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Proof that Jerry is learning from Garrett, others....
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 38043
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:23 pm    Post subject: Proof that Jerry is learning from Garrett, others.... Reply with quote

Quote:
The question was about drafting solely defensive players considering how much help the Cowboys need on that side of the ball.

Weve got to be careful foregoing a really top offensive lineman, Jones said. Id head scratch about that, all things equal, same quality.
The follow-up question was specifically about defensive line help.

Its certainly where we were almost bankrupt last year in terms of what we had personnel wise, Jones said. As youve noted and Ive mentioned, I thought that was our strength going into the season. And by the way, I was up here talking to Monte Kiffin earlier and Monte was talking about how [Anthony] Spencer, how we were doing with [Jay] Ratliff not out there, but how well we were playing at Oxnard in that defensive front. That was without Tyrone Crawford, who got hurt the first day. Still we were creating some havoc out there and we, of course, really lost that. But that is certainly an area of need. Im not being evasive, but dont discount a good offensive lineman that is high on your board.




After ~22 years of never drafting an OL in the first, we might get our 3rd first round OL in 4 years.


Thats HUGE. A HUGE, HUGE swing in how JJ thinks.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas-cowboys
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also - I know my disdain for Wade and how he destroyed our potential to become great is well known. But just to hammer it home:

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2014/03/doing-it-wrong-way-whats-wrong-with.html

Quote:
Wade Phillips never rises above average if you take away either 1st round pick from 2008, and it shows as he has the worst overall drafting average (though I would actually contend that Campo was the worst drafter-- I shudder to think of what Campo might have come away with in the famously poor 2009 draft). This may speak to why Wade Phillips is a "great coordinator, poor head coach". Finally, Parcells shows both his genius and his stubbornness, with two extremely strong and two extremely weak drafts. I was shocked at how poorly 2006 turned out.

Jason Garrett can't really be graded on this scale, as he only has one draft that has been around for three years. It's a 76, with a very big boost from Tyron Smith and Demarco Murray's 2013 seasons.The rookie year for that draft class was a 19 AV, compared to an 18 for 2012 and a 20 for last year's class. That's a good sign, as classes that turned out above average on this list had an average of 14.4 AV their rookie year and none of them had fewer than 10. Conversely, only two classes in the below average list had a rookie AV higher than 9, and both of those were less than Garrett's worst draft so far.

If the two classes develop as much as 2011 did, the team could indeed be on an upward trend. But a quick look at the 2006 to 2010 numbers can confirm that there was, indeed, a gaping hole in draft productivity which was covered over by the stellar 2005 draft. Five suboptimal drafts in a row definitely leaves the team in a deep pit, talent wise. Food for thought: the team was clearly weakest at the offensive line post-Wade Phillips, agreed? Wade Phillips' 2009 starting offensive line only had two Cowboys' draft picks on it: Andre Gurode and Flozell Adams, picked by Dave Campo and Chan Gailey respectively. We all know what happened in 2010.

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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 38043
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The three restructured deals create $16.8 million in space, leaving the team less than $1 million from being under their $134.55 million cap. The Cowboys carried over $1.55 million in cap space from 2013.

The Cowboys do not plan to restructure the contracts of any more players unless they need to find space to add players in free agency. At the NFL scouting combine, executive vice president Stephen Jones said the Cowboys will be "efficient" spenders in free agency.

The team has yet to decide the futures of DeMarcus Ware and Miles Austin.

Ware is set to count $16.003 million against the cap, and the Cowboys would save $7.4 million by releasing him. It is possible they work out a new deal with Ware, which would also save money against the cap.

Austin is set to count $8.249 million against the cap, and the Cowboys can save $5.5 million by designating him a post-June 1 cut when the new league year starts next week.

The Cowboys attempted to get center Phil Costa to take a pay cut, but he refused. Despite reports, they have not yet decided to release Costa, but that move would save $1.5 million.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/10548712/dallas-cowboys-restructuring-contracts-tony-romo-sean-lee-salary-cap

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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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be WARE94


Joined: 22 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a drafting stand point I REALLY like our teams style the last 3 years or so....and by style I mean the TYPE of players we selected....not a huge fan of trading up/back in the first EVERY dang year
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be giving Jerry pats on the back so fast as he may have a Senior moment at any time. Glad that he is open to any possibilities going into the draft. Let the players fall to him rather than trying to outsmart everyone.
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Dallas94Ware


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yawn.

