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Workin to get under the CAP: Cowboys Cuts / Restructures
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigDallasFan wrote:
Dallas should sign for starting RG Uche Nwaneri. He's from Dallas. Come on, man! The Cowboys needs to make a strong push to sign this guy. Come on Jerry, you need sign this guy.


Why? The guy is way past his prime and has been dealing with nagging injuries the last two years.

Jacksonville is in need of lineman so for them to cut him says he's pretty much done, and it's not like Bernadeau was horrible last year.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Dirk Gently wrote:
A few things, scattershooting, so look to see if I address your concerns.

#1 -- Dallas can actually get away with doing nothing RE:Ware. The new cap situation makes it possible to simply wait and see what he's going to be without having to cut or redo his contract this year. That having been said, it makes all kinds of sense to do it now, coming off his worst season ever, when his value is low. Dallas absolutely has Ware over a barrell. Redo his contract to an annual average of 9-10m per year (including bonuses) and he reitres a cowboy and everyone is happy, especially our cap.

#2 -- Romo's contract, even with restructure, is absolutely not an obstacle. If they want to get rid of Romo for whatever reason, they can designate him June 1 and save $12m on 2015's cap *and* $2.6m on 2016's. Wiser, they could trade him, gaining some nice picks, and eat the cap hit of a whopping $2m, leaving us $3m *under* the projected 2015cap, with some big juicy contracts waiting to be cut. Oh... yeah. This also saves us $17m on 2016's cap.


We wouldn't save anything with Romo if we cut him because he'd count over $40 million in dead money due to the restructures, and that number will assuredly get worse when we restructure him next year. So you're mistaken there. His contract is going to be an utter disaster for us within the next 2 years.

Quote:
#3 -- all this to say the team is designed to be blown up next year if it doesn't go well. The only people it costs to cut are Romo, Lee, Scandrick, Frederick, and Bailey. I don't think anyone taking over the team would want to cut Frederick or Bailey. I'd be shocked if anyone cut Scandrick. Paying Lee $5m in 2015 and $3m in 2016 look like a bad deal to anyone? I'm thinking, again, most coaches would be happy to have him at those prices. Everyone that ends the season over 28yrs old, except Lee, can go easily.


Romo's deal prohibits truly blowing the team up because his dead money charge would be roughly 30% of the cap.

Quote:
Say what you will about the players that have been retained and the money that has been wasted on them, but the contracts have been managed brilliantly.


I couldn't disagree more. Mortgaging future salary caps in order to finance the current one is a really stupid way of doing business. It's the equivalent of living on credit cards which have 25% interest, and you're using those to pay for other existing credit cards as well as daily expenses. All it does it make the debt worse.
his dead money right now is 30% of next year's cap. His dead money next year is about 20%. Spread over two years it comes to less, of course, but his next year's salary is so high that we end up only a little put back.

Again, currently $5m+ under. Trading Romo next year brings us to about $3 under. Trading Ware and Witten and doing anything BUT paying Doug Free $8m immediately places that number around $30m. Cutting anyone but Lee, scandrick, Frederick, and Bailey saves more money.

Again, presumably we'll have locked up Dez and Tyron by then, and they will likely need to be restructured.

But those are all young players who can contribute to a team for years.


Dirk, the issue is that continually restructuring pushes more dead money onto a future cap. As I said, with a current $40+ million cap hit, even spread over 2 years, how in the world do you think that would be of any benefit to the team? We'd have to release basically every player under the sun just to get under the cap from his contract alone, and that doesn't include the other deals which have additional bonus monies due to other players. It's bad business.

Also, given the fact that Romo is 34 years old and coming off of a second back surgery in less than 12 months (albeit one of them being to remove a cyst), does anyone really think he'll be around until he's 39 years old? I certainly don't. And given that we're going to need to restructure him literally every year in order to pay for that year's cap, it continually pushes money back. Meaning, we'd either have to extend the length of the contract to flatten out that total (meaning, more time on the team when it's unwarranted) or a larger payment due at the end. Either way, it's a really stupid thing to do and will keep us in cap purgatory until that albatross deal is off the books. That's why I said he should never have been given that extension.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:


I couldn't disagree more. Mortgaging future salary caps in order to finance the current one is a really stupid way of doing business. It's the equivalent of living on credit cards which have 25% interest, and you're using those to pay for other existing credit cards as well as daily expenses. All it does it make the debt worse.


