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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3260
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barr 4.66/4.63 1.56 split 15 reps

C. Borland 4.83/4.4.78 1.62 split

C. Bradford 4.74

M. Bullough 4.78 1.68 split

K. Fortt 4.75 1.59 split

K. Mack 4.66/4.4.62 1.56 Has looked somewhat erratic in agility drills

Mosley didn't run the 40 but moves well

T. Murphy 4.75/4.78 1.63 split

Shembo 4.71 Has shown nice agility. Listed as OLB but looks to me like he could fit in as a 3-4 ILB

Van Noy 4.66/4.60 1.60 split Has looked stiff in agility drills

J. Zumwalt 4.70/4.72 1.59 split
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And no, truth is not a 'fact.' Which is why they are two different words.


Last edited by Chieferific on Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

That doesnt mean they are pointless. Maybe in terms of showing off actual football ability, but the athleticism these players show can sway GMs/scouts one way or the other. Obviously they have an idea who they will be interested in, but the combine results can still have huge impacts.


Regardless, Moncrief was among the best in nearly every drill. If he did anything, he improved his stock. That's the point. His shuttle time doesn't negate everything else he did.
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 4058
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
I hope Nix dropping a complete deuce today completely eliminates him from first round consideration for the Steelers. Sloppy as hell. Second round...whatever that's fine, but I will be buying a new television if he's the first rounder.

I'm not sure how we could incorporate Donald scheme wise, but holy crap, the kid does nothing but exceed expectations. I don't like first round DT's generally even for 43 teams and one that isn't a scheme fit would double down on that for me, but I would be intrigued as hell to have this kid on board. Can't see him making it past the Bears at this point.


I would've hoped the opposite...this all but guarantees he'll be available at 15. Had he blown up the combine, maybe someone would've taken him before us ala Poe from 2012.

Looking at who will most assuredly go before us:

Mack
Clowney
Manziel
Bortles
Bridgewater
Watkins
Robinson
Matthews

That left 6 prospects that could've moved into the top 14 with a good Combine. I think Evans, thankfully, put himself into top 14 consideration with his speed. Lewan MAY have moved himself up, but no guarantee. Carr MAY have moved up with his speed, same as Donald.

But then guys like Barr and Nix, they may fall to 15, and I don't want either one, personally.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49979
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
treat88 wrote:
I hope Nix dropping a complete deuce today completely eliminates him from first round consideration for the Steelers. .


you realize Colbert stated publically that he was happy that Jarvis Jones did so pathetically bad at his Pro Day, right?

Nix's combine times are probably about as relevant as his favorite color when it comes to who the Steelers draft


Jones was much better college player than Nix ever was.

Jones wouldve been taken top 8 if not for his combine.

If Nix had a good combine, he still still wouldnt have went anywhere near top 10.

Nix shouldnt even be taken in the first two rounds. Dude is a bum. Since I started watching the draft regularly back in 2006, there hasnt been a single first round pick I actually hated or even really disliked.

Not sure how I would react if we took such a mediocre player in the first round.

Seriously...can anyone even begin to explain to me why Nix is considered first round talent? Every time I watch him he looks terrible. A few good plays here and there and dominating against the weakest competition shouldnt make him first round talent.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Quote:

That doesnt mean they are pointless. Maybe in terms of showing off actual football ability, but the athleticism these players show can sway GMs/scouts one way or the other. Obviously they have an idea who they will be interested in, but the combine results can still have huge impacts.


Regardless, Moncrief was among the best in nearly every drill. If he did anything, he improved his stock. That's the point. His shuttle time doesn't negate everything else he did.


Where did I say a thing about Moncreif?

My comment had absolutely nothing to do with him.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
treat88 wrote:
I hope Nix dropping a complete deuce today completely eliminates him from first round consideration for the Steelers. .


you realize Colbert stated publically that he was happy that Jarvis Jones did so pathetically bad at his Pro Day, right?

Nix's combine times are probably about as relevant as his favorite color when it comes to who the Steelers draft


Jones was much better college player than Nix ever was.

Jones wouldve been taken top 8 if not for his combine.

If Nix had a good combine, he still still wouldnt have went anywhere near top 10.

Nix shouldnt even be taken in the first two rounds. Dude is a bum. Since I started watching the draft regularly back in 2006, there hasnt been a single first round pick I actually hated or even really disliked.

Not sure how I would react if we took such a mediocre player in the first round.

Seriously...can anyone even begin to explain to me why Nix is considered first round talent? Every time I watch him he looks terrible. A few good plays here and there and dominating against the weakest competition shouldnt make him first round talent.


Tell us how you really feel 43M.

