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Would you welcome Martin to the NYG?
Yes, a young talented OL would be huge for us
14%
 14%  [ 1 ]
No, we are better off finding help elsewhere
85%
 85%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 7

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GMENNATION


Joined: 09 Feb 2012
Posts: 162
Location: Greater New York Area
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:31 pm    Post subject: Jonathan Martin?? Reply with quote

An interesting FA to be is Jonathan Martin. A highly rated prospect coming out, he was having a pretty decent year before "quitting the team". Now I believe that is a huge character flaw to not be able to take some hazing but we do have a solid locker room. I don't think we'd run into any issues bringing him in and we can potentially even get him for cheap.

Would allow us to slide Pugh inside or eventually replace Beatty if he continues to slide. But is he just too much of a risk to bring on?
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bagh


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
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Location: Toronto, Ontario (That's Canada folks )
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am of the opinion he would do more harm then good.

I have heard it said that he would suffer from the "Tim Tebow" effect where he would be a big distraction. It is an analysis that I agree with. Very few players can overcome the media scrutiny that comes with playing in a big market. Tebow faltered, Pacman faltered in Dallas, but was serviceable in Cinci.

The only other player who has had this much scrutiny for a non-football issue was Te'o and he was only successful cause he played in San Diego and the Chargers pretty much had him under media lockdown and didn't make him available much if at all. We won't be able to do that in New York.

On top of that, Martin is said to suffer from Mental Health issues which can be compounded with all the intensity such scrutiny provides. Before someone says that I am being discriminatory of people with mental health issues, I want to say that my opinion is based on work that I do with youth who suffer from Mood Disorders.
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Rase


Joined: 23 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As much as I loved him coming out of Stanford I say "No"... Right now he's a broken man. The only good teams for him right now are the 49ers (Coach from Stanford) and Colts (Luck). He will be able to build back his confidence. I don't see that happening if he gets traded to the Giants
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dkebones


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bagh wrote:
I am of the opinion he would do more harm then good.

I have heard it said that he would suffer from the "Tim Tebow" effect where he would be a big distraction. It is an analysis that I agree with. Very few players can overcome the media scrutiny that comes with playing in a big market. Tebow faltered, Pacman faltered in Dallas, but was serviceable in Cinci.

The only other player who has had this much scrutiny for a non-football issue was Te'o and he was only successful cause he played in San Diego and the Chargers pretty much had him under media lockdown and didn't make him available much if at all. We won't be able to do that in New York.

On top of that, Martin is said to suffer from Mental Health issues which can be compounded with all the intensity such scrutiny provides. Before someone says that I am being discriminatory of people with mental health issues, I want to say that my opinion is based on work that I do with youth who suffer from Mood Disorders.


First, what was the "Tebow falter?"

Second, have you read what the kid had to go through in that locker room? If not, I would urge you to check out the report (or at least a synopsis of it reported in all its unfiltered "glory" at SBNation). Take about a 3 minute read of it. I consider myself a pretty hard-nosed, grounded person... that's not a situation I could even BEGIN to comprehend trying to manage through.

Regardless of his skill on the field (which you make no mention or allusion to), because the kid is a "pushover" (his word from his texts), you wouldn't take the opportunity to put him in a supportive environment and see what he does?
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minutemancl


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was he even that good in Miami? I'd rather put that money towards a bonafide OL.
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bballbkd1001


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked him out of college... from everything I've read, he would have been a better guard I believe
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be fine kicking the tires on him but I want him below league average for a guard. Because I'm cheap. Razz
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bagh


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkebones wrote:


First, what was the "Tebow falter?"

Second, have you read what the kid had to go through in that locker room? If not, I would urge you to check out the report (or at least a synopsis of it reported in all its unfiltered "glory" at SBNation). Take about a 3 minute read of it. I consider myself a pretty hard-nosed, grounded person... that's not a situation I could even BEGIN to comprehend trying to manage through.

Regardless of his skill on the field (which you make no mention or allusion to), because the kid is a "pushover" (his word from his texts), you wouldn't take the opportunity to put him in a supportive environment and see what he does?


