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Proof that Jerry is learning from Garrett, others....
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buckwild


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 1979
Location: Ft Worth, Tx
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
PincheJimmy wrote:


I counted 20 teams with 1 or less playoff win , that's a lot of mediocrity Smile


This is exactly what I have been telling Slam and Wizard. While your total is a bit off, this team has accomplished more in the last "17 years" (Good point above about folks using 17 as a marker cause it bolsters their argument) than a lot of teams have. There are teams that would be happy to finish 8-8 and compete for a division crown in the final few weeks, let alone doing that 3 years in a row. Do you wanna win it and win some playoff games? 'Course ya do. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be thankful in some fashion for at least having had a competitive season. Cause a lot of teams don't, for much longer stretches than this team has ever experienced.


So we should be Thankful for being mediocre? Slam showed that there are 17 other teams that have more than 1 playoff win in the last 10 years. I guess since I've been a Cowboy fan since the 70's I expect more from "America's Team" than being mediocre.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
PincheJimmy wrote:


I counted 20 teams with 1 or less playoff win , that's a lot of mediocrity Smile


This is exactly what I have been telling Slam and Wizard. While your total is a bit off, this team has accomplished more in the last "17 years" (Good point above about folks using 17 as a marker cause it bolsters their argument) than a lot of teams have. There are teams that would be happy to finish 8-8 and compete for a division crown in the final few weeks, let alone doing that 3 years in a row. Do you wanna win it and win some playoff games? 'Course ya do. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be thankful in some fashion for at least having had a competitive season. Cause a lot of teams don't, for much longer stretches than this team has ever experienced.


So we should be Thankful for being mediocre? Slam showed that there are 17 other teams that have more than 1 playoff win in the last 10 years. I guess since I've been a Cowboy fan since the 70's I expect more from "America's Team" than being mediocre.



We should be thankful we have been competitive. That for the last 3 years we have competed for a division title. That we won a playoff game in the last five years. That we have a team that can win games and give us a shot to win every week.

Do you want rings? Yes. But only one team in 32 wins one per year. There is a chance this team never wins another ring so long as the NFL exists, regardless of owner, GM, or coach. Know why? It's hard to win them.

You always want to do better. If you aren't the tops, you wish you were. But this team, could also have done far worse. And for that I'm thankful. To be in the race in the final games is something half of the league, by that point, could only wish to be for the next year.
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TheStarStillShines


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A team that has been 8-8 or worse in each of the last 4 years is not a competitive team. They might be in games, but that's just entertainment. To be competitive means winning those late December/early January games, getting into the playoffs, and winning at that point. If the team cannot even qualify for the playoffs, it's not competitive.

And if the League is indeed "mediocre" due to parity (I agree about parity as evidenced by the number of teams that make the playoffs and compete for the SB each year), what does that make the Boys if they are one of a handful of teams who have not played in a SB let alone win a sole playoff game in 10 years, 12 years, 15 years? The timeframe doesn't even matter because the number stays the same - 1 playoff win.

If the team was rebuilding, that's one thing. But this team has been built (or so we've been told) to win now and has been since Romo became the team's starting QB. We're still waiting to see the team actually compete for SB - heck for an NFC title.

If people are happy to see the team "compete" in games and just be a fringe playoff team, well that's your perogative. For fans like Plan, Slam, me, and others, we want to see this team to legitimately contend, not just compete. Mediocrity should never be acceptable, especially for as long as the Boys have been. I don't want this organization to be associated with the Browns, Bills, etc. I want this team to earn the right to be known as America's Team.
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cowboyfanin2890


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. How many teams in the NFL have had a Hall of Fame tight end, DE/Linebacker and if he couldput a ring on his finger a QB. How many teams had a dynasty dismantled by their egotistical owner?

The problem with the Cowboys mediocrity is not a fickle fan base or a hatred of JJ, its the fact that greatness has been within our grasp many times and we have pissed it away by bad decisions from the coaches and owners. We have an owner who cannot manipulate the cap by hiring a real GM and going after the best coaches, see you know them people don't count against the cap. Our mediocrity is self inflicted not because of parity in the NFL.
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
We should be thankful we have been competitive.