Jerry was part of the F.O. staff that drafted and assembled one of the best OLs in the history of football. He knows how important they can be. He can't help it if his scouts blew their grading of some guys.

Jerry doesn't scout. GMs and HCs study film based on what the scouts say. The scouts grade players and assemble study packages based on those grades.

Good scouts make good GMs. Good GMs hire good scouts. So it works together for sure, and both sides get some blame. But both equally deserve the fame for good picks, too. Jerry didn't just overnight decide he was going to bypass HC and scout suggestions and overrule everyone just cause he can. He was part of those Jimmy drafts just as much as he was the Parcells ones, the Campo ones, etc.

I am so tired and exhausted of people using him as a scapegoat. Many people are involved in good picks and bad picks alike. You can't pick and choose who gets the credit and who gets the blame, when the process works the same way for all 32 teams since the draft had 12+ rounds.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My point was that for 22 yeas as GM, he never chose to invest one single first rounder on a position set that compromises roughly 50% of your offense.

now that is clearly changed. Maybe because he learned that its extremely hard to create a great OL with castoffs, like he did in the 90s.
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Proof that Jerry is learning from Garrett, others.... Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Quote:
The question was about drafting solely defensive players considering how much help the Cowboys need on that side of the ball.

Weve got to be careful foregoing a really top offensive lineman, Jones said. Id head scratch about that, all things equal, same quality.
The follow-up question was specifically about defensive line help.

Its certainly where we were almost bankrupt last year in terms of what we had personnel wise, Jones said. As youve noted and Ive mentioned, I thought that was our strength going into the season. And by the way, I was up here talking to Monte Kiffin earlier and Monte was talking about how [Anthony] Spencer, how we were doing with [Jay] Ratliff not out there, but how well we were playing at Oxnard in that defensive front. That was without Tyrone Crawford, who got hurt the first day. Still we were creating some havoc out there and we, of course, really lost that. But that is certainly an area of need. Im not being evasive, but dont discount a good offensive lineman that is high on your board.




After ~22 years of never drafting an OL in the first, we might get our 3rd first round OL in 4 years.


Thats HUGE. A HUGE, HUGE swing in how JJ thinks.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas-cowboys


Agreed. That is a HUGE paradigm shift. As I've said for years:

Offensive line. Defensive line. Early. Often. Annually.
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If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Quote:
The three restructured deals create $16.8 million in space, leaving the team less than $1 million from being under their $134.55 million cap. The Cowboys carried over $1.55 million in cap space from 2013.

The Cowboys do not plan to restructure the contracts of any more players unless they need to find space to add players in free agency. At the NFL scouting combine, executive vice president Stephen Jones said the Cowboys will be "efficient" spenders in free agency.

The team has yet to decide the futures of DeMarcus Ware and Miles Austin.

Ware is set to count $16.003 million against the cap, and the Cowboys would save $7.4 million by releasing him. It is possible they work out a new deal with Ware, which would also save money against the cap.

Austin is set to count $8.249 million against the cap, and the Cowboys can save $5.5 million by designating him a post-June 1 cut when the new league year starts next week.

The Cowboys attempted to get center Phil Costa to take a pay cut, but he refused. Despite reports, they have not yet decided to release Costa, but that move would save $1.5 million.

http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/10548712/dallas-cowboys-restructuring-contracts-tony-romo-sean-lee-salary-cap


Here's how the discussion with Costa should've gone:

Executive: You're a below average starter and a marginal backup. If you want to stay here, you'll need to take a pay cut.

Costa: No.

Executive: GTFO.


Problem solved.
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Northland wrote:
If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.
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Dirk Gently


Joined: 04 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Also - I know my disdain for Wade and how he destroyed our potential to become great is well known. But just to hammer it home:

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2014/03/doing-it-wrong-way-whats-wrong-with.html



Thanks for the plug, Matts. Smile
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
Yawn.

Jerry was part of the F.O. staff that drafted and assembled one of the best OLs in the history of football. He knows how important they can be. He can't help it if his scouts blew their grading of some guys.

Jerry doesn't scout. GMs and HCs study film based on what the scouts say. The scouts grade players and assemble study packages based on those grades.

