Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

A Patriots Fit
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New England Patriots
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jerb2011


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1226
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:44 am    Post subject: A Patriots Fit Reply with quote

I've always been a Patriots fan, but I am really starting to understand schemes and systems for NFL teams. What do you look for as a Patriots fan in prospects to determine how well they would fit in the system as far as:

- WR (I've seen Kelvin Benjamin, Jeremy Maclin, as NE fits)
- TE (I've seen almost every top teir TE as NE fits)
- DE (I've seen Ra'Shede Hageman, Brent Urban, Jared Allen, Red Bryant as good NE fits)
- DT/NT (I've seen Ra'Shede Hageman, Louis Nix, Red Bryant as good NE fits)

Who are some other draft prospects/ FAs that fit NE's schemes and why? I really want to understand what coaches, GMs, and scouts look for in prospects as far as the Patriots are concerned Embarassed
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Naq


Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 8518
Location: Westeros
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: A Patriots Fit Reply with quote

jerb2011 wrote:
- TE (I've seen almost every top teir TE as NE fits)


Embarassed No just no.
_________________


UniversalAuthor wrote:
Hate being up by 13, sets us up for a 1 point loss.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jerb2011


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1226
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: A Patriots Fit Reply with quote

Naq wrote:
jerb2011 wrote:
- TE (I've seen almost every top teir TE as NE fits)


Embarassed No just no.
That's exactly the point I was trying to make haha
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bluemushrooms


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 973
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well as a fan I look at mainly at personality...which may not be a good way to do it Laughing

For example, we pick up a guy like Develin because he's going to put his team first and work hard. While Develin certainly has his limitations, he's going to put the team first and work his butt off so the chances of him meeting expectations is high. Some more examples are Edelman, Brady, Collie, etc.; personality will help a player reach their maximum potential.

No matter how bad the expectations are, players like Develin are bargains because they will have consistent (expected) results and their pricetag matches the expectation. AKA Efficient spending due to low risk. Personality is criminally underrated...
_________________


2014 Adopt a Patriot: Brandon LaFell
Catches: 57
Yards: 753
Touchdowns: 7
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patsfan25


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 5710
Location: CenCal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Work ethic, versatility, intelligence are the three focal points.
_________________

Logan Ryan
Tackles:13 Forced Fumbles:1
PDs:3 INTs:1 Pick 6s:


Deadpulse Ink.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25698
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluemushrooms wrote:
Well as a fan I look at mainly at personality...which may not be a good way to do it Laughing

For example, we pick up a guy like Develin because he's going to put his team first and work hard. While Develin certainly has his limitations, he's going to put the team first and work his butt off so the chances of him meeting expectations is high. Some more examples are Edelman, Brady, Collie, etc.; personality will help a player reach their maximum potential.

No matter how bad the expectations are, players like Develin are bargains because they will have consistent (expected) results and their pricetag matches the expectation. AKA Efficient spending due to low risk. Personality is criminally underrated...


If the price tag matches the expectation, it's not a bargain. Develin is a fringe NFL player who provides little value and gets paid accordingly with a minimum or near minimum salary.

A guy like Dennard is a bargain because he's earning far less than what a solid #2 CB is worth on the open market. Such is the value of draft picks.

Bottom of the roster guys are often labeled 'effort guys' or 'hard workers' which is a bit misguided IMO.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bluemushrooms


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
Posts: 973
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
bluemushrooms wrote:
Well as a fan I look at mainly at personality...which may not be a good way to do it Laughing

For example, we pick up a guy like Develin because he's going to put his team first and work hard. While Develin certainly has his limitations, he's going to put the team first and work his butt off so the chances of him meeting expectations is high. Some more examples are Edelman, Brady, Collie, etc.; personality will help a player reach their maximum potential.

No matter how bad the expectations are, players like Develin are bargains because they will have consistent (expected) results and their pricetag matches the expectation. AKA Efficient spending due to low risk. Personality is criminally underrated...


If the price tag matches the expectation, it's not a bargain. Develin is a fringe NFL player who provides little value and gets paid accordingly with a minimum or near minimum salary.

A guy like Dennard is a bargain because he's earning far less than what a solid #2 CB is worth on the open market. Such is the value of draft picks.

Bottom of the roster guys are often labeled 'effort guys' or 'hard workers' which is a bit misguided IMO.


Given variability in performance vs. expectations, having someone consistently meet the expectations set for them is a bargain. Having players that consistently meet their expectations, however low the expectations are, are incredibly important because it's something you can rely on and build around. Performance variability creates more issues than someone performing at a mediocre level consistently.
Not all effort guys or hard workers are good...I'm was just saying that that kind of personality allows players to reach their maximum potential and thus become a bargain. They also tend to have consistent performance so you know for a fact what will be a weakness, strength, etc. and can address those issues.
_________________


2014 Adopt a Patriot: Brandon LaFell
Catches: 57
Yards: 753
Touchdowns: 7
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PoWww


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 1632
Location: Were onto New York
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some things I've noticed since I've started following the draft intensely,

-We tend to double dip at a certain position. Some examples: Wilhite and Wheatley, Gronk/Hernandez, Vereen/Ridley, Boyce/Dobson, etc.

-If you're a late round pick, you're typically expected to be able to play special teams. Sometimes late round picks are used for ST's(Slater, Ebner, etc.)

-Likes team captains/leaders.

-Drafts players from college coaches he trusts and has ties to. Hopefully no more Urban Meyer though.

