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Former GM Angelo on QBs/Romo
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
retrolock wrote:
That 90's team was so talented plan that even if even Aikman sucked in a game his RB/WR and defense will bail him out. Romo can't afford to do that, especially now. He's not Rodgers or Manning. And even Rodgers always seems to lose to the Niners.


Romo would struggle if he was our QB in the 90s, and that's because he's mentally soft. That can't be argued. There is too much evidence to support it.


I would think you'd have to be mentally tough to play through broken ribs, but maybe that's just me.


Or lead a comeback on a back requiring surgery, or to have the franchise lead for game winning drives... but sure, go ahead and say anyone who agrees with me has "no analytical relevance" and you win by dismissal.

As usual, claim realism loud enough and some people will actually believe you.

BTW, people who, according to Plan's statement, have "no analytical relevance" include Troy Aikman, Roger Staubach, Bob Sturm, and Scott Kacsmar (who literally wrote the book-- or at least the original series of articles-- on what "clutch" means).

In fact Staubach is so sick of the BS that he famously said, in the wake of the Denver game,
Quote:
“It makes no sense. Those people who blame him, I don’t know, they ought to take a look at their lives."
When you get to the point that Staubach is taking public shots at you, you've gone pretty far. He's kinder than that to Clint Longley.


HE'S 1-7 IN WIN OR GO HOME GAMES.
Stop giving me garbage. He chokes down the stretch when games matter. Weeks 17 the last three bloody years are proof of that. So, just stop making excuses for him being a mentally soft choke artist. It's who he is. And considering only people like you defend him, I'm not going to believe you. Every analyst and former player mentions the same failures in the same situations that I do, and yet people like you still dismiss them.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/myopia
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, lets bring up a team record and then blame it solely on him.

I think its also cute how people define elimination games. Games against the Steelers and Saints last year had the same implications as an elimination game. Romo played fantastic in both. The last Redskins game this season he played pretty well, and was very clutch. That game was essentially an elimination game. How about in 2011 when he played well enough to clinch a playoff spot but his defense choked it all away? Saying he played poorly in the season finale of that season is also bogus, as he had over a 100 passer rating and fared better against that Giants defense than any other QB did after him in the playoffs.
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
He chokes down the stretch when games matter. Weeks 17 the last three bloody years are proof of that.


Well lets see here.

2011: Didn't exactly light it up, but he didn't play poorly either. He came very close to leading a comeback before the defense completely fell apart. Had over a 100 passer rating in the game, and fared better than any other QB did against the Giants in the playoffs on there way to the Superbowl.

2012: Obviously this was a rough game for him. It didn't help that he was basically getting hammered after every play, but he undoubtedly played badly.

2013: Didn't play.


So one time out of those three years Romo played badly in the season finale. One. I don't think you're approaching this discussion objectively.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoFlyZone wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
He chokes down the stretch when games matter. Weeks 17 the last three bloody years are proof of that.


Well lets see here.

2011: Didn't exactly light it up, but he didn't play poorly either. He came very close to leading a comeback before the defense completely fell apart. Had over a 100 passer rating in the game, and fared better than any other QB did against the Giants in the playoffs on there way to the Superbowl.

2012: Obviously this was a rough game for him. It didn't help that he was basically getting hammered after every play, but he undoubtedly played badly.

2013: Didn't play.


So one time out of those three years Romo played badly in the season finale. One. I don't think you're approaching this discussion objectively.


You've been blindly defending his failures for months, yet you question MY objectivity? Oooooook. Rolling Eyes
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll ask this yet again: if Slam and I are so off base about Romo's choke jobs and mental meltdowns, why does every analyst and former player who speaks about the issue agree with us and point out those same flaws? Wouldn't they know better than you considering they played the game?
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Slamman wrote:
..against the same giants in the playoffs he has a bad game and had happy feet the entire second half (before anybody brings up Patrick Crayton, Romo had plenty of other chances both before and after the Crayton drop).

It doesn't matter. He played well enough to win. He should have won. Just another example of the team letting him down.

The_Slamman wrote:
Then in week 17, he has probably the worst game of his career.

Agreed.

The_Slamman wrote:
In 2011, romo put up incredible numbers against the giants in week 14.

Yes, in a game that going into the Cowboys knew was very important. If they won, they were in the playoffs. Too bad the defense choked the game away.

The_Slamman wrote:
Then in week 17, he has a really bad game against the same giants defense.

Really bad game? Are you serious? I've already given my stance on this game, so I won't repeat. At the very worst, Romo was decent in this game.
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
He chokes down the stretch when games matter. Weeks 17 the last three bloody years are proof of that.


Well lets see here.

2011: Didn't exactly light it up, but he didn't play poorly either. He came very close to leading a comeback before the defense completely fell apart. Had over a 100 passer rating in the game, and fared better than any other QB did against the Giants in the playoffs on there way to the Superbowl.

2012: Obviously this was a rough game for him. It didn't help that he was basically getting hammered after every play, but he undoubtedly played badly.

2013: Didn't play.


So one time out of those three years Romo played badly in the season finale. One. I don't think you're approaching this discussion objectively.


You've been blindly defending his failures for months, yet you question MY objectivity? Oooooook. Rolling Eyes

I have made some valid points. I'm not blindly defending anything.

Would you care to perhaps give me a counter argument?
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoFlyZone wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
He chokes down the stretch when games matter. Weeks 17 the last three bloody years are proof of that.


Well lets see here.

