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Would you draft Michael Sam?
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Would you draft Michael Sam?
Yes
50%
 50%  [ 10 ]
No
50%
 50%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 20

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cbrunn2


Joined: 08 Feb 2013
Posts: 1334
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
While I do see your point 43M and it's a valid one, I also look at it like this;

I actually admire the guy a bit for his guts. He basically came out and said "this is who I am, if you're not okay with that, don't waste my time by drafting me".

Which you know what, to me, shows a lot of fortitude. He's being honest about who he is and what people are getting in the person beyond the player. I think he started out on the right foot here and it shows the type of man he is imo. That's something I can appreciate.


100% he's a great kid. And 100% its brave. But I just also don't want to bring it into a locker room where there is already an atmosphere and chemistry

guess as GM and coach you'd need the pulse of the locker room, and I'd definitely discuss with the team leaders that you could target him and what's their thoughts on how it would effect the locker room
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
While I do see your point 43M and it's a valid one, I also look at it like this;

I actually admire the guy a bit for his guts. He basically came out and said "this is who I am, if you're not okay with that, don't waste my time by drafting me".

Which you know what, to me, shows a lot of fortitude. He's being honest about who he is and what people are getting in the person beyond the player. I think he started out on the right foot here and it shows the type of man he is imo. That's something I can appreciate.


I agree its a pretty corageous thing to do and I wish him nothing but the best....but in the end, some people are just to narrow minded and idiotic to accept this, and sadly, alot of them are players in the NFL. DONT GET ME WRONG...I am sure that most will not have a huge issue with it, but even if 3 guys in the locker room due, that has the makings of a huge disaster.

In the end, the drama is the only reason I dont want him. Not due to him, but due to people who cant accept it and ultimately the media who will undoubted swarm around any minor incident.

I wish him the best, but I would let another team take that chance....and whatever team he goes to, I hope he succeeds...at the very least, in terms of being accepted by his peers.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually agree with that as well 43M.

I've said for a while now that one of the things I think the Steelers truly lack is leadership. Michael Sam is going to have to go to a team, imo, with strong leadership.

I think a team like the New England Patriots, the San Francisco 49ers (that'd be a very accepting city as well), Maybe the Denver Broncos? Where there are some key veterans and impactful leaders, is where Sam might find his personal transition to the NFL easiest. That's not to suggest he cannot succeed personally as well as professionally on any other team, those are just the teams that stick out in my mind.

I do agree that 'old habits' die hard and for a guy with the lifestyle of Sam and it being known more so, I think that his transition to the NFL is going to require an adjustment period, not just for him but for his teammates in the locker room.
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C$!


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would take a chance on him he was the best defensive player in the best conference in college football, the kid can play.
As for the locker room garbage, the issue is with them. The real reason, I think, players don't want a gay teammate in the locker room is because they think a gay man wants to get with EVERY other man. He's not some deviant who is going to try to grab at guys while they change. He's a football player who happens to be gay. It's pretty sad that this is such an issue really, but once his teammates see that all he wants to do it play football this will die down. In a good locker room, if he plays well and hard nobody will care.
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the issue I see, and it's been alluded to, but when a GM/HC makes a decision to draft Sam, they are making the choice for 52 other players on the team as well. And as sad as it might be, the reality is that people are, by nature, judgmental to one degree or another. And nobody is perfect or above being judgmental/prejudicial to different ideals or beliefs. I don't like people that spell their names with numbers (Ocho Cinco, FourThreeMafia, etc. Razz ) But seriously, look what happened in Miami with Martin. Different issue completely, but still wrecked the team. And like it or not, this IS a sensitive issue for some. We aren't supposed to talk religion, but you where I'm going with this.

All I have to say is the GM/HC that decides to draft Sam would be wise to take a non-attributional, secret poll of it's projected top 40 or so players to make sure none will have an issue before drafting. Does that make it a bigger issue than it needs to be? Yep. Is it inherently wrong to do so? Yep. But until this country's population demonstrates the acceptance, sadly, this will be the case IMO. My evidence? Why is this news? Is the fact of Sam's race news? Would it have been 100 years ago? Yep. I would sincerely hope that as time passes, this will become a non "news worthy" issue.

I think it's much easier for fans to pontificate, but in the same vein of what I just mentioned, why should it even be discussed, since it has no bearing on his football abilities OR ability to help a team. Fans (me included) and media alike are propelling this into something more than it should be.

OK, off my soap box now! Wink And BTW, I think Sam would be a solid 4th/5th Rd pick that could be a rotational LB asset, just probably not going to be starter material anytime soon, judging from what I've seen/read of him.
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw he was listed at 6'2. Like 'brick said-OLB or nothing. That's awful short for a DE.

He better learn a new bag of tricks if he wants to make it in the NFL.
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wwhickok


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stillersenat wrote:
I saw he was listed at 6'2. Like 'brick said-OLB or nothing. That's awful short for a DE.

He better learn a new bag of tricks if he wants to make it in the NFL.


That's a valid point, given the size of Offensive linemen, I don't honestly believe he could be a legitimate defensive end.

Let ask you this, do you believe he is someone who could play ILB vs. OLB? (Not necessarily or us)
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wwhickok wrote:
stillersenat wrote:
I saw he was listed at 6'2. Like 'brick said-OLB or nothing. That's awful short for a DE.

He better learn a new bag of tricks if he wants to make it in the NFL.


That's a valid point, given the size of Offensive linemen, I don't honestly believe he could be a legitimate defensive end.

Let ask you this, do you believe he is someone who could play ILB vs. OLB? (Not necessarily or us)


I haven't seen his skillset, so I don't know. But think about the "tweener" fad that was around a few years ago. How many DEs converted to OLB successfully? If he converts to OLB for 4-3 or 3-4, then he will have to learn how to cover, set the edge (as an OLB vs. a DE), scrape and chase. These aren't things that are always emphasized when your a DE.