First of all I did read the report, so tone down moral outrage and superiority.

Second of all, as you read the report, you would have noticed even the lawyers had a hard time distinguishing the impact of the treatment from some of the mental health issues he was already dealing with.

You need to take a step back and analyze the situation for a minute. The guy was all right at Stanford because school's have a better capacity to handle mental health issues than most workplaces. I know you are going to say that the NFL has access to such services, but the issue is that the supportive environment you mention is only afforded to those guys the teams think have exceptional talents (i.e. Dez Bryant). It's not based on need of the player it's based on the need of the organization. On top of the media scrutiny attached to his name, how many teams think he will be worth the "headache" of setting up the constant supervision he requires?

With regards to your comment about talent, your focused on whether or not he would be a good fit for our o-line. I am focused on whether or not New York would be good for him. The whole Miami thing caused him to be triggered frequently. He isn't going to be able to forget that, and no one else will let him forget it. The fact remains, when he gets back, his every move will be analyzed. If he is in New York, it will be even more so. My question is whether or not playing in New York would trigger him more freuently.

You seem to think I am denying the severity of the conduct of the Dolphin Players. I am not. To be quite frank, from all the texts between his parents and him, it showed that the guy's coping mechanisms aren't there. He was getting contradictory messages from his support system. His mom was telling him to get help and his dad was telling him to basically man up. He was not willing to do either until he basically snapped.

The dude can verbalize what he is feeling but can't take the next step in turning it into action and shuts down. He needs to take some time to right himself before he jumps into the NFL Pressure Cooker.
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Gmen4ev


Joined: 07 Sep 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your definition of talented is far different than mine.

I guess in a sense that he is talented on a certain level. But not NFL starting level in my opinion.
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Dolphins cut him, I would be fine with giving him the minimum. I wouldn't give a pick for him though.

We have no idea where his mindset is right now. Even if the Dolphins lockeroom was equivalent of Rikers Island, that takes a toll on a person.

At worse he could be much needed depth and at best could compete for a starting spot.

And stop discussing moving Pugh to guard. It makes ZERO sense
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mlv


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would rather have Mosley/Herman/draftee compete than bringing in Martin. Martin isn't any good. I don't care that he's young. Their line played better once he left the team.

And yea I'm done with moving Pugh to guard stuff. He was very good at RT last year. Good guards are easier to find than good tackles.

Ideally, I'd like for Mosley to win one of the guard spots next year, maybe sign Dietrich-Smith from GB (or draft a center), and sign another guard in free agency. Beatty-(Asamoah?)-EDS/Rookie-Mosley-Pugh looks good to me.
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Kodaraw


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing that bothers me is he QUIT... Regardless of the situation, he didn't tell the coaches (at least to my knowledge... correct me if I am wrong). He took the abuse for as long as possible before quitting... Quitting bothers me, but at the same time I can understand.

And he will bring a lot of media scrutiny. New york is not Miami. He will gather a lot of media and i'm not sure if he can handle that. However, he is a young kid who could make a good guard. And we don't have a bully locker room. What happened to Prince is far different than what happened to Martin.

I guess what I am trying to say is I feel like we would almost have to start him... We couldn't bring him in to compete because if we didn't start him it opens doors for discrimination and backlash.
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GmenSeattle


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kodaraw wrote:
The thing that bothers me is he QUIT... Regardless of the situation, he didn't tell the coaches (at least to my knowledge... correct me if I am wrong).


I'm pretty sure the O-line coach got fired because he was well aware of what was going on.

Check that. Not only knew but took part:

http://msn.foxsports.com/florida/story/dolphins-fire-head-trainer-kevin-o-neill-according-to-multiple-reports-021914

Quote:
In his report released Friday, investigator Ted Wells and staff said Turner took part in the harassment of Martin and another player, and also lied to the investigators.

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bballbkd1001


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I remember is that the coaches told Richie to toughen him up
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Xfaxtor


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldnt touch him with a ten foot pole. Id much rather sign Richie
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