2011: Didn't exactly light it up, but he didn't play poorly either. He came very close to leading a comeback before the defense completely fell apart. Had over a 100 passer rating in the game, and fared better than any other QB did against the Giants in the playoffs on there way to the Superbowl.

2012: Obviously this was a rough game for him. It didn't help that he was basically getting hammered after every play, but he undoubtedly played badly.

2013: Didn't play.


So one time out of those three years Romo played badly in the season finale. One. I don't think you're approaching this discussion objectively.


You've been blindly defending his failures for months, yet you question MY objectivity? Oooooook. Rolling Eyes

I have made some valid points. I'm not blindly defending anything.

Would care to perhaps give me a counter argument?


I've cited examples to you for months.

Again, 1-7 in win or go home games. He comes up small each and every time. I don't care about the 4th quarter comebacks in the regular season. I care about getting into the playoffs and winning, and he has shown an incredible inability to do that. The proof is in the pudding. I can't help the fact that you're refusing to acknowledge it and continually apologize for it when you notice it's there.
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TD-ES-JJ


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for the record, there really is no such thing as "played good enough to win". Either you win or you don't...period.

Whether you throw for 500yds and lose or 150yds and lose, the result is the same. You didn't make enough plays to win...you needed at least one more play.

Just saying.
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Dirk Gently


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
I'll ask this yet again: if Slam and I are so off base about Romo's choke jobs and mental meltdowns, why does every analyst and former player who speaks about the issue agree with us and point out those same flaws? Wouldn't they know better than you considering they played the game?


I already named four who don't. But I guess Roger and Troy know nothing about being an NFL QB and so don't count as having "analytical relevance" and Football Outsiders hired Scott Kacsmar because his work on what makes a clutch performance hasn't had any effect at all on the way people look at QBs.

Sturm is Sturm. Say what you will about him.
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TD-ES-JJ wrote:
Just for the record, there really is no such thing as "played good enough to win". Either you win or you don't...period.

Whether you throw for 500yds and lose or 150yds and lose, the result is the same. You didn't make enough plays to win...you needed at least one more play.

Just saying.

Well when its not your fault that the last play that you needed wasn't made..
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NoFlyZone


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
He chokes down the stretch when games matter. Weeks 17 the last three bloody years are proof of that.


Well lets see here.

2011: Didn't exactly light it up, but he didn't play poorly either. He came very close to leading a comeback before the defense completely fell apart. Had over a 100 passer rating in the game, and fared better than any other QB did against the Giants in the playoffs on there way to the Superbowl.

2012: Obviously this was a rough game for him. It didn't help that he was basically getting hammered after every play, but he undoubtedly played badly.

2013: Didn't play.


So one time out of those three years Romo played badly in the season finale. One. I don't think you're approaching this discussion objectively.


You've been blindly defending his failures for months, yet you question MY objectivity? Oooooook. Rolling Eyes

I have made some valid points. I'm not blindly defending anything.

Would care to perhaps give me a counter argument?


I've cited examples to you for months.

Again, 1-7 in win or go home games. He comes up small each and every time. I don't care about the 4th quarter comebacks in the regular season. I care about getting into the playoffs and winning, and he has shown an incredible inability to do that. The proof is in the pudding. I can't help the fact that you're refusing to acknowledge it and continually apologize for it when you notice it's there.

Did you even bother to read my post??

I have refuted everything you have said and you have not once given me a counter argument. I'm not refusing to acknowledge anything. You're the one refusing to acknowledge any evidence proving you wrong.

If what I'm saying is incorrect then why can't you ever be bothered to try and prove otherwise?
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TD-ES-JJ


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoFlyZone wrote:
TD-ES-JJ wrote:
Just for the record, there really is no such thing as "played good enough to win". Either you win or you don't...period.

Whether you throw for 500yds and lose or 150yds and lose, the result is the same. You didn't make enough plays to win...you needed at least one more play.

Just saying.

Well when its not your fault that the last play that you needed wasn't made..


...you lost.
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be WARE94


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TD-ES-JJ wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
TD-ES-JJ wrote:
Just for the record, there really is no such thing as "played good enough to win". Either you win or you don't...period.

Whether you throw for 500yds and lose or 150yds and lose, the result is the same. You didn't make enough plays to win...you needed at least one more play.

Just saying.

Well when its not your fault that the last play that you needed wasn't made..


...you lost.


how can you argue that tony didn't play good enough for the dallas cowboys to win against the broncos? or that game against the giants a few years back where he threw like 4 touchdowns and we blew a 12 point lead in like 5 seconds? he was CLEARLY friggen AMAZING in both those games.....if our defense could force a turnover.....or idk even a damn PUNT(most defenses force offenses to do this at least a few times a game).....we are probably in the playoffs the last 2 or 3 years.....he can't do it all by himself.....not EVERY game should come down the final damn seconds......if EVERY quarterback was forced into as many comeback situations/win or go home games on NATIONAL television EVERY year as Tony Romo has......with the Cowboys team he's had assembled around him from TOP to bottom....they wouldn't fair much better.....in fact with the exception of maybe 3-4 guys i'm willing to bet we'd be FAR worse off then we have been WITH romo......he's not montana,manning,brady,marino,unitas level......but he's not ryan leaf or even trent differ either
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I've seen, there have been times when Romo has played well enough to win, but the team let him down and he gotten overly scrutinized for a couple mistakes. Other times he's stunk up the joint but was far from the only player to do so.

Basically, he's shown up and lost and not shown up and lost. Ironically, that's exactly how I feel about the Tony Romo debate, no matter where you stand on him. You can show up and not win the argument, or not show up and not win the argument. I lean toward the latter.
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