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Kyu


Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 241
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:25 pm    Post subject: BPA v. Need Reply with quote

Hello all.
I'm a long time reader and first time poster.

Making this thread to gauge the interest of drafting DEF in the first round.
Personally, I think that many have fallen in love with OBJ and other WR's of that ilk because we are so desperate for OFF playmakers.
I've seen a few mock drafts on this site where we pass up on great DEF talent to take, in my opinion, marginal WR talent.
An example being passing up on A. Barr for OBJ.
I know our draft will be affected by early FA, but I believe that we should draft BPA even if it means adding a DEF player in the first.

I'm curious as to if there are any DEF players who may be available at our pick that you'd select over a WR.
For me, if E. Ebron and M. Evans are gone, I wouldn't mind going A. Barr, D. Dennard, J. Gilbert, C. Pryor, or H. Clinton-Dix in no order.

As you can see by my signature, I understand OFF is a huge need.
However, WR and TE are both pretty deep and with extra third and forth round picks, we can go up and grab our guy at the end of the first or early in day two.

My favorite scenario would be E. Ebron in the first with Jor. Matthews in the second.
My second favorite would be M. Evans in the first and ASJ or J. Amaro in the second or a late first trade up.
But if E. Ebron and M. Evans are gone, which they probably will be, I wouldn't mind C. Pryor in the first and Jor. Matthews in the second or a late first trade up.

Just a random thought.
I don't like reaching and I believe that because so many teams needs WR's, second or third round talents are being given first round grades.
WR and TE are two of the deepest positions in the draft and I don't think it'd be wise to pass up on a great DEF pick for a good WR.

Time for the responses and ripping.

Cool
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skrILL


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off I think OBJ is a better player than Barr.

But I think you need to find a happy medium. It wouldn't make much sense for us to draft a top DT but it would be more acceptable in other situations.

Also need to be weary of not investing all your assets in one aspect of the team; don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Fortunately for us, I think BPA and need overlap at #18 and we'll be able to come away with fair value at a position that needs improvement.
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Kyu


Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 241
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skrILL wrote:
First off I think OBJ is a better player than Barr.

But I think you need to find a happy medium. It wouldn't make much sense for us to draft a top DT but it would be more acceptable in other situations.

Also need to be weary of not investing all your assets in one aspect of the team; don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Fortunately for us, I think BPA and need overlap at #18 and we'll be able to come away with fair value at a position that needs improvement.


You're correct, there are clearly positions to try and avoid, one of which being DL.
I guess I am undervaluing OBJ and I'm curious where you'd rank him in terms of WR's.
Would you take him before E. Ebron?
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skrILL


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyu wrote:
skrILL wrote:
First off I think OBJ is a better player than Barr.

But I think you need to find a happy medium. It wouldn't make much sense for us to draft a top DT but it would be more acceptable in other situations.

Also need to be weary of not investing all your assets in one aspect of the team; don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Fortunately for us, I think BPA and need overlap at #18 and we'll be able to come away with fair value at a position that needs improvement.


You're correct, there are clearly positions to try and avoid, one of which being DL.
I guess I am undervaluing OBJ and I'm curious where you'd rank him in terms of WR's.
Would you take him before E. Ebron?

I have him and Cooks as my 3a and 3b behind Watkins and Evans. I would probably still take Ebron before him though.
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Kyu


Joined: 26 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skrILL wrote:
Kyu wrote:
skrILL wrote:
First off I think OBJ is a better player than Barr.

But I think you need to find a happy medium. It wouldn't make much sense for us to draft a top DT but it would be more acceptable in other situations.

Also need to be weary of not investing all your assets in one aspect of the team; don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Fortunately for us, I think BPA and need overlap at #18 and we'll be able to come away with fair value at a position that needs improvement.


You're correct, there are clearly positions to try and avoid, one of which being DL.
I guess I am undervaluing OBJ and I'm curious where you'd rank him in terms of WR's.
Would you take him before E. Ebron?

