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7DnBrnc53


Joined: 09 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
I really think you have to omit a large quantity of what Manning has done with Indy. That front office was inept at surrounding Manning with talent in free agency. They got complacent relying too much on Manning. I applaud Elway for doing the opposite. It would be easy to be complacent. I also think the Colts played it too safe in numerous drafts. For instance, they'd lose guys like edge and stokley and replace them with solid but unspectacular players like Addai and Anthony Gonzalez. They spent a large amount of resources trying to stay even than getting better. I don't know if it was that Polian is overatted or their scouting department was lacking. In my opinion in Manning's 12 plus years in Indy they did a good job fielding a competitive team but not so much building a Championship team.I'm not giving Manning a pass but I'm not gonna bury him it's somewhere in the middle.


These are very good points. Their defense was another example of this. Dungy went with a defensive scheme in the Tampa 2 that had to have certain types of players, but those guys weren't exactly the most talented. Look at CB Jason David in 2007. He goes to New Orleans from Indy, and is one of the biggest FA busts of all-time. He was too married to that scheme.

Speaking of Gonzalez, though, another draft mistake that they made in 07 was taking Arkansas OT Tony Ugoh to replace the retired Tarik Glenn. OT was a need, and Ugoh was rated higher than Ryan Harris that year. However, Harris has had a better career, and was still in the league last year.

The Colts waived Ugoh on September 8, 2010, and he retired less than two years later, after a disappointing career.
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AnAngryAmerican


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
I really think you have to omit a large quantity of what Manning has done with Indy. That front office was inept at surrounding Manning with talent in free agency. They got complacent relying too much on Manning. I applaud Elway for doing the opposite. It would be easy to be complacent. I also think the Colts played it too safe in numerous drafts. For instance, they'd lose guys like edge and stokley and replace them with solid but unspectacular players like Addai and Anthony Gonzalez. They spent a large amount of resources trying to stay even than getting better. I don't know if it was that Polian is overatted or their scouting department was lacking. In my opinion in Manning's 12 plus years in Indy they did a good job fielding a competitive team but not so much building a Championship team.I'm not giving Manning a pass but I'm not gonna bury him it's somewhere in the middle.


These are very good points. Their defense was another example of this. Dungy went with a defensive scheme in the Tampa 2 that had to have certain types of players, but those guys weren't exactly the most talented. Look at CB Jason David in 2007. He goes to New Orleans from Indy, and is one of the biggest FA busts of all-time. He was too married to that scheme.

Speaking of Gonzalez, though, another draft mistake that they made in 07 was taking Arkansas OT Tony Ugoh to replace the retired Tarik Glenn. OT was a need, and Ugoh was rated higher than Ryan Harris that year. However, Harris has had a better career, and was still in the league last year.

The Colts waived Ugoh on September 8, 2010, and he retired less than two years later, after a disappointing career.

There's no arguing that Bill Polian is one of the most overrated GMs of all time. Those who can do, those who can't work at ESPN.

But I think both of you are missing the larger point I was making in the OP - that Peyton-quarterbacked teams, the two he's had here and the 14 he had in Indy - can only win in within very narrow parameters and when things do not go perfectly, for whatever reason, a loss, usually a crushing one, is the result.

I think Elway recognizes this and the 2014 Broncos are going to look at lot different than the 2012 and 2013 teams.
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnAngryAmerican wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
I really think you have to omit a large quantity of what Manning has done with Indy. That front office was inept at surrounding Manning with talent in free agency. They got complacent relying too much on Manning. I applaud Elway for doing the opposite. It would be easy to be complacent. I also think the Colts played it too safe in numerous drafts. For instance, they'd lose guys like edge and stokley and replace them with solid but unspectacular players like Addai and Anthony Gonzalez. They spent a large amount of resources trying to stay even than getting better. I don't know if it was that Polian is overatted or their scouting department was lacking. In my opinion in Manning's 12 plus years in Indy they did a good job fielding a competitive team but not so much building a Championship team.I'm not giving Manning a pass but I'm not gonna bury him it's somewhere in the middle.


These are very good points. Their defense was another example of this. Dungy went with a defensive scheme in the Tampa 2 that had to have certain types of players, but those guys weren't exactly the most talented. Look at CB Jason David in 2007. He goes to New Orleans from Indy, and is one of the biggest FA busts of all-time. He was too married to that scheme.

