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State of the Franchise: Passing Game
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bulldog


Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 5833
Location: Salem
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:26 am    Post subject: State of the Franchise: Passing Game Reply with quote

State of the Franchise: Passing Game

>My focus will be on the passing game this time around. This means the pass blocking by the OL, TE's and RB's. Pass catching ability by the WR, TE, and RB. and the ability of the QB.

>I'm only going to cover players that had a major role in 2013 and/or will have a likely future with the team in 2014. That means no Trent Richardson. I'm also only going to view Hoyer as the QB, since he is likely the only one to be on the roster, but I will compare his notes to other QB's in the league.

Lets start with Hoyer while we are at it.

Brian Hoyer

The Basics
>Rankings are based on 41 qualified QB's from 2013.
-Dropbacks - 104
-Att - 96
-Comp % - 59.4
-YPA - 6.41
-Batted passes - 1
-Touchdown -
-Interceptions -

Little extra
-Accuracy=Completion % excluding drops, throw aways, and batted passes - 71.6% ( 23rd)
-Percentage of yards thrown actually in air - 53.2% (26th)

How is Hoyer under pressure?
-Total Pressures - 30 (28.8% of the time) (5th least)
-Sacks - 6
-Att - 22
-Comp - 45.5% (23rd)
-Accuracy - 66.7% (9th)
-TD - 0
-INT - 1

>Weeden and Campbell were pressured on 38.2% and 37.6% of drop backs. 27th and 30th in the league.

How does Hoyer's stats look based on time in the pocket?
-Avg time till throw - 2.43 seconds. (2nd)
results when pass is under 2.5 seconds
-Att- 57
-Comp % - 68.4% (14th)
-Sack - 0
-QB rating - 82.4

Results when pass is over 2.5 seconds
-Att - 39
-Comp % - 46.2% (41st)
-Sack - 6
-QB rating - 82.9

Who was the weak link in pass blocking?
>Pass blocking effiency is the number of sacks hit and hurries in relation to pass blocking snaps with a weight towards sacks. The higher the percentage, the better.

Barnidge - 97.8% (4th of 35)
Mack - 97.4% (21st of 35)
Cameron - 97.3% (10th of 35)
Pinkston - 97.1% (15th of 79)
Thomas - 96.2% (5th of 76)
Gilkey - 96.2% (35th of 79)
Greco - 96.1% (36th of 79)
Lauvao - 95.9% (41st of 79)
Schwartz - 93.1% (58th of 76)
Ogbonnaya - 92.7% (29th of 54)
Cousins - 91.7% (76th of 79)
McGahee - 87.9% (51st of 54)

>While these numbers don't take into account the fact when QB's hold the ball too long, missed blocks by others, etc...I decided to look at some PFF's grades and note them to help separate that bad and good.

>Thomas(29.8 ), Barnidge(7.2), Mack, Schwartz(3.3), Greco(2.2), and Pinkston(1.7) all recieved positive grades from PFF. Thomas, Mack and Barnidge were all among the best at their positions. Schwartz's second half was something of a major turn around as well, ranking 22nd in pass block grade with a grade of 10.1

>Cousins(-13.1), Lauvao(-3.1), and Oby(-0.9) all received negative grades. All others were average. Cousins was terribad.

>Schwartz really turned it around in the second half allowing only 24 total pressures, compared to his 41 in the first half of the season. PFF didn't give Schwartz a negative grade during the second half of the season.

Who did the most damage as a receiver?
Josh Gordon
-PFF pass grade - 12.2 (15th)
-% of targets caught - 58.4%
-YAC/REC - 7.3 (6th)
-Drops - 9
-Missed tackles forced - 10 (20th)

Jordan Cameron
-PFF pass grade - 5.8 (13th)
-% of targets caught - 73.4 (16th)
-YAC/REC - 3.0 (53rd)
-Drops - 5
-Missed tackles forced - 5 (16th)

Davone Bess
-PFF pass grade - -11.4 (109th)
-% of targets caught - 50.6
-YAC/REC - 3.4 (89th)
-Drops - 14
-Missed tackles forced - 1 (91st)

Greg Little
-PFF pass grade - -16.5 (111th DEAD LAST)
-% of targets caught - 46.6
-YAC/REC - 4.6 (56th)
-Drops - 8
-Missed tackles forced - 4 (55th)

Chris Ogbonnaya
-PFF pass grade - -4.3(52nd)
-% of targets caught -
-Drops - 5
-Missed tackles forced - 3

Fozzy Whittaker
-PFF pass grade - -1.9(41st)
-% of targets caught -
-Drops - 5
-Missed tackles forced - 4

>Gordon is the total package. And he's so young. We may have a superstar on our hands.