Utterly ridiculous. If any fan base deserves better than "competitive," it's the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys have many away games where there are more cowboys fans than the home team. I've seen it with my own eyes on 2 occasions. It's ridiculous that a team that basically plays 10-12 home games a year can't do better than "competitive." The only other team that has a comparable fan base is the Steelers. And the steelers have truly been competitive every decade since the 70s. By competitive, I don't mean 8-8 or only 1 playoff victory over a 17 year span. I mean perennially making deep playoff runs.
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retrolock


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
We should be thankful we have been competitive.


Utterly ridiculous. If any fan base deserves better than "competitive," it's the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys have many away games where there are more cowboys fans than the home team. I've seen it with my own eyes on 2 occasions. It's ridiculous that a team that basically plays 10-12 home games a year can't do better than "competitive." The only other team that has a comparable fan base is the Steelers. And the steelers have truly been competitive every decade since the 70s. By competitive, I don't mean 8-8 or only 1 playoff victory over a 17 year span. I mean perennially making deep playoff runs.


Consistent deep playoff runs is not an easy thing to do in the NFL. One should always factor the competition in our division. For this decade only the Pats have done that, but look at their division, really if the Cowboys were in that division Romo and company would have at atleast a shot at SB. But our division opponents have improved, whereas we were saddled with finding an identity after the big three retired.

Teams go through this unwanted journey, we just have to endure it as fans. And thank football jesus we have FF. Learnt so much here thanks!
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
A team that has been 8-8 or worse in each of the last 4 years is not a competitive team. They might be in games, but that's just entertainment. To be competitive means winning those late December/early January games, getting into the playoffs, and winning at that point. If the team cannot even qualify for the playoffs, it's not competitive.

And if the League is indeed "mediocre" due to parity (I agree about parity as evidenced by the number of teams that make the playoffs and compete for the SB each year), what does that make the Boys if they are one of a handful of teams who have not played in a SB let alone win a sole playoff game in 10 years, 12 years, 15 years? The timeframe doesn't even matter because the number stays the same - 1 playoff win.

If the team was rebuilding, that's one thing. But this team has been built (or so we've been told) to win now and has been since Romo became the team's starting QB. We're still waiting to see the team actually compete for SB - heck for an NFC title.

If people are happy to see the team "compete" in games and just be a fringe playoff team, well that's your prerogative. For fans like Plan, Slam, me, and others, we want to see this team to legitimately contend, not just compete. Mediocrity should never be acceptable, especially for as long as the Boys have been. I don't want this organization to be associated with the Browns, Bills, etc. I want this team to earn the right to be known as America's Team.


THANK YOU!!!

I'll even take it one step further. If the league itself is utterly mediocre, then it would suggest that any team in any year can get to the playoffs and compete for a Super Bowl. Well, what does one playoff win in that time period mean based on that standard? That even at .500 since 1997, we're actually worse than mediocre because we can't even get to the playoffs - let alone win - to compete for a Super Bowl when other teams with losing records one year can compete for (and win) a Super Bowl the next. And yet, we're stuck at 8-8. So while our record purely defines "mediocre", our inability to do anything in a league built on helping mediocre teams improve, shows how poorly run we really are.
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retrolock


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
A team that has been 8-8 or worse in each of the last 4 years is not a competitive team. They might be in games, but that's just entertainment. To be competitive means winning those late December/early January games, getting into the playoffs, and winning at that point. If the team cannot even qualify for the playoffs, it's not competitive.

And if the League is indeed "mediocre" due to parity (I agree about parity as evidenced by the number of teams that make the playoffs and compete for the SB each year), what does that make the Boys if they are one of a handful of teams who have not played in a SB let alone win a sole playoff game in 10 years, 12 years, 15 years? The timeframe doesn't even matter because the number stays the same - 1 playoff win.