Cmon now - You know that is a very poor analogy


No, it really isn't. "Managing" the cap like that is the equivalent to living on credit cards because you're only delaying the inevitable and making it far more costly at the end.

If you don't like that analogy, then you can liken those moronic contracts to an adjustable rate mortgage with a balloon payment at the end which can't be refinanced in perpetuity. Eventually, the bill comes due.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:


I couldn't disagree more. Mortgaging future salary caps in order to finance the current one is a really stupid way of doing business. It's the equivalent of living on credit cards which have 25% interest, and you're using those to pay for other existing credit cards as well as daily expenses. All it does it make the debt worse.


Cmon now - You know that is a very poor analogy


No, it really isn't. "Managing" the cap like that is the equivalent to living on credit cards because you're only delaying the inevitable and making it far more costly at the end.

If you don't like that analogy, then you can liken those moronic contracts to an adjustable rate mortgage with a balloon payment at the end which can't be refinanced in perpetuity. Eventually, the bill comes due.


No you cant. We have gone through this and you know why its different. But I guess we will continue using extreme examples that done correlate.


ITs more liken to using a 0% 60 month payment plan on your new TV from best buy when you you work for the state and are guaranteed a raise every year.

Leveraging today's dollars against future dollars can (and often does) make good financial sense. Of course, there are risk, but then again many good financial choices have risk.
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But its not 0% its more like 15-20% interest on the cap every year. Yes, some other teams do the same approach with the cap, but its more the exception than the norm. Cowboys flag ship station used the same analogy as Plan saying the Cowboys are maxing out the Visa to pay off the American Express. That it will continue as long as Romo is a competitive QB giving the Cowboys a chance to make the playoffs.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
But its not 0% its more like 15-20% interest on the cap every year. Yes, some other teams do the same approach with the cap, but its more the exception than the norm. Cowboys flag ship station used the same analogy as Plan saying the Cowboys are maxing out the Visa to pay off the American Express. That it will continue as long as Romo is a competitive QB giving the Cowboys a chance to make the playoffs.


no, the interest rate is exactly 0% on money borrowed. And just because a. Sports joke said something wrong doesn't validated anything.

most people are pretty ignorant to these concepts. His opinion on $ holds as much weight as mine does on anatomy.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Dirk that this team can really easily be blown up next year. Romo's dead money is nuts, but I feel like they'd be able to bite it if truly necessary, a la Manning with the Colts.
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
buckwild wrote:
But its not 0% its more like 15-20% interest on the cap every year. Yes, some other teams do the same approach with the cap, but its more the exception than the norm. Cowboys flag ship station used the same analogy as Plan saying the Cowboys are maxing out the Visa to pay off the American Express. That it will continue as long as Romo is a competitive QB giving the Cowboys a chance to make the playoffs.


no, the interest rate is exactly 0% on money borrowed. And just because a. Sports joke said something wrong doesn't validated anything.

most people are pretty ignorant to these concepts. His opinion on $ holds as much weight as mine does on anatomy.


Romo's cap number next year will be 25 million, and I'm so glad that you have such a high opinion of yourself. Considering the "hack" is getting paid by someone for his opinions, and since you quote most of these "hacks" in your posts seems you would put more validity into what they say. Unless they disagree with your opinions/beliefs which turns them into "hacks"
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Desperado82


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
buckwild wrote:
But its not 0% its more like 15-20% interest on the cap every year. Yes, some other teams do the same approach with the cap, but its more the exception than the norm. Cowboys flag ship station used the same analogy as Plan saying the Cowboys are maxing out the Visa to pay off the American Express. That it will continue as long as Romo is a competitive QB giving the Cowboys a chance to make the playoffs.


no, the interest rate is exactly 0% on money borrowed. And just because a. Sports joke said something wrong doesn't validated anything.

most people are pretty ignorant to these concepts. His opinion on $ holds as much weight as mine does on anatomy.