Good scouts make good GMs. Good GMs hire good scouts. So it works together for sure, and both sides get some blame. But both equally deserve the fame for good picks, too. Jerry didn't just overnight decide he was going to bypass HC and scout suggestions and overrule everyone just cause he can. He was part of those Jimmy drafts just as much as he was the Parcells ones, the Campo ones, etc.

I am so tired and exhausted of people using him as a scapegoat. Many people are involved in good picks and bad picks alike. You can't pick and choose who gets the credit and who gets the blame, when the process works the same way for all 32 teams since the draft had 12+ rounds.


You do know that Jimmy's contract gave him exclusive control of personnel, right? So while Jerry may have been sitting in the room playing with balloon animals with his circus clown friend Larry Lacewell, Jimmy assembled that offensive line. All Jerry did was sign checks.

The fact that you can't even recognize that after both Jimmy AND Jerry discussed who had control of the team back then is beyond human comprehension.
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Co-Founder: DCRA - No McQuistan, No Super Bowl
Northland wrote:
If mediocrity is your SuperBowl then Garrett is your Lombardi.
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Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4582
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
My point was that for 22 yeas as GM, he never chose to invest one single first rounder on a position set that compromises roughly 50% of your offense.

now that is clearly changed. Maybe because he learned that its extremely hard to create a great OL with castoffs, like he did in the 90s.


He never really had to.

He hit on guys like Allen and Gurode in the second round. Was able to get good FA's like Colombo and Davis. This team, for a long time under Jerry's ownership, was able to find good OL talent later in the draft and through second tier and even third tier FA's.
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Dirk Gently


Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 6177
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
Yawn.

Jerry was part of the F.O. staff that drafted and assembled one of the best OLs in the history of football. He knows how important they can be. He can't help it if his scouts blew their grading of some guys.

Jerry doesn't scout. GMs and HCs study film based on what the scouts say. The scouts grade players and assemble study packages based on those grades.

Good scouts make good GMs. Good GMs hire good scouts. So it works together for sure, and both sides get some blame. But both equally deserve the fame for good picks, too. Jerry didn't just overnight decide he was going to bypass HC and scout suggestions and overrule everyone just cause he can. He was part of those Jimmy drafts just as much as he was the Parcells ones, the Campo ones, etc.

I am so tired and exhausted of people using him as a scapegoat. Many people are involved in good picks and bad picks alike. You can't pick and choose who gets the credit and who gets the blame, when the process works the same way for all 32 teams since the draft had 12+ rounds.
I'd be very interested in what you think of my piece, D94.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 38043
Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
Also - I know my disdain for Wade and how he destroyed our potential to become great is well known. But just to hammer it home:

http://www.cowboysnation.com/2014/03/doing-it-wrong-way-whats-wrong-with.html



Thanks for the plug, Matts. Smile


Ha!

I had no clue you wrote that. I wondered why it sounded so much like my arguments.. At least you could have thrown me a little credit!

Laughing Wink

Solid article, I appreciated all the research that went into it.
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4582
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Yawn.

Jerry was part of the F.O. staff that drafted and assembled one of the best OLs in the history of football. He knows how important they can be. He can't help it if his scouts blew their grading of some guys.

Jerry doesn't scout. GMs and HCs study film based on what the scouts say. The scouts grade players and assemble study packages based on those grades.

Good scouts make good GMs. Good GMs hire good scouts. So it works together for sure, and both sides get some blame. But both equally deserve the fame for good picks, too. Jerry didn't just overnight decide he was going to bypass HC and scout suggestions and overrule everyone just cause he can. He was part of those Jimmy drafts just as much as he was the Parcells ones, the Campo ones, etc.

I am so tired and exhausted of people using him as a scapegoat. Many people are involved in good picks and bad picks alike. You can't pick and choose who gets the credit and who gets the blame, when the process works the same way for all 32 teams since the draft had 12+ rounds.


You do know that Jimmy's contract gave him exclusive control of personnel, right? So while Jerry may have been sitting in the room playing with balloon animals with his circus clown friend Larry Lacewell, Jimmy assembled that offensive line. All Jerry did was sign checks.

The fact that you can't even recognize that after both Jimmy AND Jerry discussed who had control of the team back then is beyond human comprehension.


He did not have sole control over personnel. It was the classic Parcells like situation - Jimmy wanted his groceries to cook his dinner, but input, trades and final say always goes through the front office - not just the coaching staff.

How you can pick and choose who to give credit to for good things and pick and choose who gets blame for bad things is beyond human comprehension.
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