB is a spot where rookies don't have a hard time transitioning, so if we draft a guy next year, he shouldn't have much of a problem stepping into a starting role.

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I have given countless statistics, examples of poor plays, and played the patience game with Robinson for 3 seasons to see very little improvement.

He had a catch rate of 39% this past season. That is terrible.

He did actually see the field quite a bit in the last 4 games. So I guess if you want to use the last 4 games of the season, since in those games he played more than just a deep threat role, he had a catch rate of 44%, which is still absolutely terrible.

To make matters worse lets take a look at the teams he went against in that 4 game stretch:

Chiefs...He didn't really play until late in the game when the Chiefs were playing their backups.

Falcons...They were very likely the worst defense in the league. Especially at the end of the season.

Giants...They also ranked among the worst in football

Cowboys...They were another team that had hardly anything going for their defense at the end of the season.

In other words, Robinson still put up a garbage catch rate against terrible teams. This is going to be season number 4 for Robinson, I don't have a lot of hope for him being more than an occasional deep threat...

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As I've said countless times, drafting Archer doesn't prevent us from addressing some of those other positions. We still have 5 more draft picks if we pick him. This isn't a 1 year rebuilding plan, but as it is we have no glaring weaknesses anymore after a very solid free agency. We do have some question marks at a few positions that won't be answered until the season is underway and were are able to see how some guys perform (FS, Guard, ILB). Other than that we need 1 or 2 WR's still as we have terrible depth, could use another O-lineman, and really can go BPA outside of that.

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You say Archer isn't a true WR, which isn't really true. He is essentially a swiss army knife (WR/RB/KR). He was an effective slot WR for Kent State, and showed he was able to successfully run all sorts of different routes, which I have given evidence of/proven. He spent the majority of his time at RB, which would likely change in the NFL, but he still could make some plays at RB as a change of pace running the ball, and a lethal WR out of the backfield. Aldrick Robinson has shown little as a route runner from what I have seen. He hasn't run as diverse of a route tree in comparison to Archer at the college or pro level, so yeah I do strongly disagree that Archer can't take playing time away from Robinson. That means as it stands the only WR's Archer wouldn't be taking playing time from are Garcon, and Roberts. I've mentioned that Gruden is known for using multiple different WR's every game/loves to sub WR's In/Out, and just had a RB in Bernard who was very versatile that could line up all over the place.

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We very well may not end up with Archer, but regardless I do think he is both a more talented player, and WR compared to Robinson, and could be lethal with RG3. It's not so much about convincing you, I more so just like to look back on players I have been very high on in past drafts and see how well I predict their success/abilities as a player, even when the general consensus disagrees with my viewpoint.

Some of my favorite examples:

I had lengthy write ups on this site that RG3 was going to be a high first round pick years before his Heisman season. Some draft experts thought RG3 was going to be a WR convert around this time, which looking back is absolutely hilarious.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/page/NextLevel120419/doubters-drove-robert-griffin-iii-make-big-leap

In 2008, I caught quite a bit of flack on this site for having Jamaal Charles rated as my number 1 RB over guys like D. Mcfadden, Jonathon Stewart, Rashard Mendenhall, Etc. Many thought Charles was just another track guy that played football, but I described a lot of the traits I saw in him that I felt would make him a great NFL RB that he has shown for the last several years.

Heck last season I was extremely high on Marquise Goodwin in comparison to the draft experts. I had him pegged as a better pro than college player that should be picked in the mid rounds because of the abilities/qualities he had shown when he was on the field. This was all long before he blew up at the combine. There were many draft experts that had him pegged as an 7th round/UDFA up until the combine. He unfortunately broke a bone in his hand the 1st game of the season, and had one of the worst QB situations in the NFL, but despite that put up solid numbers when he got his chances, made some nice catches, and beat some talented CB's on deep balls for long TD's. In limited playing time with those things working against him, he was able to match his college career high in receiving touchdowns as just a rookie.

Obviously I have also had my share of bad ones as well, but basically I try to call it like I see it with prospects, and not be too heavily influenced by the draft experts if I see something differently with a prospect. It's all in good fun, and I just really enjoy the whole scouting aspect of football.

This year I have two strong opinions that many might not agree with. I have Jordan Matthews rated as my number 1 WR in the draft, and as we have gone over recently I am quite fond of Dri Archer if you haven't noticed lol. I suppose I could also add in my man Mike Davis to that list of players I am higher than most on, but since we signed Andre Roberts my interest for him has died down a bit as they are capable of a lot of the same things as players, so I'd rather look a different direction than Davis for us unless he falls farther in the draft than anticipated.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really didn't read my main point about the 2 of the 3 linebackers we signed in free agency, they're on 1 year contracts. Which means the team doesn't know if they have their long term answer next to Riley and they still might try to find it in the draft.

I have no idea what catch rate means and how they determine it. I'm guessing it has more factors in it than just catching the ball because I can't remember Aldrick Robinson dropping too many passes the last half of the year. I do remember almost all his receptions and yards came in the second half of the year and if you prorated that production out over the corse of 16 games he'd have around 40 catches, 600 YDs and 4 or 5 Tds, which is around what you expect from a #3 WR.

As for Archer, if you have to explain the multiple things he does and call him a Swiss Army knife, then he's not a true full time wide receiver, I'm sorry. You also don't generally see full time wide receivers his size. I just don't see him more than a scat back, 3rd down back and slot receiver on offense they won't get many reps because they have more reliable players at those positions. I think he's more primarily a special teamer which teams use for mostly gadget plays or when they want to get him the ball in space to use his speed on screens
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