Romo's cap number next year will be 25 million, and I'm so glad that you have such a high opinion of yourself. Considering the "hack" is getting paid by someone for his opinions, and since you quote most of these "hacks" in your posts seems you would put more validity into what they say. Unless they disagree with your opinions/beliefs which turns them into "hacks"


Just because he's getting paid to talk about something doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.

There's plenty media types who constantly report things that are erroneous.
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GeneralDissaray


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:


I couldn't disagree more. Mortgaging future salary caps in order to finance the current one is a really stupid way of doing business. It's the equivalent of living on credit cards which have 25% interest, and you're using those to pay for other existing credit cards as well as daily expenses. All it does it make the debt worse.


Cmon now - You know that is a very poor analogy


No, it really isn't. "Managing" the cap like that is the equivalent to living on credit cards because you're only delaying the inevitable and making it far more costly at the end.

If you don't like that analogy, then you can liken those moronic contracts to an adjustable rate mortgage with a balloon payment at the end which can't be refinanced in perpetuity. Eventually, the bill comes due.


The biggest evidence of our mismanagement of the cap is Miles Austin. We got a penalty, because we front loaded his contract in a non-capped year, which left the remaining years on his contract as all non-guaranteed base salaries. Easy to get rid of with no penalty. What do we do with this always injured WR, we restructure him in a desperate attempt to get under another year's cap, and convert non-guaranteed money into guaranteed, instead of just cutting or trading him. Now we have to designate him a June 1 cut. Stupid. We need to tow the hard line with Ware. Cut your salary in half or we will release you. No restructure.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buckwild wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
buckwild wrote:
But its not 0% its more like 15-20% interest on the cap every year. Yes, some other teams do the same approach with the cap, but its more the exception than the norm. Cowboys flag ship station used the same analogy as Plan saying the Cowboys are maxing out the Visa to pay off the American Express. That it will continue as long as Romo is a competitive QB giving the Cowboys a chance to make the playoffs.


no, the interest rate is exactly 0% on money borrowed. And just because a. Sports joke said something wrong doesn't validated anything.

most people are pretty ignorant to these concepts. His opinion on $ holds as much weight as mine does on anatomy.


Romo's cap number next year will be 25 million, and I'm so glad that you have such a high opinion of yourself. Considering the "hack" is getting paid by someone for his opinions, and since you quote most of these "hacks" in your posts seems you would put more validity into what they say. Unless they disagree with your opinions/beliefs which turns them into "hacks"


I never called them a hack. I typed "sports jock" but I was on my phone... so I guess i typo'd and auto-corrected me to "sports joke"... Still dont know where you got hack from.

But your point is still silly. I quote sports people on sports. Scientist on science. Doctors on health.

You know what I dont do? Ask an architect about anatomy. Or a lawyer about construction. Or a sports jock about complicated financial and accounting.

And yes, I am more qualified to speak about numbers then the Dallas radio show. And I get paid (probably on par with those guys) to give my opinions about money. Wink
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
buckwild wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
buckwild wrote:
But its not 0% its more like 15-20% interest on the cap every year. Yes, some other teams do the same approach with the cap, but its more the exception than the norm. Cowboys flag ship station used the same analogy as Plan saying the Cowboys are maxing out the Visa to pay off the American Express. That it will continue as long as Romo is a competitive QB giving the Cowboys a chance to make the playoffs.


no, the interest rate is exactly 0% on money borrowed. And just because a. Sports joke said something wrong doesn't validated anything.

most people are pretty ignorant to these concepts. His opinion on $ holds as much weight as mine does on anatomy.


Romo's cap number next year will be 25 million, and I'm so glad that you have such a high opinion of yourself. Considering the "hack" is getting paid by someone for his opinions, and since you quote most of these "hacks" in your posts seems you would put more validity into what they say. Unless they disagree with your opinions/beliefs which turns them into "hacks"


Just because he's getting paid to talk about something doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about.