I have him and Cooks as my 3a and 3b behind Watkins and Evans. I would probably still take Ebron before him though.

I see.
But don't you think B. Cook's skill set overlaps with J. Kerley's?
I've read that he's more of a slot WR, do you think he can play outside?
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skrILL


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyu wrote:
skrILL wrote:
Kyu wrote:
skrILL wrote:
First off I think OBJ is a better player than Barr.

But I think you need to find a happy medium. It wouldn't make much sense for us to draft a top DT but it would be more acceptable in other situations.

Also need to be weary of not investing all your assets in one aspect of the team; don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Fortunately for us, I think BPA and need overlap at #18 and we'll be able to come away with fair value at a position that needs improvement.


You're correct, there are clearly positions to try and avoid, one of which being DL.
I guess I am undervaluing OBJ and I'm curious where you'd rank him in terms of WR's.
Would you take him before E. Ebron?

I have him and Cooks as my 3a and 3b behind Watkins and Evans. I would probably still take Ebron before him though.

I see.
But don't you think B. Cook's skill set overlaps with J. Kerley's?
I've read that he's more of a slot WR, do you think he can play outside?

I think you have to scheme your system around your personnel. Utilize more formations that allow for two slot receivers. Belichick is a master of this.
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Kyu


Joined: 26 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skrILL wrote:
Kyu wrote:
skrILL wrote:
Kyu wrote:
skrILL wrote:
First off I think OBJ is a better player than Barr.

But I think you need to find a happy medium. It wouldn't make much sense for us to draft a top DT but it would be more acceptable in other situations.

Also need to be weary of not investing all your assets in one aspect of the team; don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Fortunately for us, I think BPA and need overlap at #18 and we'll be able to come away with fair value at a position that needs improvement.


You're correct, there are clearly positions to try and avoid, one of which being DL.
I guess I am undervaluing OBJ and I'm curious where you'd rank him in terms of WR's.
Would you take him before E. Ebron?

I have him and Cooks as my 3a and 3b behind Watkins and Evans. I would probably still take Ebron before him though.

I see.
But don't you think B. Cook's skill set overlaps with J. Kerley's?
I've read that he's more of a slot WR, do you think he can play outside?

I think you have to scheme your system around your personnel. Utilize more formations that allow for two slot receivers. Belichick is a master of this.

I agree that scheme is important, but to have a slot, someone has to be on the outside.
With two slots, you'd have 4 WR sets, and I don't think we have a single WR currently that'd be well utilized on the outside.
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Bobby816


Joined: 21 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idzik has only been the GM here for 1 offseason and had his hands tied back with our bad cap situation. He drafted BPA last draft and it looks like that strategy worked. I think we have to trust Idzik in that he knows what he's doing. He has already said he knows he needs weapons for Geno, so I believe he addresses that. I think he also knows that there is no game changing FA available to sign on the offensive side. I don't think he reaches and gives a bad contract to a # 2 WR. Honestly I see him exploring trade options to bring in a real good WR, if nothing comes of that, let the draft come to us. There are 4 WRs I wouldn't mind and 1 TE I would t mind at 18. I highly doubt Watkins, Evans, Ebron, Matthews and OBJ will all be gone by our pick. So they hit needs and BPA.
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Kyu


Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 241
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
Idzik has only been the GM here for 1 offseason and had his hands tied back with our bad cap situation. He drafted BPA last draft and it looks like that strategy worked. I think we have to trust Idzik in that he knows what he's doing. He has already said he knows he needs weapons for Geno, so I believe he addresses that. I think he also knows that there is no game changing FA available to sign on the offensive side. I don't think he reaches and gives a bad contract to a # 2 WR. Honestly I see him exploring trade options to bring in a real good WR, if nothing comes of that, let the draft come to us. There are 4 WRs I wouldn't mind and 1 TE I would t mind at 18. I highly doubt Watkins, Evans, Ebron, Matthews and OBJ will all be gone by our pick. So they hit needs and BPA.

