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2014 Free Agency, let the cuts begin (Around the Legue)
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spencer was arguably our best player in 2012. If we can get him cheap, it would be a smart investment.

I think Melton is all of our dream FA.
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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Felix=Fast!


Joined: 27 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Spencer was arguably our best player in 2012. If we can get him cheap, it would be a smart investment.

I think Melton is all of our dream FA.
Melton would help this defense and at least just bolster the DT rotation. Melton+Donald sounds good to me.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
I mean, let's not forget, Leaf, Russel, Akili Smith, Couch, David Carr, Kyle Boller and Jason Campbell were all 'can't miss' QBs too going into the draft. Where they at now? For every Peyton, for every 2003 and 1983 draft class of QBs, there are dozens of Leafs and 2005 (That was the Young/Leinart one, right?) draft classes.


Incorrect. Only one of those QBs were considered to be "can't miss" prospect, and that was Ryan Leaf, so that's not even a remotely accurate statement. Every other QB you listed had major question marks coming out of college. Campbell had the fewest issues of the remaining players on that list, but there were concerns with his leadership abilities and decision making.
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Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Spencer was arguably our best player in 2012. If we can get him cheap, it would be a smart investment.

I think Melton is all of our dream FA.


Spencer had an average year and benefitted from Ware flushing the QBs toward Spencer's side. Spencer is an average player that shined one season after how many very mediocre ones? And he only showed anything good in 2012 because of the down year of Ware - if Ware had the same explosiveness as we knew him to have, most of those Spencer sacks would have been Ware sacks. Instead, his injuries slowed him, and he fflushed the QB to Spencer's arms.

And know what? There's more to playing an edge rusher than sack totals. I'd rather have a guy that has 25 pressures and 6 sacks than a guy with 10 pressures and 12 sacks. Pressures cause turnovers more than attempts at strips. Sacks can result in a QB getting up and throwing a first down the next play anyway. Pressures cause mistakes. Sacks are usually the results of mistakes (by the opposing OL).

And being able to seal an edge against the run is just as important. Spencer has poor footing and gets beat around vs the run.

Spencer is a marginal player who is worth far less than he will ask for. And paying to keep guys like him is exactly why this team is in cap debt. If you pay your Austins, Barbers, Ratliffs and Spencers, you end up an average team who overpaid for average players. Which is what thsi team has been for 3 years since they started overpaying for mediocre players.

You pay for your Wares, your wittens, your Romos and your Lees. You don't pay for your average players who had a good season. You pay for great, you pay for leaders, you pay for winners. You don't pay for average players and one hit wonders.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
Spencer is a marginal player who is worth far less than he will ask for. And paying to keep guys like him is exactly why this team is in cap debt. If you pay your Austins, Barbers, Ratliffs and Spencers, you end up an average team who overpaid for average players. Which is what thsi team has been for 3 years since they started overpaying for mediocre players.


First - I never said anything about Spencers sack totals or anything else. I just said his playing year was really good - IIRC he went to the probowl and may of even been an all pro. It was a very good year.

I said if you can sign him *CHEAP* <==operative word, I think you missed it) that it would be a good investment.

Secondly - I think you are highly confused when you said "Which is what thsi team has been for 3 years since they started overpaying for mediocre players". Most of those ridiculous contracts came 4+ years ago. Under Garrett, we have only given big contracts to Romo, Lee, Carr, Spencers franchise tag... and... ? ... Thats it.

It was the tenure before that where we gave out ~150+M to Roy Williams, Sensy, Barber, Ratliff, etc etc etc
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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matt79511


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Spencer is a marginal player who is worth far less than he will ask for. And paying to keep guys like him is exactly why this team is in cap debt. If you pay your Austins, Barbers, Ratliffs and Spencers, you end up an average team who overpaid for average players. Which is what thsi team has been for 3 years since they started overpaying for mediocre players.


First - I never said anything about Spencers sack totals or anything else. I just said his playing year was really good - IIRC he went to the probowl and may of even been an all pro. It was a very good year.

I said if you can sign him *CHEAP* <==operative word, I think you missed it) that it would be a good investment.

Secondly - I think you are highly confused when you said "Which is what thsi team has been for 3 years since they started overpaying for mediocre players". Most of those ridiculous contracts came 4+ years ago. Under Garrett, we have only given big contracts to Romo, Lee, Carr, Spencers franchise tag... and... ? ... Thats it.