There's plenty media types who constantly report things that are erroneous.


Like Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
The biggest evidence of our mismanagement of the cap is Miles Austin. We got a penalty, because we front loaded his contract in a non-capped year, which left the remaining years on his contract as all non-guaranteed base salaries. Easy to get rid of with no penalty. What do we do with this always injured WR, we restructure him in a desperate attempt to get under another year's cap, and convert non-guaranteed money into guaranteed, instead of just cutting or trading him. Now we have to designate him a June 1 cut. Stupid. We need to tow the hard line with Ware. Cut your salary in half or we will release you. No restructure.



We should have never gotten that penalty though.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GeneralDissaray wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:


I couldn't disagree more. Mortgaging future salary caps in order to finance the current one is a really stupid way of doing business. It's the equivalent of living on credit cards which have 25% interest, and you're using those to pay for other existing credit cards as well as daily expenses. All it does it make the debt worse.


Cmon now - You know that is a very poor analogy


No, it really isn't. "Managing" the cap like that is the equivalent to living on credit cards because you're only delaying the inevitable and making it far more costly at the end.

If you don't like that analogy, then you can liken those moronic contracts to an adjustable rate mortgage with a balloon payment at the end which can't be refinanced in perpetuity. Eventually, the bill comes due.


The biggest evidence of our mismanagement of the cap is Miles Austin. We got a penalty, because we front loaded his contract in a non-capped year, which left the remaining years on his contract as all non-guaranteed base salaries. Easy to get rid of with no penalty. What do we do with this always injured WR, we restructure him in a desperate attempt to get under another year's cap, and convert non-guaranteed money into guaranteed, instead of just cutting or trading him. Now we have to designate him a June 1 cut. Stupid. We need to tow the hard line with Ware. Cut your salary in half or we will release you. No restructure.


We do NOT ha to designate him a June 1. In fact, I think there's a good chance that we don't. If a ware deal gets done or if ware is real eased, I'll almost guarantee that we don't.

Back to plan's statements, it is simply not true that we will have to restructure romo every year. We will have restructures for the next couple of years, but they will be Tyron Smith and Dez Bryant.
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buckwild


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
buckwild wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
buckwild wrote:
But its not 0% its more like 15-20% interest on the cap every year. Yes, some other teams do the same approach with the cap, but its more the exception than the norm. Cowboys flag ship station used the same analogy as Plan saying the Cowboys are maxing out the Visa to pay off the American Express. That it will continue as long as Romo is a competitive QB giving the Cowboys a chance to make the playoffs.


no, the interest rate is exactly 0% on money borrowed. And just because a. Sports joke said something wrong doesn't validated anything.

most people are pretty ignorant to these concepts. His opinion on $ holds as much weight as mine does on anatomy.


Romo's cap number next year will be 25 million, and I'm so glad that you have such a high opinion of yourself. Considering the "hack" is getting paid by someone for his opinions, and since you quote most of these "hacks" in your posts seems you would put more validity into what they say. Unless they disagree with your opinions/beliefs which turns them into "hacks"


I never called them a hack. I typed "sports jock" but I was on my phone... so I guess i typo'd and auto-corrected me to "sports joke"... Still dont know where you got hack from.

But your point is still silly. I quote sports people on sports. Scientist on science. Doctors on health.

You know what I dont do? Ask an architect about anatomy. Or a lawyer about construction. Or a sports jock about complicated financial and accounting.

And yes, I am more qualified to speak about numbers then the Dallas radio show. And I get paid (probably on par with those guys) to give my opinions about money. Wink


You seem to like to debate as much as Plan and Slam which is why y'all have such heated banter back and forth. Realist vs. Optimist. So are you an CPA/Attorney/Banking? My point was that the sports jocks are paid to learn about the salary cap especially since they cover the Cowboys 350 days a year. I'm not saying that your wrong or right or that I'm wrong or right, but Cowboys have had issues with the cap for as long as I can remember. And after 3 years of 8-8 something has to change at Valley Ranch(cap,draft) if they want to make it over the hump, and back into the playoffs.
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