>Cameron is a frustration. His Pass Grade of 9.0 during the first eight games would rank 5th, but he fell on his face the second half of the year with a grade of -3.2. This is a major concern and lets hope he can continue to develop.

>Bess and Little were just down right terrible. Bess lost his mind and Little can't figure out how to run a route.

>The Browns also got very little help in the receiving game from the RB's. No one could take over and be even average.

Bulldog's Final Analysis

>The Browns have cornerstones at LT, C (hopefully), #1 WR. They also have promise at RT as Schwartz rebounded from his terrible start to the season. Cameron can be great, if he continues to work on running routes and using his body more. He doesn't "create" yards on his own. Hes not a dangerous threat with the ball in his hands. But he's big, fast, and can jump high with really good hands. He needs to build on that.

>The Browns have a pretty good starter in Greco. Most won't agree, but until this year, Greco has been graded positive for a run blocker his entire career for PFF. He seems more at home at RG than LG, however.

>The Browns need at least 2 WRs. Little in on thin ice and Bess is gone.

>RB's are needed. Lewis will provide some spark, as did Baker late in the year. But they need more than they have offered.

>One or more of Gray, Gurley, Gilkey, Benjamin, or Martin Wallace (OT) could be a surprise during TC next year.

>Hoyer is a decent QB. Better than most give him credit for. He has the tools to be a quality QB in the league. He will have his shot during TC and at the very worst he will be a quality backup QB to have.
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cattleman78


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do the linemen fare going to Shanny's blocking scheme. I've read Thomas and Mack fit. Schwartz might and the guards probably not.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cattleman78 wrote:
How do the linemen fare going to Shanny's blocking scheme. I've read Thomas and Mack fit. Schwartz might and the guards probably not.


TBH, I have no idea.

I know every team runs some sort of zone blocking principals. But I don't know how drastic the difference is for Shanny's system.

And actually, looking over PFF for the last 3 years, neither HOU or WAS has had great guard play. Brandon Brooks had a stellar year run blocking this year, but outside of that, there's not much.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And to build on that Cattleman, Martin Wallace is a guy to watch.

He was the 13th ranked OT during the Preseason. At 6'6" and 306lbs, he's about the size for a OL, and he's a smart technical player.

Also, Ryan Harris is a FA. That guy has been a RT in a full blown ZBS his whole career.
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pscottdai


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How does Hoyer's stats look based on time in the pocket?
-Avg time till throw - 2.43 seconds. (2nd)
results when pass is under 2.5 seconds


This is what made Hoyer look so good during the games he played. He didn't mess around with the ball, just threw it. I still think he is fairly inaccurate at distance but man does he have a quick release.
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pscottdai wrote:
Quote:
How does Hoyer's stats look based on time in the pocket?
-Avg time till throw - 2.43 seconds. (2nd)
results when pass is under 2.5 seconds


This is what made Hoyer look so good during the games he played. He didn't mess around with the ball, just threw it. I still think he is fairly inaccurate at distance but man does he have a quick release.


Yep. Makes quick decisions. My only beef with him is his ball flutters badly beyond 20+ yards. His downfield throws are a hot mess. Now if we go more to a horizontal offense with Shanny, maybe he can flourish. I don't know, 3 regular season games and a couple pre-season games is hard to assess. But that deep ball Laughing
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Tully305


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we could excel taking elements of the 49ers WC offense utilized in the 90s. Hoyer can get the ball out quick to Gordon and Cameron on quick crisp routes and let them create YAC.

What I feel we've been missing for years is a Ricky Watters type that is a rushing threat but moreso a receiving threat out of the backfield.
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Browns1987


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is also Faulk, maybe we can get some production from him.

I fully agree with the need of 2 WR and 1 RB.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
pscottdai wrote:
Quote:
How does Hoyer's stats look based on time in the pocket?
-Avg time till throw - 2.43 seconds. (2nd)
results when pass is under 2.5 seconds


This is what made Hoyer look so good during the games he played. He didn't mess around with the ball, just threw it. I still think he is fairly inaccurate at distance but man does he have a quick release.