Nix is considered the best NT by default. But believe there are some other players they will challenge his spot.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
treat88 wrote:
I hope Nix dropping a complete deuce today completely eliminates him from first round consideration for the Steelers. .


you realize Colbert stated publically that he was happy that Jarvis Jones did so pathetically bad at his Pro Day, right?

Nix's combine times are probably about as relevant as his favorite color when it comes to who the Steelers draft


Jones was much better college player than Nix ever was.

Jones wouldve been taken top 8 if not for his combine.

If Nix had a good combine, he still still wouldnt have went anywhere near top 10.

Nix shouldnt even be taken in the first two rounds. Dude is a bum. Since I started watching the draft regularly back in 2006, there hasnt been a single first round pick I actually hated or even really disliked.

Not sure how I would react if we took such a mediocre player in the first round.

Seriously...can anyone even begin to explain to me why Nix is considered first round talent? Every time I watch him he looks terrible. A few good plays here and there and dominating against the weakest competition shouldnt make him first round talent.


Tell us how you really feel 43M.

Nix is considered the best NT by default. But believe there are some other players they will challenge his spot.


Maybe not a BUM in general, but a bum in terms of being the supposed first round talent many claim he is.

Notre Dame players get laughably overrated every single year, even if they arent that good.

Nix has never, at any point in his college career, been great or consistently dominant.

And even if Nix is the best NT by default, that doesnt mean he should be a first rounder.
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JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nix has demonstrated at times especially last year that he is an athletic big man that hustles on the field during the game. Chases after players sideline to sideline. Has displayed more sustainability and typical 3-4 NT traits than say Dantari Poe did at Memphis.

That all being said ...his love for the game and attitude about it , as well as off field work ethic are very very much a concern for me. The injury did not help the finishing evaluation process and left a lot of concerns hanging in the balance. A good final bowl game would've been a very valuable thing to see.

I'm not as against the pick as many but have to admit there seems to be just too many questions and uncertainties for me to stay on board. If he doesn't throw up 20 reps he'd fall significantly in my eyes reflecting work ethic and desire to be the best.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
treat88 wrote:
I hope Nix dropping a complete deuce today completely eliminates him from first round consideration for the Steelers. .


you realize Colbert stated publically that he was happy that Jarvis Jones did so pathetically bad at his Pro Day, right?

Nix's combine times are probably about as relevant as his favorite color when it comes to who the Steelers draft


Jones was much better college player than Nix ever was. agreed

Jones wouldve been taken top 8 if not for his combine. and if Limas Sweed could catch, he'd still be with the Steelers

If Nix had a good combine, he still still wouldnt have went anywhere near top 10. don't be so sure. If he had a Dontari Poe combine, he would've gone higher possibly. See above regarding "if"

Nix shouldnt even be taken in the first two rounds. Dude is a bum. now that's a stretch. Overrated? Sure. But he's Phil Taylor when healthy. Since I started watching the draft regularly back in 2006, there hasnt been a single first round pick I actually hated or even really disliked.

Not sure how I would react if we took such a mediocre player in the first round. same way I reacted last season

Seriously...can anyone even begin to explain to me why Nix is considered first round talent? he was pretty decent last season and he played for Notre Dame. He moves well for a fatty. Not great, but decently, although knee problems worry the heck out of me Every time I watch him he looks terrible. A few good plays here and there and dominating against the weakest competition shouldnt make him first round talent. so much for the smokescreen. I wish I could disagree with you
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
Jones wouldve been taken top 8 if not for his combine. and if Limas Sweed could catch, he'd still be with the Steelers


I know...but the point is, unlike Nix, Jones was actually worth a high pick based on his college play. The combine dropped him.

Nix IMO has no business going first round, regardless of combine numbers.

Quote:
don't be so sure. If he had a Dontari Poe combine, he would've gone higher possibly. See above regarding "if"


Notice I said GOOD combine..meaning solid but nothing special.

Poe showed special athleticism.

Quote:
now that's a stretch. Overrated? Sure. But he's Phil Taylor when healthy.


Dont agree with that at all, and I wasnt even Taylors biggest fan.

I saw Taylor dominate a good bit in college, and against some better compeition.

Nix gets dominated more often than he dominates from what I have seen.

Nix may move well for his size, but who cares? Last time I checked, our issues with our DLine at the moment have more to do with them being unable to eat up blocks and make things easier for our LBs. Nix gets moved around too easily. IMO, we already have a big man who can penetrate in McLendon. However, we dont have that hog in the center like Hampton was, and iMO, thats not Nix by a longshot.
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Gatoradus


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking back, you have to ask yourself this, where would have Jarvis Jones been rated in this year's draft? I hesitated to say he'd still be a good 17th pick. Obviously I wasn't a fan of the pick but looking at the draft last season in comparison- I understand why...