Speaking of Gonzalez, though, another draft mistake that they made in 07 was taking Arkansas OT Tony Ugoh to replace the retired Tarik Glenn. OT was a need, and Ugoh was rated higher than Ryan Harris that year. However, Harris has had a better career, and was still in the league last year.

The Colts waived Ugoh on September 8, 2010, and he retired less than two years later, after a disappointing career.

There's no arguing that Bill Polian is one of the most overrated GMs of all time. Those who can do, those who can't work at ESPN.

But I think both of you are missing the larger point I was making in the OP - that Peyton-quarterbacked teams, the two he's had here and the 14 he had in Indy - can only win in within very narrow parameters and when things do not go perfectly, for whatever reason, a loss, usually a crushing one, is the result.

I think Elway recognizes this and the 2014 Broncos are going to look at lot different than the 2012 and 2013 teams.

I want us to treat every game as if it were the playoffs, that way we can't come up with the excuse of not being a "playoff team" come January.


We'll let Montee and the defense win us the game every week, then if we get into the 3rd and 4th quarters, if we need a spark, then we let Peyton strutt his stuff.

Manning threw 41 passes a game in 2013, we should seek to shave at least 10 off that figure.
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Winder23


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 4253
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
I really think you have to omit a large quantity of what Manning has done with Indy. That front office was inept at surrounding Manning with talent in free agency. They got complacent relying too much on Manning. I applaud Elway for doing the opposite. It would be easy to be complacent. I also think the Colts played it too safe in numerous drafts. For instance, they'd lose guys like edge and stokley and replace them with solid but unspectacular players like Addai and Anthony Gonzalez. They spent a large amount of resources trying to stay even than getting better. I don't know if it was that Polian is overatted or their scouting department was lacking. In my opinion in Manning's 12 plus years in Indy they did a good job fielding a competitive team but not so much building a Championship team.I'm not giving Manning a pass but I'm not gonna bury him it's somewhere in the middle.


These are very good points. Their defense was another example of this. Dungy went with a defensive scheme in the Tampa 2 that had to have certain types of players, but those guys weren't exactly the most talented. Look at CB Jason David in 2007. He goes to New Orleans from Indy, and is one of the biggest FA busts of all-time. He was too married to that scheme.

Speaking of Gonzalez, though, another draft mistake that they made in 07 was taking Arkansas OT Tony Ugoh to replace the retired Tarik Glenn. OT was a need, and Ugoh was rated higher than Ryan Harris that year. However, Harris has had a better career, and was still in the league last year.

The Colts waived Ugoh on September 8, 2010, and he retired less than two years later, after a disappointing career.

There's no arguing that Bill Polian is one of the most overrated GMs of all time. Those who can do, those who can't work at ESPN.

But I think both of you are missing the larger point I was making in the OP - that Peyton-quarterbacked teams, the two he's had here and the 14 he had in Indy - can only win in within very narrow parameters and when things do not go perfectly, for whatever reason, a loss, usually a crushing one, is the result.

I think Elway recognizes this and the 2014 Broncos are going to look at lot different than the 2012 and 2013 teams.

I want us to treat every game as if it were the playoffs, that way we can't come up with the excuse of not being a "playoff team" come January.


We'll let Montee and the defense win us the game every week, then if we get into the 3rd and 4th quarters, if we need a spark, then we let Peyton strutt his stuff.

Manning threw 41 passes a game in 2013, we should seek to shave at least 10 off that figure.
Paul Mac is exactly right imo. This team needs to grind out games a little more and develop a toughness. I think we saw a glimpse of that in the playoffs, but early blunders and a tough Seattle D forced the Broncos into early panic mode.

I[/b]
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broncofan48


Joined: 17 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winder23 wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
I really think you have to omit a large quantity of what Manning has done with Indy. That front office was inept at surrounding Manning with talent in free agency. They got complacent relying too much on Manning. I applaud Elway for doing the opposite. It would be easy to be complacent. I also think the Colts played it too safe in numerous drafts. For instance, they'd lose guys like edge and stokley and replace them with solid but unspectacular players like Addai and Anthony Gonzalez. They spent a large amount of resources trying to stay even than getting better. I don't know if it was that Polian is overatted or their scouting department was lacking. In my opinion in Manning's 12 plus years in Indy they did a good job fielding a competitive team but not so much building a Championship team.I'm not giving Manning a pass but I'm not gonna bury him it's somewhere in the middle.