Yep. Makes quick decisions. My only beef with him is his ball flutters badly beyond 20+ yards. His downfield throws are a hot mess. Now if we go more to a horizontal offense with Shanny, maybe he can flourish. I don't know, 3 regular season games and a couple pre-season games is hard to assess. But that deep ball Laughing


Agreed.

A lot can be said for simply being able to read a defense and get the ball out.

To me, we actually appeared to have a competent NFL offense when he was under center. We spread the ball around, made plays and were competitve.

He did throw an atrocious pick against Minny though.
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zaklco


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
pscottdai wrote:
Quote:
How does Hoyer's stats look based on time in the pocket?
-Avg time till throw - 2.43 seconds. (2nd)
results when pass is under 2.5 seconds


This is what made Hoyer look so good during the games he played. He didn't mess around with the ball, just threw it. I still think he is fairly inaccurate at distance but man does he have a quick release.


Yep. Makes quick decisions. My only beef with him is his ball flutters badly beyond 20+ yards. His downfield throws are a hot mess. Now if we go more to a horizontal offense with Shanny, maybe he can flourish. I don't know, 3 regular season games and a couple pre-season games is hard to assess. But that deep ball Laughing


Agreed.

A lot can be said for simply being able to read a defense and get the ball out.

To me, we actually appeared to have a competent NFL offense when he was under center. We spread the ball around, made plays and were competitve.

He did throw an atrocious pick against Minny though.


Makes me wonder how he'll look with teams gameplanning against him though. Might not be so easy to get the ball out that quick.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaklco wrote:
LETSGOBROWNIES wrote:
Bonanza23 wrote:
pscottdai wrote:
Quote:
How does Hoyer's stats look based on time in the pocket?
-Avg time till throw - 2.43 seconds. (2nd)
results when pass is under 2.5 seconds


This is what made Hoyer look so good during the games he played. He didn't mess around with the ball, just threw it. I still think he is fairly inaccurate at distance but man does he have a quick release.


Yep. Makes quick decisions. My only beef with him is his ball flutters badly beyond 20+ yards. His downfield throws are a hot mess. Now if we go more to a horizontal offense with Shanny, maybe he can flourish. I don't know, 3 regular season games and a couple pre-season games is hard to assess. But that deep ball Laughing


Agreed.

A lot can be said for simply being able to read a defense and get the ball out.

To me, we actually appeared to have a competent NFL offense when he was under center. We spread the ball around, made plays and were competitve.

He did throw an atrocious pick against Minny though.


Makes me wonder how he'll look with teams gameplanning against him though. Might not be so easy to get the ball out that quick.


Very true.

Once teams figure out what he likes to do with his first read and what part of the field he throws to well, they'll work to take that away.

We'll see if he is able to adjust.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hoyer's completion percentage when taking longer than 2.5 seconds is pretty dreadful.

And those pressure stats are pretty worrisome. With so little pressure faced (Partly because of that 2.5 release time I imagine) its hard to extrapolate what he'll do with more pressure.

Especially against good defenses.
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hornbybrown


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
Hoyer's completion percentage when taking longer than 2.5 seconds is pretty dreadful.

And those pressure stats are pretty worrisome. With so little pressure faced (Partly because of that 2.5 release time I imagine) its hard to extrapolate what he'll do with more pressure.

Especially against good defenses.


Yeah I look at those stats and I have come away worried about Hoyer. I think he might not be much more than a good stop gap for a year or two.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornbybrown wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
Hoyer's completion percentage when taking longer than 2.5 seconds is pretty dreadful.

And those pressure stats are pretty worrisome. With so little pressure faced (Partly because of that 2.5 release time I imagine) its hard to extrapolate what he'll do with more pressure.

Especially against good defenses.


Yeah I look at those stats and I have come away worried about Hoyer. I think he might not be much more than a good stop gap for a year or two.


God willing, 6 games before our rookie gets to play
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LETSGOBROWNIES


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Estonianzulu wrote:
Hoyer's completion percentage when taking longer than 2.5 seconds is pretty dreadful.

And those pressure stats are pretty worrisome. With so little pressure faced (Partly because of that 2.5 release time I imagine) its hard to extrapolate what he'll do with more pressure.

Especially against good defenses.


In all fairness to Hoyer, the Cincinnati D is pretty solid.
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