If the team was rebuilding, that's one thing. But this team has been built (or so we've been told) to win now and has been since Romo became the team's starting QB. We're still waiting to see the team actually compete for SB - heck for an NFC title.

If people are happy to see the team "compete" in games and just be a fringe playoff team, well that's your prerogative. For fans like Plan, Slam, me, and others, we want to see this team to legitimately contend, not just compete. Mediocrity should never be acceptable, especially for as long as the Boys have been. I don't want this organization to be associated with the Browns, Bills, etc. I want this team to earn the right to be known as America's Team.


THANK YOU!!!

I'll even take it one step further. If the league itself is utterly mediocre, then it would suggest that any team in any year can get to the playoffs and compete for a Super Bowl. Well, what does one playoff win in that time period mean based on that standard? That even at .500 since 1997, we're actually worse than mediocre because we can't even get to the playoffs - let alone win - to compete for a Super Bowl when other teams with losing records one year can compete for (and win) a Super Bowl the next. And yet, we're stuck at 8-8. So while our record purely defines "mediocre", our inability to do anything in a league built on helping mediocre teams improve, shows how poorly run we really are.


Then I don't know why people still root or identify with the Cowboys if some of them call this team mediocre or a joke. Plan, if someone talks about the Cowboys in a bar in a derogatory way will you still even defend your team? Or will you gladly agree with them even if sometimes maybe the arguments are over the top? I hope you'll defend the team even if it's against your will. Just take it out later in the forums lol.

Then again, it's better a Cowboy fan criticize the team rather than our division opponents. Atleast a true fan really knows what is ailing the team. In the end I'm confused lol will I be a DCRA advocate or something or be a defender to the bitter end Laughing
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

retrolock wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
A team that has been 8-8 or worse in each of the last 4 years is not a competitive team. They might be in games, but that's just entertainment. To be competitive means winning those late December/early January games, getting into the playoffs, and winning at that point. If the team cannot even qualify for the playoffs, it's not competitive.

And if the League is indeed "mediocre" due to parity (I agree about parity as evidenced by the number of teams that make the playoffs and compete for the SB each year), what does that make the Boys if they are one of a handful of teams who have not played in a SB let alone win a sole playoff game in 10 years, 12 years, 15 years? The timeframe doesn't even matter because the number stays the same - 1 playoff win.

If the team was rebuilding, that's one thing. But this team has been built (or so we've been told) to win now and has been since Romo became the team's starting QB. We're still waiting to see the team actually compete for SB - heck for an NFC title.

If people are happy to see the team "compete" in games and just be a fringe playoff team, well that's your prerogative. For fans like Plan, Slam, me, and others, we want to see this team to legitimately contend, not just compete. Mediocrity should never be acceptable, especially for as long as the Boys have been. I don't want this organization to be associated with the Browns, Bills, etc. I want this team to earn the right to be known as America's Team.


THANK YOU!!!

I'll even take it one step further. If the league itself is utterly mediocre, then it would suggest that any team in any year can get to the playoffs and compete for a Super Bowl. Well, what does one playoff win in that time period mean based on that standard? That even at .500 since 1997, we're actually worse than mediocre because we can't even get to the playoffs - let alone win - to compete for a Super Bowl when other teams with losing records one year can compete for (and win) a Super Bowl the next. And yet, we're stuck at 8-8. So while our record purely defines "mediocre", our inability to do anything in a league built on helping mediocre teams improve, shows how poorly run we really are.


Then I don't know why people still root or identify with the Cowboys if some of them call this team mediocre or a joke. Plan, if someone talks about the Cowboys in a bar in a derogatory way will you still even defend your team? Or will you gladly agree with them even if sometimes maybe the arguments are over the top? I hope you'll defend the team even if it's against your will. Just take it out later in the forums lol.

