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Let's Talk About Peyton Manning
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 8469
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
mke1010 wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
mke1010 wrote:
I should ask you the same.
You are calling the Osweiller pick a potentially wasted pick if Peyton sees out his contract. And I am bringing your attention to the fact that labeling the pick a waste is a bit stupid considering what Brock is already worth on the market.
who's going to pay a top 10 pick for him?


You are insane, even Matt Cassel only fetched a second rounder(and that was with Vrabel thrown in) after a pro bowl type year. Matt Flynn, Ryan Mallet, Chase Daniel, Kirk Cousins. These so called "value inflations" of backup QBs never happen.


The only way Os nets anything close to a first round pick, would be if Manning gets hurt quite early in the season, not enough to go on IR, but to keep him out for 6-8 games(much like Aaron Rodgers last year) then Brock comes in and plays well, but Manning comes back fully healthy and plays fantastically well in the playoffs


We'll see. Already O is worth a 1st round pick. Yes. You think one of the needy QB teams would not offer a late first round pick? You are insane if you think Brock was a wasted pick and comparing Matt Cassell to Brock Osweiller in terms of value? You must be smoking some pretty dope stuff.

Btw, my initial statement was that the Broncos will be able to get at at least a first round pick for Brock. And I stand unequivocally by that opinion.
My next statement was that he "could" net us a top 10 pick. I didnt say he WILL net us a top ten pick. Are there scenarios and circumstances that could make that a reality- yes.
Bottom line is that if the Broncos have to trade Osweiller, I predict he nets us a 1st round pick maybe not top 10 but for sure a 1st rounder.

No. No. No. No. No, he's not.

If Brock leaves via Free Agency, it will be a bigger blunder than anything McDaniels did in Denver. Drafting a player in the 2nd round and never playing him or re-signing him, would be considered a complete disgrace.

I don't believe any of the talk from both sides. I think Peyton plays 1 maybe 2 years, and no matter happens with him, Brock still re-signs.


You've obviously forgotten about the time McDaniels traded a future first for an early second round pick, used it on a sub 6 foot slot corner, and then one year later traded him for a 3rd string TE
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Broncos won't make the playoffs
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mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1742
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude there is a difference between corner back and quarter back. This is a quarter back driven league. Teams are always searching for competent QB play. Any quarter back who posses physical talent will get a chance in the NFL. You will never see a guy who could be a hall of famer fail to reach that status because he wasnt given a chance. Teams are always searching for franchise quarter backs and that is why more often than not, teams will over pay to get a QB. I reiterate these facts to emphasis that having a quarter back with pedigree, great physical tools and a potential to be great will always be a valuable asset.

Matt Flynn was drafted in the 7th round by Green Bay in 2009. He sat on the bench for 3 years playing very sparingly. On January 1, 2012, Flynn started the final game of the season against the Detroit Lions. He threw for 480 yards and 6 touchdowns in the 45-41 victory, both of which set single-game Green Bay Packers records.


On March 18, 2012, Flynn signed a three-year deal with the Seattle Seahawks worth $20.5 million, with $9 million guaranteed. This contract came largely due to a one game performance and perceived pedigree the Seahawks attributed to his development in Green Bay.
The Matt Flynn situation is one of many examples where prospective quarter backs generate a market that far exceeds their worth.

If Brock has a good pre-season and is lucky enough to play just one regular season game where he throws for 300 yards and 2 TDs with no INTs, some quarter back needy team will give the Broncos a 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th or 15th pick to take a shot on Osweiller.
You better believe it.


I think you fail to see the potential market for Osweiller. I also see that you fail to see that there are things the Broncos could do to maximize his value if they choose to trade him in the future.
We can make a bet on here if you wish. If and when the Broncos trade Osweiller, it will be for nothing less than a FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK.
Personally, I predict Osweiler is going no where and will be our quarter back in the future.

P.S: Your analogy with Alphonso bears zero resemblance to Osweiller.
First, McDaniels placed a value of a future #1 pick for a 2nd round pick. That value was set by an incompetent coach not the market.
Then McDaniels proceeded to showcase his investment and everyone saw that Alphonso Smith was not a very good player and no where near the value set by McDaniels. So of course, when it was time to deal Smith, his value had tanked.
With Osweiller, neither the Bronocs nor Osweiller have done anything to diminish his value. Furthermore, his value is on the rise not on the decline as was the case with Alphonso once the rest of the league saw his rookie season.
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JerseysFinest27


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 8173
Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
mke1010 wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
mke1010 wrote:
I should ask you the same.
You are calling the Osweiller pick a potentially wasted pick if Peyton sees out his contract. And I am bringing your attention to the fact that labeling the pick a waste is a bit stupid considering what Brock is already worth on the market.
who's going to pay a top 10 pick for him?


You are insane, even Matt Cassel only fetched a second rounder(and that was with Vrabel thrown in) after a pro bowl type year. Matt Flynn, Ryan Mallet, Chase Daniel, Kirk Cousins. These so called "value inflations" of backup QBs never happen.


The only way Os nets anything close to a first round pick, would be if Manning gets hurt quite early in the season, not enough to go on IR, but to keep him out for 6-8 games(much like Aaron Rodgers last year) then Brock comes in and plays well, but Manning comes back fully healthy and plays fantastically well in the playoffs


We'll see. Already O is worth a 1st round pick. Yes. You think one of the needy QB teams would not offer a late first round pick? You are insane if you think Brock was a wasted pick and comparing Matt Cassell to Brock Osweiller in terms of value? You must be smoking some pretty dope stuff.