There's no doubt that Idzik has more tools at his disposal with our improved cap situation from last year.
I agree with you and truly hope that he doesn't overspend just because he can.
Very few offseasons that put a heavy focus on FA work out, even with stars ie the Eagles.
I doubt S. Watkins or M. Evans are there at 18, but I hope E. Ebron is there.
I love Jor. Matthews and am coming around on OBJ, but I feel there are many players who could end up with a better grade than them and will be available.
I was just saying that I wouldn't disapprove of a DEF player at 18 if the board fell a certain way.
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Mr.O


Joined: 11 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BPA by far imo. When I say BPA I dont mean takeing a player that we already have a good to cornerstone type player starting but if say the best player on our board would fit our 3rd need (S/OLB) then im all for taking him.Free agency is the period where needs should be addressed.
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footballboss24


Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 989
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.O wrote:
BPA by far imo. When I say BPA I dont mean takeing a player that we already have a good to cornerstone type player starting but if say the best player on our board would fit our 3rd need (S/OLB) then im all for taking him.Free agency is the period where needs should be addressed.


if somehow mack barr clowney were there then go right ahead, gilbert and dennard would have to get some consideration along with pyror and haha

I would like the best weapon available which doesnt exactly answer the question haha
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green24


Joined: 10 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footballboss24 wrote:
Mr.O wrote:
BPA by far imo. When I say BPA I dont mean takeing a player that we already have a good to cornerstone type player starting but if say the best player on our board would fit our 3rd need (S/OLB) then im all for taking him.Free agency is the period where needs should be addressed.


if somehow mack barr clowney were there then go right ahead, gilbert and dennard would have to get some consideration along with pyror and haha

I would like the best weapon available which doesnt exactly answer the question haha

Agreed on Clowney and Mack, not really the others. I think Barr's stock is dropping to the mid-late first range. I don't think drafting another first round CB would be a wise move for us. I don't see either safety as can't miss or anything more than just decent or acceptable value at 18.
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Mr.O


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green24 wrote:
footballboss24 wrote:
Mr.O wrote:
BPA by far imo. When I say BPA I dont mean takeing a player that we already have a good to cornerstone type player starting but if say the best player on our board would fit our 3rd need (S/OLB) then im all for taking him.Free agency is the period where needs should be addressed.


if somehow mack barr clowney were there then go right ahead, gilbert and dennard would have to get some consideration along with pyror and haha

I would like the best weapon available which doesnt exactly answer the question haha

Agreed on Clowney and Mack, not really the others. I think Barr's stock is dropping to the mid-late first range. I don't think drafting another first round CB would be a wise move for us. I don't see either safety as can't miss or anything more than just decent or acceptable value at 18.


I think Gilbert would still be a good pick, I'd Take Barr at 18
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Kyu


Joined: 26 Feb 2014
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Watkins, Ebron, and Evans are off the board, I'd go with Barr, Clinton-Dix, Pryor, Dennard, or Gilbert, in no particular order.
I just think the WR pool is very deep this year and if we find one in FA, we won't be in a "all-in" type situation for the draft.
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Hansen31


Joined: 12 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyu wrote:
If Watkins, Ebron, and Evans are off the board, I'd go with Barr, Clinton-Dix, Pryor, Dennard, or Gilbert, in no particular order.
I just think the WR pool is very deep this year and if we find one in FA, we won't be in a "all-in" type situation for the draft.


I one hundred percent agree with this. Sammy and Ebron are really the only two receiving options i would want in round one at 18. I would love to get a Barr, Mack, Dennard there. I see MAck going top 5..top 10 atleast and i see top 15 for Barr..so.. Where do you guys think Pryor from Louisville would go, what do you think of him as a Safety?
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