It was the tenure before that where we gave out ~150+M to Roy Williams, Sensy, Barber, Ratliff, etc etc etc


The big contracts to Ratliff and Sensabaugh were both under Garrett. Ditto Spears, Free, Livings, Scandrick, Witten (although the last two have been fine so far)
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt79511 wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Spencer is a marginal player who is worth far less than he will ask for. And paying to keep guys like him is exactly why this team is in cap debt. If you pay your Austins, Barbers, Ratliffs and Spencers, you end up an average team who overpaid for average players. Which is what thsi team has been for 3 years since they started overpaying for mediocre players.


First - I never said anything about Spencers sack totals or anything else. I just said his playing year was really good - IIRC he went to the probowl and may of even been an all pro. It was a very good year.

I said if you can sign him *CHEAP* <==operative word, I think you missed it) that it would be a good investment.

Secondly - I think you are highly confused when you said "Which is what thsi team has been for 3 years since they started overpaying for mediocre players". Most of those ridiculous contracts came 4+ years ago. Under Garrett, we have only given big contracts to Romo, Lee, Carr, Spencers franchise tag... and... ? ... Thats it.

It was the tenure before that where we gave out ~150+M to Roy Williams, Sensy, Barber, Ratliff, etc etc etc


The big contracts to Ratliff and Sensabaugh were both under Garrett. Ditto Spears, Free, Livings, Scandrick, Witten (although the last two have been fine so far)


I said Sensy, but I meant Hamlin. IIRC - Sensey didnt sign a huge deal, and when he retired it didnt effect our cap much at all.

From 2007 - 2010

Flo (42M)
Hamiln ($38M)
Austin ($57M)
Williams ($54M)
Guorode ($30M)
Columbo ($22M)
Barber ($45M)
Davis ($50M)


For those of you counting at home, that is $300M+ committed to average players during Wades tenure.
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sensy was around 5 years, $25-30M if memory serves, at some point during the 2011 season when he was playing well (or rather, playing beyond his actual level of ability). He wasn't worth it but they never restructured him so it didn't kill them
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Dallas94Ware


Joined: 20 Feb 2008
Posts: 4589
Location: Queens, NY
PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matts4313 wrote:
matt79511 wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
Dallas94Ware wrote:
Spencer is a marginal player who is worth far less than he will ask for. And paying to keep guys like him is exactly why this team is in cap debt. If you pay your Austins, Barbers, Ratliffs and Spencers, you end up an average team who overpaid for average players. Which is what thsi team has been for 3 years since they started overpaying for mediocre players.


First - I never said anything about Spencers sack totals or anything else. I just said his playing year was really good - IIRC he went to the probowl and may of even been an all pro. It was a very good year.

I said if you can sign him *CHEAP* <==operative word, I think you missed it) that it would be a good investment.

Secondly - I think you are highly confused when you said "Which is what thsi team has been for 3 years since they started overpaying for mediocre players". Most of those ridiculous contracts came 4+ years ago. Under Garrett, we have only given big contracts to Romo, Lee, Carr, Spencers franchise tag... and... ? ... Thats it.

It was the tenure before that where we gave out ~150+M to Roy Williams, Sensy, Barber, Ratliff, etc etc etc


The big contracts to Ratliff and Sensabaugh were both under Garrett. Ditto Spears, Free, Livings, Scandrick, Witten (although the last two have been fine so far)


I said Sensy, but I meant Hamlin. IIRC - Sensey didnt sign a huge deal, and when he retired it didnt effect our cap much at all.

From 2007 - 2010

Flo (42M)
Hamiln ($38M)
Austin ($57M)
Williams ($54M)
Guorode ($30M)
Columbo ($22M)
Barber ($45M)
Davis ($50M)


For those of you counting at home, that is $300M+ committed to average players during Wades tenure.


Davis was slightly overpriced, but he was paid as a potential OT. Colombo was a great pickup for the price, long term starter who wasn't great but far from bad and well above average. The others, I said on this very forum were bad pick ups or re-signs - and all of you called me crazy and insulted me to no end for daring to say such.