However Kevin Colbert's trade up for Shamarko Thomas seem to be an indication he knew this year was a weak class for safeties (Shamarko Thomas probably will be ranked same or higher in this class) which bring me out to...

Could have he foreseen the strength of this class? I mean man, this class is so deep, there is likely to be very minimal amount of trade up/down in 1st but plenty in 2nd when the list start disappearing. I guess I kind of wish Kevin Colbert and the FO didn't run to podium and hand in the pick, just contemplating the pick and look into strength of draft and discuss the possibilities of trading out or for this season's draft. Realistically, I'm over it, Jarvis Jones is here to stay but the fact that we got him and made it clear on what kind of player we were looking at got me concerned because...

He already stated that NT plays an important role in Lebeau's defense and mentioned that us (Steelers) going 8-8 is a disservice to its franchise which leave me questions as... Will he finally considering about getting a FA NT? Paul Soliai come to mind (makes more sense as well) would he attempts to insert a 1st rounder defensive player even if Lebeau proclaimed it takes 3 years for a defensive player to understand the scheme (Jarvis Jones might have started but we all have seen how that worked out) so how much do Colbert values the defensive prospects in this draft considering its immaturity.

On that second note, random but... Does anyone wish we would have let Manny Sanders go last season? This draft class not only might have hurt Manny Sanders' value but we get nothing in return, essentially for a compensatory pick (maybe 7th, maybe nothing).

This year the off-season will redefines Colbert's legacy, my opinion.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Looking back, you have to ask yourself this, where would have Jarvis Jones been rated in this year's draft? I hesitated to say he'd still be a good 17th pick. Obviously I wasn't a fan of the pick but looking at the draft last season in comparison- I understand why...


Based on his college career, Jarvis still wouldve been a top 25 pick this year. This class is deep but it isnt exactly top heavy.

Quote:
However Kevin Colbert's trade up for Shamarko Thomas seem to be an indication he knew this year was a weak class for safeties (Shamarko Thomas probably will be ranked same or higher in this class) which bring me out to...


I still like the trade unless Shamarko shows he wasnt worth it. He is at least as good as any safety we could get in the 3rd round this year.

Quote:
Could have he foreseen the strength of this class? I mean man, this class is so deep, there is likely to be very minimal amount of trade up/down in 1st but plenty in 2nd when the list start disappearing. I guess I kind of wish Kevin Colbert and the FO didn't run to podium and hand in the pick, just contemplating the pick and look into strength of draft and discuss the possibilities of trading out or for this season's draft. Realistically, I'm over it, Jarvis Jones is here to stay but the fact that we got him and made it clear on what kind of player we were looking at got me concerned because...


Not sure I get what youre saying here.

Not sure what us rushing to the podium to pick Jarvis had anything to do with this years draft. Jarvis was at the top of their big board. Thats why they rushed. They didnt really need to wait.

In terms of predicting the depth of this draft class....not really. A record number of underclassmen declared, so thats why its so deep. No way of really forseeing that. On top of that, alot of players who werent even discussed last year jumped onto the scene.

To a point, they couldve see it might be deep, but not to the level it turned out to be.

Quote:
He already stated that NT plays an important role in Lebeau's defense and mentioned that us (Steelers) going 8-8 is a disservice to its franchise which leave me questions as... Will he finally considering about getting a FA NT?


We just lost Casey after 2012 and they thought McLendon could hold it down. Its not like we have been without a true LeBeau NT for long.

In terms of FA, Im sure they will look, but money will dictate how successful we are at getting one.

Quote:
Paul Soliai come to mind (makes more sense as well) would he attempts to insert a 1st rounder defensive player even if Lebeau proclaimed it takes 3 years for a defensive player to understand the scheme (Jarvis Jones might have started but we all have seen how that worked out) so how much do Colbert values the defensive prospects in this draft considering its immaturity.


Obviously, Soliai would be nice...however, several teams will be looking at him.

Quote:
On that second note, random but... Does anyone wish we would have let Manny Sanders go last season? This draft class not only might have hurt Manny Sanders' value but we get nothing in return, essentially for a compensatory pick (maybe 7th, maybe nothing).


Yes.

We should have.

However, despite all the whining from some people, it was understandable why they kept him. They werent going to go into the season with Brown, Cotchery, and 2 or 3 rookies as our top 5. Sanders wasnt great or even good, but he is still better than almost anything the Pats had on their roster this year, and hate on Sanders all you want, he could still start on several teams, if only due to how bad some teams WRs corps are.