Then again, it's better a Cowboy fan criticize the team rather than our division opponents. Atleast a true fan really knows what is ailing the team. In the end I'm confused lol will I be a DCRA advocate or something or be a defender to the bitter end Laughing


Here's the forum's dirty little secret... While guys like Matts and Dirk annually predict the Cowboys win the NFC East and/or make a deep playoff run (and losing ridiculous sig bets in the process), the DCRA has been the voice of reason in the forum. It is basically a universal truth that we identify the real problems on the team long before the rest of the fan base and even the organization. The funny thing is that more often than not we got ridiculed for saying the OL needed a major rehaul, the DL was old, lacked depth and won't hold up, the QB chokes when the season is on the line, and the HC does not excel at any aspect of coaching. You can go back and look... We say these thing long before it is fully appreciated by the fan base. We've been talking about the OL for years. It took the organization until 2013 to appreciate how completely the OL sucked. We got mocked before last year when we were critical that the organization didn't address the DL. Jerry said the DL was a strength of the team. Most fans just ate it up. Now, everybody sees that the DL is a disaster. We've been saying JG is a bad HC for a couple of years. It wasn't until 2013 that the rest of the fan base caught up with the DCRA. We've been the ones advocating trench warfare for years. And, we identified the salary cap issues long before anyone else.

So when I talk to fans from other fan bases, I absolutely do not defend the cowboys at all costs. More often than not, it ends with me conceding that it's tough to be a cowboys fan these days. I fully enjoyed the 90s to the max. I just feel sorry for younger fans who never got to see how dominant the organization was.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheStarStillShines wrote:
A team that has been 8-8 or worse in each of the last 4 years is not a competitive team. They might be in games, but that's just entertainment. To be competitive means winning those late December/early January games, getting into the playoffs, and winning at that point. If the team cannot even qualify for the playoffs, it's not competitive.

And if the League is indeed "mediocre" due to parity (I agree about parity as evidenced by the number of teams that make the playoffs and compete for the SB each year), what does that make the Boys if they are one of a handful of teams who have not played in a SB let alone win a sole playoff game in 10 years, 12 years, 15 years? The timeframe doesn't even matter because the number stays the same - 1 playoff win.

If the team was rebuilding, that's one thing. But this team has been built (or so we've been told) to win now and has been since Romo became the team's starting QB. We're still waiting to see the team actually compete for SB - heck for an NFC title.

If people are happy to see the team "compete" in games and just be a fringe playoff team, well that's your perogative. For fans like Plan, Slam, me, and others, we want to see this team to legitimately contend, not just compete. Mediocrity should never be acceptable, especially for as long as the Boys have been. I don't want this organization to be associated with the Browns, Bills, etc. I want this team to earn the right to be known as America's Team.


Great post TSSS it sums up how I feel. We were sold a bill of goods. We were told that this team was built for deep playoff runs. We've had four straight seasons of 8-8 or worse. This was a team with a top end roster of upper echelon players that would enable us to be a playoff club or so we were told. The plan has not worked.

Ask yourselves this honestly. How many of you in recent seasons past predicted division championships and deep playoff runs for the Cowboys? I know the answer is many of you. And many of you who predicted great things for these Cowboys are now saying you are content with being competitive or with the recent standard of medicority? I don't get it.

I don't expect Lombardi trophies every year. But with a top end roster of "stars" and a payroll to match, I expect more than 8-8 to be the standard of acceptance. I grew up in the 70's when making playoff runs was the standard. Those teams were competitive. Of course I remember the 90's. Those teams were competiitive. This current version of the Cowboys is the very defintion of mediocrity. At the end of the day all that matters is if you win or lose. We tend to lose as many as we win. That is mediocrity, not competitive.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting back to the topic at hand, I found it very refreshing to read that Jerry said don't discount an offensive lineman being drafted high. Draft smokescreen? Perhaps. But with my glass half full I would like to think that Jerry is seeing the light re how important it is to fortify the trenches on an annual basis. Never can have enough quality lineman and line play on both sides of the ball. Good line play can cover up a number of sins.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

retrolock wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
TheStarStillShines wrote:
A team that has been 8-8 or worse in each of the last 4 years is not a competitive team. They might be in games, but that's just entertainment. To be competitive means winning those late December/early January games, getting into the playoffs, and winning at that point. If the team cannot even qualify for the playoffs, it's not competitive.