It's not going to be as simple as plug and play. If he has enough physical tools and enough work ethic, sure he could. But how many players do we say that about and we never hear about them again?
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jebrick


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure he will be tested as a OLB in his pro day. I do not see him as explosive as say Woodley or Spence were ( two DE who translated well into OLB) That puts him as a risky pick. I think there are better risks I would take like Derrell Johnson who is the same height and build but has played OLB for 4 years at ECU.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has everyone heard the stories about what Charles Haley used to do in the locker room? The attitude from the organization was deal with it because he's a great football player even though what he did bordered on the insane and dangerous. I'm sure every team has a number of guys who would be uncomfortable over this, but at the end of the day, teams bring in a lot of guys who teammates don't care for. They aren't all buddy buddy. The idea that Sam being gay is anymore of a distraction than the ones NFL teams willingly take on every year is absurd to me.

Once the guy gets on a team, guys are going to get over the hang-ups pretty quick. I'd be willing to bet there are gay players in the league right now who aren't open with the media, but a number of their teammates know or at least suspect it.

If Sam can play, nothing else is going to matter by training camp. And the league and team that does draft him is going to be pretty vigilant in making sure nothing stupid happens.

Quote:

I actually admire the guy a bit for his guts. He basically came out and said "this is who I am, if you're not okay with that, don't waste my time by drafting me".


I think he showed guts when he came out to his teammates at Missouri, but it doesn't seem like he had much choice here. Apparently, his sexuality was well known at the Senior Bowl by the media, and if the media knew, you can bet teams did, as well. So, he had the choice to either jump on the story now while he controlled the narrative, or wait and run the risk that someone else would do it.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Haley comparison doesnt work...at all....and is not even remotely comparable.

Forget the fact that they are two completely different situations, but its also a different time. The media is everywhere, swarms over every story, and any little issue could turn this into a Jonathan Martin situations.

Thats what scares me...that this COULD be a Jonathan Martin situation waiting to happen. Granted, I dont think we have idiots like Incognitio (and apparently, Mike Pouncey and John Jerry), but all it takes is some over the top rookie hazing from players who dont like his lifestyle and this becomes a PR nightmare.

Yes....I think the majority of players could get past it or at least keep their heads on straight, however, like I said....all it takes is one player and one incident and it becomes a total PR nightmare and distraction we dont want or need.

I dont this to sound like I dont want him due to his lifestyle. Its sad that its even a factor that needs to be considered, but the fact is....it is. Not because of him personally, but because of other players and the possible issues that could arise. Its like combine a bunch of chemicals that dont really have a reaction, but combine one that reacts to any one of the chemicals in there and it could have explosive results.

Would I be MAD if we took him? No.

But I would be worried...at least for that first year.
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treat88


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C$! wrote:
I would take a chance on him he was the best defensive player in the best conference in college football, the kid can play.


No he wasn't, and maybe.

The award absolutely doesn't mean he was the best NFL prospect.
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Last edited by treat88 on Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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treat88


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
If Sam can play, nothing else is going to matter by training camp.


This is all it comes down too.

I think whatever happens with the locker room dynamics is mostly up to the way Sam comports himself. He certainly seems like he's an articulate kid that will be able to see the nuances of a locker room and handle himself accordingly. If hes got guys small minded enough to give him a hard time despite his efforts to be a teammate then I think he will handle that appropriately also.

Martin was mentally unstable. I don't see a comp there any more than I do with Haley.
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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thats what scares me...that this COULD be a Jonathan Martin situation waiting to happen. Granted, I dont think we have idiots like Incognitio (and apparently, Mike Pouncey and John Jerry), but all it takes is some over the top rookie hazing from players who dont like his lifestyle and this becomes a PR nightmare.


If the leadership on this team is that stupid, then I think that's an issue that needs to be taken up with said 'leaders' who shouldn't have that sort of role on the team to begin with. Beyond that, coaches, and the league are going to beat it into players heads not to do these sorts of things. Anyone who doesn't get the memo at that point is a lost cause.

Quote:

Forget the fact that they are two completely different situations, but its also a different time. The media is everywhere, swarms over every story, and any little issue could turn this into a Jonathan Martin situations.


How is it entirely different? The point was a lot of guys were uncomfortable playing with him (and for good reasons, better than anything to do with Sam).

Any player could basically become a Jonathan Martin type situation if you have the wrong type of people on your team who don't reign in stupid behavior.

Quote:

I would take a chance on him he was the best defensive player in the best conference in college football, the kid can play.


He wasn't even the best player on his own DL.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
CKSteeler wrote:
If Sam can play, nothing else is going to matter by training camp.


This is all it comes down too.

I think whatever happens with the locker room dynamics is mostly up to the way Sam comports himself. He certainly seems like he's an articulate kid that will be able to see the nuances of a locker room and handle himself accordingly. If hes got guys small minded enough to give him a hard time despite his efforts to be a teammate then I think he will handle that appropriately also.

Martin was mentally unstable. I don't see a comp there any more than I do with Haley.


Difference is, I wasnt actually comparing Sam and Martin....I was saying that all it takes a couple idiots like those guys to create alot of drama. Even if Martin was mentally unstable, it doesnt in anyway excuse the harassment he got....and not just him, but apparently others.

Do you really think that if Sam was constantly harassed like that about his lifestyle that it wouldnt become a huge issue? Again...not saying that would be an issue here, but I seriously doubt he would let repeated abuse like that take place. Hazing is one thing.....but racial slurs and stuff like this have no place in any NFL locker room.
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