And as usual, I get to look back, smile, and subtley say I told you so. Razz
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RHS Ocho Cinco


Joined: 17 Aug 2008
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Location: Amarillo, TX
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@JasonLaCanfora: The Broncos will be releasing CB Champ Bailey, according to an NFL source. He was set to earn $9M this season with a cap # of $10M

Doesn't likely affect the Boys. But still weird to see former super-stars like this get released from their teams.
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The_Slamman


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 13732
Location: Las Vegas, NV
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dallas94Ware wrote:
Matts4313 wrote:
Spencer was arguably our best player in 2012. If we can get him cheap, it would be a smart investment.

I think Melton is all of our dream FA.


Spencer had an average year and benefitted from Ware flushing the QBs toward Spencer's side. Spencer is an average player that shined one season after how many very mediocre ones? And he only showed anything good in 2012 because of the down year of Ware - if Ware had the same explosiveness as we knew him to have, most of those Spencer sacks would have been Ware sacks. Instead, his injuries slowed him, and he fflushed the QB to Spencer's arms.

And know what? There's more to playing an edge rusher than sack totals. I'd rather have a guy that has 25 pressures and 6 sacks than a guy with 10 pressures and 12 sacks. Pressures cause turnovers more than attempts at strips. Sacks can result in a QB getting up and throwing a first down the next play anyway. Pressures cause mistakes. Sacks are usually the results of mistakes (by the opposing OL).

And being able to seal an edge against the run is just as important. Spencer has poor footing and gets beat around vs the run.

Spencer is a marginal player who is worth far less than he will ask for. And paying to keep guys like him is exactly why this team is in cap debt. If you pay your Austins, Barbers, Ratliffs and Spencers, you end up an average team who overpaid for average players. Which is what thsi team has been for 3 years since they started overpaying for mediocre players.

You pay for your Wares, your wittens, your Romos and your Lees. You don't pay for your average players who had a good season. You pay for great, you pay for leaders, you pay for winners. You don't pay for average players and one hit wonders.


Does anyone else find it ironic that this dude bashes on Spencer for being mediocre and yet argues that the cowboys fan base should be thankful that the cowboys have at least been mediocre?
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Dirk Gently


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt79511 wrote:

The big contracts to Ratliff and Sensabaugh were both under Garrett. Ditto Spears, Free, Livings, Scandrick, Witten (although the last two have been fine so far)


Spears and Livings were not big and Livings was ended prematurely by injury. Free was renegotiated (and roundly applauded at the time of ink). As you said, there have been no issues with Scandrick and Witten, monetarily.

Ratliff was a fairly clear case of malingering, so his malfeasance is at least partly to blame.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
matt79511 wrote:

The big contracts to Ratliff and Sensabaugh were both under Garrett. Ditto Spears, Free, Livings, Scandrick, Witten (although the last two have been fine so far)


Spears and Livings were not big and Livings was ended prematurely by injury. Free was renegotiated (and roundly applauded at the time of ink). As you said, there have been no issues with Scandrick and Witten, monetarily.

Ratliff was a fairly clear case of malingering, so his malfeasance is at least partly to blame.


The fact that the Bears just gave Meltons money to Ratliff tells you all you need to know.

Ratliff the player was still fine and could have been an all pro 3t for us. But Ratliff the person.... well bad things. Very bad things can be said about his choices.
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two players in free agents I would like to have work under Rod Marinelli. These players are Ziggy Hood and Everson Griffen; I believe that Hood was in the wrong defensive scheme and needs to get into a 4-3 defense that allows him to get up the field, which is what Dallas' defense does. Griffen I think just got off on the wrong foot in the NFL and needs a change of location, I believe he has the talent.
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Matts4313


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
There are two players in free agents I would like to have work under Rod Marinelli. These players are Ziggy Hood and Everson Griffen; I believe that Hood was in the wrong defensive scheme and needs to get into a 4-3 defense that allows him to get up the field, which is what Dallas' defense does. Griffen I think just got off on the wrong foot in the NFL and needs a change of location, I believe he has the talent.


Both those guys will be pretty cheap too.


Im all for adding some cheap depth to the team. Especially if we are losing Ware/Hatcher.
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plan9misfit wrote:

If we're able to go 11-5 or better, then Garrett and his staff deserve to be coaches of the damned decade.
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