Btw, my initial statement was that the Broncos will be able to get at at least a first round pick for Brock. And I stand unequivocally by that opinion.
My next statement was that he "could" net us a top 10 pick. I didnt say he WILL net us a top ten pick. Are there scenarios and circumstances that could make that a reality- yes.
Bottom line is that if the Broncos have to trade Osweiller, I predict he nets us a 1st round pick maybe not top 10 but for sure a 1st rounder.

No. No. No. No. No, he's not.

If Brock leaves via Free Agency, it will be a bigger blunder than anything McDaniels did in Denver. Drafting a player in the 2nd round and never playing him or re-signing him, would be considered a complete disgrace.

I don't believe any of the talk from both sides. I think Peyton plays 1 maybe 2 years, and no matter happens with him, Brock still re-signs.


You've obviously forgotten about the time McDaniels traded a future first for an early second round pick, used it on a sub 6 foot slot corner, and then one year later traded him for a 3rd string TE

At least those guys saw the field to prove they were trash. Brock wouldnt even see the field before leaving the team empty handed. Thats worse IMO.
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oldunclemark


Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Crown Point, Indiana
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coaches don't ever admit mistakes....and many timesd they don't think they ARE mkistakes.....most players don't either...

....I wouldn't get hung up on it..Its not about the coach.....to me.

I think we acquired game-changers on defense
If DeMarcus Ware isn't a game changer...there arent many...

our team let offensive starters walk to load up the defense with proven vets.
Lets see how it plays out..

I like our matchups with the offenses of SF and Seattle much better now
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Broncos_OTM


Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 863
Location: Westminster Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mke1010 wrote:
Dude there is a difference between corner back and quarter back. This is a quarter back driven league. Teams are always searching for competent QB play. Any quarter back who posses physical talent will get a chance in the NFL. You will never see a guy who could be a hall of famer fail to reach that status because he wasnt given a chance. Teams are always searching for franchise quarter backs and that is why more often than not, teams will over pay to get a QB. I reiterate these facts to emphasis that having a quarter back with pedigree, great physical tools and a potential to be great will always be a valuable asset.

Matt Flynn was drafted in the 7th round by Green Bay in 2009. He sat on the bench for 3 years playing very sparingly. On January 1, 2012, Flynn started the final game of the season against the Detroit Lions. He threw for 480 yards and 6 touchdowns in the 45-41 victory, both of which set single-game Greelalsrds.


On Mah 18, quanity lynn signed a three-year deal with the Seattle Seahawks worth $20.5 million, with $9 million guaranteed. This contract came largely due to a one game performance and perceived pedigree the Seahawks attributed to his development in Green Bay.
The Matt Flynn situation is one of many examples where prospective quarter backs generate a market that far exceeds their worth.

If Brock has a good pre-season and is lucky enough to play just one regular season game where he throws for 300 yards and 2 TDs with no INTs, some quarter back needy team will give the Broncos a 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th or 15th pick to take a shot on Osweiller.
You better believe it.


I think you fail to see the potential market for Osweiller. I also see that you fail to see that there are things the Broncos could do to maximize his value if they choose to trade him in the future.
We can make a bet on here if you wish. If and when the Broncos trade Osweiller, it will be for nothing less than a FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICK.
Personally, I predict Osweiler is going no where and will be our quarter back in the future.

P.S: Your analogy with Alphonso bears zero resemblance to Osweiller.
First, McDaniels placed a value of a future #1 pick for a 2nd round pick. That value was set by an incompetent coach not the market.
Then McDaniels proceeded to showcase his investment and everyone saw that Alphonso Smith was not a very good player and no where near the value set by McDaniels. So of course, when it was time to deal Smith, his value had tanked.
With Osweiller, neither the Bronocs nor Osweiller have done anything to diminish his value. Furthermore, his value is on the rise not on the decline as was the case with Alphonso once the rest of the league saw his rookie season.
Brocks worthworth is a unknown quanity, its subjective. I was alright with drafting him at the time and didn't think Peyton would see his contract through. However elway said it... No plan b and that is exactly what it was. I think looking back that it'd a bad pick as you need your early rounders to become starters brock is gonna have to get some quality play time and stats to get a first rounder in any desl
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Broncos_OTM


Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 863
Location: Westminster Colorado
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oldunclemark wrote:
Bill Polian built more than one Super Bowl team..

Who else has?

He's only overrated on message boards.

But don't fall into the trap that running is tough and passing is weak..

Our offense dominated the NFL last season until the final game much like the patriots in 2007

We beefed up the 'D'.

Its crazy to consider style changes on offense
I like then offense but I think they should be able to win it more then just one way, defense and running game.
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oldunclemark


Joined: 24 Mar 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Crown Point, Indiana
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is defense running game..good

Pass first..attack style bad...

Both win
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Sandman55


Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 148
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mke1010 wrote:


Matt Flynn was drafted in the 7th round by Green Bay in 2009. He sat on the bench for 3 years playing very sparingly. On January 1, 2012, Flynn started the final game of the season against the Detroit Lions. He threw for 480 yards and 6 touchdowns in the 45-41 victory, both of which set single-game Green Bay Packers records.


On March 18, 2012, Flynn signed a three-year deal with the Seattle Seahawks worth $20.5 million, with $9 million guaranteed. This contract came largely due to a one game performance and perceived pedigree the Seahawks attributed to his development in Green Bay.
The Matt Flynn situation is one of many examples where prospective quarter backs generate a market that far exceeds their worth.


Don't forget, Green Bay had first shopped Flynn hard and had no takers. They were reported to be expecting 2nd round or possibly even 1st round compensation. If true, they were seriously mistaken. For untested quarterbacks smart teams are more than happy to just wait for them to hit FA and then slightly overpay in a bidding war (with no draft choices lost) rather than trade away a high draft pick and ALSO sign them for good money.
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