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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 4382
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know or care what the shuttle or 3 cones or any other drills were. When I watch Moncrief, the one thing I have no doubt about is his ability to change directions. Exact opposite of a guy like Bryant who apparently posted a lower time.

I consider most of the drills pointless.
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SlevinKelevra


Joined: 23 Jul 2013
Posts: 1719
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

95lloyd wrote:
CKSteeler wrote:

Moncrief is a guy who is going to have increasing stock as time goes on, though. He's a R2 guy. He plays as fast as he times, and is the smoothest big WR in this class. Outside the really small guys and Watkins, I don't think anyone cuts as well as he does.



Moncrief had a pretty average short shuttle time though. It seems to be a pretty good indicator for how quickly guys transition in and out of cuts.

4.32 is pretty pedestrian, although surprisingly Watkins had similar time.

Bryant, Street, Robinson, Janis. Abbrederis were all taller guys who were 4.15 or lower.


dafuq
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95lloyd


Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 416
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
I don't know or care what the shuttle or 3 cones or any other drills were. When I watch Moncrief, the one thing I have no doubt about is his ability to change directions. Exact opposite of a guy like Bryant who apparently posted a lower time.

I consider most of the drills pointless.


You may consider them pointless but obviously the NFL doesn't. Short shuttle is primarily run to evaluate the quickness and change-of-direction ability of players. All I'm saying is he didn't do well in it.

While I don't think he hurt his draft stock at all today I don't think he didn't anything to elevate it.
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95lloyd


Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 416
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
I don't know or care what the shuttle or 3 cones or any other drills were. When I watch Moncrief, the one thing I have no doubt about is his ability to change directions. Exact opposite of a guy like Bryant who apparently posted a lower time.

I consider most of the drills pointless.


You may consider them pointless but obviously the NFL doesn't. Short shuttle is primarily run to evaluate the quickness and change-of-direction ability of players. All I'm saying is he didn't do well in it.

While I don't think he hurt his draft stock at all today I don't think he didn't anything to elevate it.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 4382
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You may consider them pointless but obviously the NFL does


Time and again a GM/coach can say they value the interview and medical exams the most important part of the combine...Colbert has stated in the past 90% of their evaluation is done before they arrive in Indy.

Moncrief had a great workout.
Moncrief:
40-4.4
Ver-39.5
BJ-11'
Shuttle-4.3
3-cone-7.02

Player B, 6'2 220:
40-4.34
Ver-38.5
BJ-11'3
Shuttle-4.25
3-Cone-6.66

Player C, 5'10 186:
40: 4.56
Ver-33.5
BJ-8'09
Shuttle-4.18
3-cone-6.98

What do these players excel at on the field, based on those numbers? Player B and C in particular.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49852
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Quote:
You may consider them pointless but obviously the NFL does


Time and again a GM/coach can say they value the interview and medical exams the most important part of the combine...Colbert has stated in the past 90% of their evaluation is done before they arrive in Indy.

Moncrief had a great workout.
Moncrief:
40-4.4
Ver-39.5
BJ-11'
Shuttle-4.3
3-cone-7.02

Player B, 6'2 220:
40-4.34
Ver-38.5
BJ-11'3
Shuttle-4.25
3-Cone-6.66

Player C, 5'10 186:
40: 4.56
Ver-33.5
BJ-8'09
Shuttle-4.18
3-cone-6.98

What do these players excel at on the field, based on those numbers? Player B and C in particular.


That doesnt mean they are pointless. Maybe in terms of showing off actual football ability, but the athleticism these players show can sway GMs/scouts one way or the other. Obviously they have an idea who they will be interested in, but the combine results can still have huge impacts.

If they were pointless, you wouldnt constantly see stocks rising and falling based on combine results. Obviously, interviews and medical stuff plays a role too, but the athletic assessments do as well.

As for those players....not sure who B is, but C looks like Antonio Brown.
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JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 7099
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carl Bradford. Flying extremely low below the radar, should look pretty good today. It would be fine with me if he doesn't though Wink
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Bobikus


Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 8826
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if 90% of evaluation is done before the combine, that 10% is still meaningful, especially when prospects are often essentially in "tiers" where a half dozen prospects might not be largely different from each other in rankings. A good combine that sets a prospect above even just one other person at his position could translate to going 10+ draft spots higher.
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 4044
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:

I have only seen one game of Dri Archer and did not see 4.26 by any means. Middle linebackers were running him down on sweeps etc. The team did not kickoff to him however. I should have another game of his on tap for this week.