And if the League is indeed "mediocre" due to parity (I agree about parity as evidenced by the number of teams that make the playoffs and compete for the SB each year), what does that make the Boys if they are one of a handful of teams who have not played in a SB let alone win a sole playoff game in 10 years, 12 years, 15 years? The timeframe doesn't even matter because the number stays the same - 1 playoff win.

If the team was rebuilding, that's one thing. But this team has been built (or so we've been told) to win now and has been since Romo became the team's starting QB. We're still waiting to see the team actually compete for SB - heck for an NFC title.

If people are happy to see the team "compete" in games and just be a fringe playoff team, well that's your prerogative. For fans like Plan, Slam, me, and others, we want to see this team to legitimately contend, not just compete. Mediocrity should never be acceptable, especially for as long as the Boys have been. I don't want this organization to be associated with the Browns, Bills, etc. I want this team to earn the right to be known as America's Team.


THANK YOU!!!

I'll even take it one step further. If the league itself is utterly mediocre, then it would suggest that any team in any year can get to the playoffs and compete for a Super Bowl. Well, what does one playoff win in that time period mean based on that standard? That even at .500 since 1997, we're actually worse than mediocre because we can't even get to the playoffs - let alone win - to compete for a Super Bowl when other teams with losing records one year can compete for (and win) a Super Bowl the next. And yet, we're stuck at 8-8. So while our record purely defines "mediocre", our inability to do anything in a league built on helping mediocre teams improve, shows how poorly run we really are.


Then I don't know why people still root or identify with the Cowboys if some of them call this team mediocre or a joke. Plan, if someone talks about the Cowboys in a bar in a derogatory way will you still even defend your team? Or will you gladly agree with them even if sometimes maybe the arguments are over the top? I hope you'll defend the team even if it's against your will. Just take it out later in the forums lol.


It depends on the comment. There's nothing wrong with agreeing with someone who speaks the truth. That doesn't make anyone less of a fan. It just means you're being honest. Consider this: does anyone think that Cleveland fans deny how poorly their team has been run, or do they admit it, accept it, and root for them, anyway? I know a number of Browns fans, and they have very similar gripes as we do. Yet, I would never question their allegience to their team. Why? Because they wouldn't complain and expect better results if they weren't fans and didn't care. Their compassion and love for their team is what ultimately drives those complaints due to unmet levels of (very modest) expectation.
(And yes, I just compared our team to the Browns.)

Quote:
Then again, it's better a Cowboy fan criticize the team rather than our division opponents. Atleast a true fan really knows what is ailing the team. In the end I'm confused lol will I be a DCRA advocate or something or be a defender to the bitter end Laughing


You don't need to advocate anything other than the truth. Sometimes, the truth can sting and be a negative (i.e., Joan Rivers is the worst "GM" in the NFL and is a blithering idiot with respect to the draft and football acumen). Other times, the truth is a positive (i.e., Joan, not Parcells, was the one who picked DeMarcus Ware, and she should be praised for making a really great [albeit rare] decision). And other times, it's just a fact and a caveat to contribute to an existing conversation (i.e, Emmitt Smith, regardless of being a "diamond amongst trash", is the NFL's All Time leading rusher). That's what the DCRA is. We're about being intellectually honest. The problem is that the organization - time and time again - gives us less and less to be positive and optimistic about because its behavior undermines anything intelligent with respect to organizational behavior. We're just as irritated with that as we are with the mediocrity because it prevents us from being more positive. We no longer have faith in our executives, head coach, or "leaders" because they keep letting us down. Erstwhile, we're fed nothing but lip service and sunshine pumping without anything to back it up. And that really makes us angry, because it's not only a lie, but they're insulting our intelligence by thinking we're stupid enough to accept such nonsense at face value even though the results continually contradict their claims.
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Northland wrote:
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retrolock


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Thanks for answering slam and plan, much respect for being one those guys who "goes against the flow." That being said, most people really don't take to gloom and doom scenarios, most Cowboys fans are optimists (based here in FF), and always fall back in the rosy past and what-should-have-beens (Romo's FG blunder and Crayton's stone hands).