Even Colbert sounded like he wished he wouldnt have matched the RFA tender when asked about it, but he also said it made sense at the time.

Quote:
This year the off-season will redefines Colbert's legacy, my opinion.


It will definitely be part of it, but we have younger players from past drafts that will also help/hurt his legacy. If guys like DeCastro, Heyward, and other young players can keep developing and we have a good offseason, it will be a combination of the last few years and probably next year that dictates where this team goes and how Colbert is view 5 years from now.
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Gatoradus


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where I was going with the part that the Steelers FO running to the podium; even with JUST seniors, this was a deep class regardless, you had some surprise players (Dee Ford for example) but others that were already predicted to come out. Guess I'm just saying aloud; FOR once I'd like to see them take their time. Let GMs get nervous and make some calls, not to make trades or anything but... at least hear them out? you know?

Actually if they felt like NT is the issue; THEY have to address this position via free agency, I'm serious. You just don't wait for Casey Hampton's kind or somebody to develops into one. We don't have that luxury (which is why, I'm not that concerned with Louis Nix I think they are just hearing him out and checking on him in case he drop to next few rounds) just like safety/cornerback position, at least one of them has to be addressed via free agency (including a pay-cut for Ike Taylor) and then draft one or two (very likely, two) in the draft.

If it is in Steelers FO best interest to draft Louis Nix, either Kevin Colbert or - Lebeau is on one of their way out.

What I'm more interested in is whether we will change to a different kind of 3-4 we will stay true to throughout the season (just the majority of base defense).

For example if we were to stay with McLendon at NT, we will have to draft a thumper again (Andrew Jackson) or change a scheme a bit where Aaron Donald would be allow to attack the blocker as he please with Timmons looming (they have done this a lot in 90's with Steed and Kirkland) but of course as a process of evaluation, you always assume somebody is at the position he is now, never the position he could play at.
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cbrunn2


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its either

Barr
Denard

or trade back for me ... The talent in say the 15-32 is all even to me
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gatoradus wrote:
Where I was going with the part that the Steelers FO running to the podium; even with JUST seniors, this was a deep class regardless, you had some surprise players (Dee Ford for example) but others that were already predicted to come out. Guess I'm just saying aloud; FOR once I'd like to see them take their time. Let GMs get nervous and make some calls, not to make trades or anything but... at least hear them out? you know?


I get what you are saying, however, the Steelers were set on Jones. Like him or hate him, our front office had no desire to trade out of that spot. Same with the previous 2 years.

Colbert has stated time and time again that they will only trade out of that spot if they feel they can get the top player or one of their top players later. However, Heyward, DeCastro and Jones were far and away their BPAs, and werent going to trade out of those spots...so there would be no point in waiting.

Quote:
Actually if they felt like NT is the issue; THEY have to address this position via free agency, I'm serious.


I agree...to a point.

Just depends who we can get.

if its more of the same, Id rather get a younger guy.

Quote:
You just don't wait for Casey Hampton's kind or somebody to develops into one. We don't have that luxury (which is why, I'm not that concerned with Louis Nix I think they are just hearing him out and checking on him in case he drop to next few rounds) just like safety/cornerback position, at least one of them has to be addressed via free agency (including a pay-cut for Ike Taylor) and then draft one or two (very likely, two) in the draft.


Agreed, but there arent many NTs in FA that are going to be both good fits and better than what we already have.

I want us to check out Red Bryant, although he might be more suited for 5 tech.

Quote:
If it is in Steelers FO best interest to draft Louis Nix, either Kevin Colbert or - Lebeau is on one of their way out.


I dont know that I would go that far. I dont want Nix at all, but if they feel he is the answer at NT, then thats up to them...and there is no way for us to say they are wrong until he actually proves it, one way or the other.

Quote:
What I'm more interested in is whether we will change to a different kind of 3-4 we will stay true to throughout the season (just the majority of base defense).


New wrinkles...but LeBeau isnt going to make drastic changes.

Old dog....mostly old tricks.

Quote:
For example if we were to stay with McLendon at NT, we will have to draft a thumper again (Andrew Jackson) or change a scheme a bit where Aaron Donald would be allow to attack the blocker as he please with Timmons looming (they have done this a lot in 90's with Steed and Kirkland) but of course as a process of evaluation, you always assume somebody is at the position he is now, never the position he could play at.


I dont see any of that happening.

I see us running the same 34 regardless of NT, just with a few new wrinkles here and there.

I love LeBeau, but think his days of coaching top defenses is over. Time to move on IMO.
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