Shocked

I saw some Dri Archer this year and holy crap he's one of the fastest guys I've ever seen

edti - crap, couldn't find the game, "terminated tdue to 3rd party violations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dpvSqIAge4

so some highlights. Really blows up the angles on a lot of plays. Not a great video but a few plays his speed is pretty evident


Same skillset as Jerrick McKinnon, with a faster 40 (4.41). But McKinnon is an inch and a half taller and 35 lbs heavier. Other than the 40 and shuttle, McKinnon outpaced Archer on the other drills (40.5" vert, 11' Broad, 6.83 3-Cone, 32 reps). Either one of them would be an interesting prospect, IMO, though McKinnon may "hold up" better to the rigors of the NFL.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3251
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ward4HOF wrote:
kethnaab wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:

I have only seen one game of Dri Archer and did not see 4.26 by any means. Middle linebackers were running him down on sweeps etc. The team did not kickoff to him however. I should have another game of his on tap for this week.


Shocked

I saw some Dri Archer this year and holy crap he's one of the fastest guys I've ever seen

edti - crap, couldn't find the game, "terminated tdue to 3rd party violations

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dpvSqIAge4

so some highlights. Really blows up the angles on a lot of plays. Not a great video but a few plays his speed is pretty evident


Same skillset as Jerrick McKinnon, with a faster 40 (4.41). But McKinnon is an inch and a half taller and 35 lbs heavier. Other than the 40 and shuttle, McKinnon outpaced Archer on the other drills (40.5" vert, 11' Broad, 6.83 3-Cone, 32 reps). Either one of them would be an interesting prospect, IMO, though McKinnon may "hold up" better to the rigors of the NFL.

McKinnon is interesting. It's fun to see a guy that's built like a bowling ball be as athletic as he is. I can't complain about the year Bell had. It was solid. But with the depth at RB this year it makes you wonder if they would have been better off waiting another year.
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Chieferific


Joined: 24 Feb 2006
Posts: 3251
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hageman 4.97/5.02 1.75 10yd split for those interested.

McDonald 4.65 1.59 10yd split (Insane times for a 285+lbs)

Ealy 4.84 1.66 split

Ellis 5.12 (Showing very nice agility)

Carrethers 5.44

*Ellis has shown to be more agile than Carrethers

Mauro 5.11 1.78 split

Nix 5.35 1.85 split

M. Sam 4.79 1.72 split

M. Smith DE Louisville has shown well 4.63 23 reps and has shown nice agility. A good Rt side 3-4 OLB fit.
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6427
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope Nix dropping a complete deuce today completely eliminates him from first round consideration for the Steelers. Sloppy as hell. Second round...whatever that's fine, but I will be buying a new television if he's the first rounder.

I'm not sure how we could incorporate Donald scheme wise, but holy crap, the kid does nothing but exceed expectations. I don't like first round DT's generally even for 43 teams and one that isn't a scheme fit would double down on that for me, but I would be intrigued as hell to have this kid on board. Can't see him making it past the Bears at this point.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49852
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
I hope Nix dropping a complete deuce today completely eliminates him from first round consideration for the Steelers. Sloppy as hell. Second round...whatever that's fine, but I will be buying a new television if he's the first rounder.


I hoped his play on the field wouldve done that first.

Quote:
I'm not sure how we could incorporate Donald scheme wise, but holy crap, the kid does nothing but exceed expectations. I don't like first round DT's generally even for 43 teams and one that isn't a scheme fit would double down on that for me, but I would be intrigued as hell to have this kid on board. Can't see him making it past the Bears at this point.


I wouldnt take him. I just dont see the fit unless we are going 4-3. I honestly think the Cowboys would take him with the very next pick, and honestly, I wouldnt be shocked if the Rams took him to play alongside Brockers.

I dont think there are any DLineman prospects Id really want in the first round. I really like Hageman, but he is too boom/bust for me to take him at 15. Im not completely against a boom bust player. but if we are taking that risk, Id rather do it at a skill position.
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kethnaab


Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 10020
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
I hope Nix dropping a complete deuce today completely eliminates him from first round consideration for the Steelers. .


you realize Colbert stated publically that he was happy that Jarvis Jones did so pathetically bad at his Pro Day, right?

Nix's combine times are probably about as relevant as his favorite color when it comes to who the Steelers draft
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6427
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kethnaab wrote:
treat88 wrote:
I hope Nix dropping a complete deuce today completely eliminates him from first round consideration for the Steelers. .


you realize Colbert stated publically that he was happy that Jarvis Jones did so pathetically bad at his Pro Day, right?

Nix's combine times are probably about as relevant as his favorite color when it comes to who the Steelers draft


Salient points both.

All comes down to wishful thinking on my part. Looking for reasons to feel secure they wouldn't seriously consider him at 15.
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