I for one don't have much confidence in Garrett, he became HC too soon imo. We shouldn't have hired Wade after Parcells departed, or he should have been canned after the 2008 season, after the Eagles walloped us.

The main gist of this topic is Jones finally seeing the light? Even after the bad decisions and stupid drafting, has he finally turned the corner? Disregard your distrust in Joan Rivers, but what does your gut tells you?

After this 2014 draft and Free Agency we may finally be getting answers if Jerry really is an old dog who can learn new tricks, or is just too demented to be trusted.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

retrolock wrote:
^Thanks for answering slam and plan, much respect for being one those guys who "goes against the flow." That being said, most people really don't take to gloom and doom scenarios, most Cowboys fans are optimists (based here in FF), and always fall back in the rosy past and what-should-have-beens (Romo's FG blunder and Crayton's stone hands).

I for one don't have much confidence in Garrett, he became HC too soon imo. We shouldn't have hired Wade after Parcells departed, or he should have been canned after the 2008 season, after the Eagles walloped us.

The main gist of this topic is Jones finally seeing the light? Even after the bad decisions and stupid drafting, has he finally turned the corner? Disregard your distrust in Joan Rivers, but what does your gut tells you?

After this 2014 draft and Free Agency we may finally be getting answers if Jerry really is an old dog who can learn new tricks, or is just too demented to be trusted.


My gut tells me that nothing will change because the underlying problem is Jerry himself and his refusal to bring in a real football guy to run the team. As long as Jerry keeps thinking that he's the best guy for the job and refuses to implement organizational accountability and real leadership, then nothing will ultimately change.
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Northland wrote:
If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.
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The_Slamman


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
retrolock wrote:
^Thanks for answering slam and plan, much respect for being one those guys who "goes against the flow." That being said, most people really don't take to gloom and doom scenarios, most Cowboys fans are optimists (based here in FF), and always fall back in the rosy past and what-should-have-beens (Romo's FG blunder and Crayton's stone hands).

I for one don't have much confidence in Garrett, he became HC too soon imo. We shouldn't have hired Wade after Parcells departed, or he should have been canned after the 2008 season, after the Eagles walloped us.

The main gist of this topic is Jones finally seeing the light? Even after the bad decisions and stupid drafting, has he finally turned the corner? Disregard your distrust in Joan Rivers, but what does your gut tells you?

After this 2014 draft and Free Agency we may finally be getting answers if Jerry really is an old dog who can learn new tricks, or is just too demented to be trusted.


My gut tells me that nothing will change because the underlying problem is Jerry himself and his refusal to bring in a real football guy to run the team. As long as Jerry keeps thinking that he's the best guy for the job and refuses to implement organizational accountability and real leadership, then nothing will ultimately change.


The problem is that Jerry is still living in 2007. In 2007, optimism about Tony Romo and a potent offense were real. In 2007, the defense was on the verge of being really good. In 2009, the defense shutout its opponents the last 2 games of the season and held the Eagles to 14 points in the playoffs. Then, in 2010, the window suddenly closed shut. But, because many of the players responsible for the rise remain, Jerry refuses to move on. He mortgaged the caps on those players instead of trading them while they still had value. For 3 straight years (soon to be 4), he fielded a team with a bunch of high priced players and sacrificed depth. As a result, we have a team that is stuck in perpetual limbo... good enough to beat bad teams. But bad enough to consistently lose to good teams. Never bad enough to draft truly the elite talent in the draft. Never good enough to get into the playoffs.
_________________
Northland wrote:
If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.


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