-Not afraid to take talented players who have fallen for other reasons(injury, off-the field, etc.). Gronk, Hernandez, Dennard are some examples.
_________________

^Deadpulse
TomRalph wrote:
Looking forward to a Top 10 pick this year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25698
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluemushrooms wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
bluemushrooms wrote:
Well as a fan I look at mainly at personality...which may not be a good way to do it Laughing

For example, we pick up a guy like Develin because he's going to put his team first and work hard. While Develin certainly has his limitations, he's going to put the team first and work his butt off so the chances of him meeting expectations is high. Some more examples are Edelman, Brady, Collie, etc.; personality will help a player reach their maximum potential.

No matter how bad the expectations are, players like Develin are bargains because they will have consistent (expected) results and their pricetag matches the expectation. AKA Efficient spending due to low risk. Personality is criminally underrated...


If the price tag matches the expectation, it's not a bargain. Develin is a fringe NFL player who provides little value and gets paid accordingly with a minimum or near minimum salary.

A guy like Dennard is a bargain because he's earning far less than what a solid #2 CB is worth on the open market. Such is the value of draft picks.

Bottom of the roster guys are often labeled 'effort guys' or 'hard workers' which is a bit misguided IMO.


Given variability in performance vs. expectations, having someone consistently meet the expectations set for them is a bargain. Having players that consistently meet their expectations, however low the expectations are, are incredibly important because it's something you can rely on and build around. Performance variability creates more issues than someone performing at a mediocre level consistently.


Meeting expectations isn't a bargain though. A bargain, by definition, is a guy who gives you more than you are paying him for. Julian Edelman this year was a bargain. Next year, on a much costlier salary, he will not be a bargain. Guys on the bottom of the roster are only "bargains" if they're out-performing their (relatively) meager salaries. Otherwise, they're just interchangeable parts with no real defining value other than familiarity with the system.

Quote:

Not all effort guys or hard workers are good...I'm was just saying that that kind of personality allows players to reach their maximum potential and thus become a bargain. They also tend to have consistent performance so you know for a fact what will be a weakness, strength, etc. and can address those issues.


I'd say the vast majority of NFL players are "effort guys" and "hard workers." Otherwise, they would be unemployed pretty quickly. The desire, work ethic and coachability of players is not weighted towards the bottom of the roster. The traits you are describing as a "bargain" should be found in just about every player on the roster. Getting bare minimum NFL production for a minimum salary guy (which guys like Develin and Kline gave them) isn't a special value. There are literally dozens of those guys, perhaps hundreds, every year who fill out those roster spots and wash out of the league in 2 years or less.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25698
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PoWww wrote:
Some things I've noticed since I've started following the draft intensely,

-If you're a late round pick, you're typically expected to be able to play special teams. Sometimes late round picks are used for ST's(Slater, Ebner, etc.)


This is true of every team. Late round picks (other than big fat guys and QB's) who can't play ST don't survive in the league for long. I'd actually say that, relatively speaking, the Pats use their late rounders and undrafted guys on special teams much less than average other than the Slater/Ebner guys who are drafted solely for ST. The Pats tend to take fewer late round ST possibilities because many of their late rounders are developmental linemen and TE's. They've had very few non-ST exclusive players who are drafted late (4th round onwards) who have been solid special teamers. I really can't think of many other than Antwan Harris and Patrick Pass.

Quote:

-Likes team captains/leaders.


This is the most overblown aspect of the draft (not by you, by the media). Most drafted prospects by every team are team captains and leaders. Each college team has 90 guys on it and most teams have maybe 2-3 of those guys to go on to make a training camp roster (some schools obviously have more, many teams have less). The guys who do make rosters tend to be the best colllege players and the best players tend to be captains. Guys like Reiss and other reporters always talk about team captains like the Pats haul in more of them than other teams or specifically seek out captains. But that's not really the case. Sure, the Pats probably do value leadership (I would guess every NFL team values that in a prospect) but the number of college captains the Pats end up with isn't all that much different than most teams and is much more a function of who college captains are (usually the most draftable guys) than some special criteria Belichick has.

Quote:

-Not afraid to take talented players who have fallen for other reasons(injury, off-the field, etc.). Gronk, Hernandez, Dennard are some examples.


A matter of semantics, but I don't think this is a specific draft strategy. Belichick craves value in everything he does with the roster building process. Drafting "damaged" prospects, trading down to add more picks, holding firm on free agents, signing bargain bin veterans, using the practice squad/last few roster spots heavily, it's all the same core principle really.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jerb2011


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1226
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you look for in a WR? Like, why is Kelvin Benjamin considered a good fit for New England?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
tbperk


Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 297
Location: Seacoast of New Hampshire
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jerb2011 wrote:
What do you look for in a WR? Like, why is Kelvin Benjamin considered a good fit for New England?


What they have looked for in the past are fast 3 cone performances, players with punt/KO experience, 5'9" - 6" tall around 200 lbs. They've had mixed results at best.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 25698
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jerb2011 wrote:
What do you look for in a WR? Like, why is Kelvin Benjamin considered a good fit for New England?


Who says he's a good fit?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 8649
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jerb2011 wrote:
What do you look for in a WR? Like, why is Kelvin Benjamin considered a good fit for New England?


I'd have said the opposite on Benjamin.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jerb2011


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 1226
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
jerb2011 wrote:
What do you look for in a WR? Like, why is Kelvin Benjamin considered a good fit for New England?


Who says he's a good fit?
I've seen it on NFL Network from Mike Mayock and other websites
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New England Patriots All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group