These are very good points. Their defense was another example of this. Dungy went with a defensive scheme in the Tampa 2 that had to have certain types of players, but those guys weren't exactly the most talented. Look at CB Jason David in 2007. He goes to New Orleans from Indy, and is one of the biggest FA busts of all-time. He was too married to that scheme.

Speaking of Gonzalez, though, another draft mistake that they made in 07 was taking Arkansas OT Tony Ugoh to replace the retired Tarik Glenn. OT was a need, and Ugoh was rated higher than Ryan Harris that year. However, Harris has had a better career, and was still in the league last year.

The Colts waived Ugoh on September 8, 2010, and he retired less than two years later, after a disappointing career.

There's no arguing that Bill Polian is one of the most overrated GMs of all time. Those who can do, those who can't work at ESPN.

But I think both of you are missing the larger point I was making in the OP - that Peyton-quarterbacked teams, the two he's had here and the 14 he had in Indy - can only win in within very narrow parameters and when things do not go perfectly, for whatever reason, a loss, usually a crushing one, is the result.

I think Elway recognizes this and the 2014 Broncos are going to look at lot different than the 2012 and 2013 teams.

I want us to treat every game as if it were the playoffs, that way we can't come up with the excuse of not being a "playoff team" come January.


We'll let Montee and the defense win us the game every week, then if we get into the 3rd and 4th quarters, if we need a spark, then we let Peyton strutt his stuff.

Manning threw 41 passes a game in 2013, we should seek to shave at least 10 off that figure.
Paul Mac is exactly right imo. This team needs to grind out games a little more and develop a toughness. I think we saw a glimpse of that in the playoffs, but early blunders and a tough Seattle D forced the Broncos into early panic mode.

I[/b]


Well with the schedule we will play this year, come playoff time we should have a good idea on how the team will perform against the best of the best.
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oldunclemark


Joined: 24 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Polian built more than one Super Bowl team..

Who else has?

He's only overrated on message boards.

But don't fall into the trap that running is tough and passing is weak..

Our offense dominated the NFL last season until the final game much like the patriots in 2007

We beefed up the 'D'.

Its crazy to consider style changes on offense
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The Helicopter


Joined: 31 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If next season ends on the same note as the last two, do you think we keep everything intact and try again? Or would one anticipate and/or expect major changes for the 2015 season?
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oldunclemark


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HC, I would say that we DID make major changes (at least 5 new free agent starters) off a 15-4 team.

But if next season goes exactly the way this season goes..
13-3....AFC title...Decisive Super Bowl loss..

No, I'd say we're close and would not make major changes for 2015.
We are very close.

I didn't see the 19th game of last season as being more telling that the first 18. I think we're on of the 4 or 5 best teams in the NFL
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mke1010


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://twitter.com/E_Sanders88/status/453631865664966658/photo/1
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ThePrimeTime12


Joined: 11 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:

I want us to treat every game as if it were the playoffs, that way we can't come up with the excuse of not being a "playoff team" come January.


We'll let Montee and the defense win us the game every week, then if we get into the 3rd and 4th quarters, if we need a spark, then we let Peyton strutt his stuff.

Manning threw 41 passes a game in 2013, we should seek to shave at least 10 off that figure.

I agree. Not necessarily let Montee win but let the running game and defense carry us and let Peyton be Peyton when necessary.

The thing with Peyton and all great QBs is that they overachieve in the regular season and then they come back down to earth in the post-season. People tend to consider that to be a choke since they aren't playing well in the post-season but maybe it isn't, maybe it is just the fact that they finally went up against a dominant team that can actually take away a team's biggest strength and put them back on earth.

Peyton's only Superbowl victory was his worst playoff run post-2003. They won scoring low all post-season long but they won because that defense carried them sans the AFC Championship game.

If you take a look at what happened last season.... Von Miller, Ryan Clady, Chris Harris, Derek Wolfe, Rahim Moore, and I am sure I am missing some were all ruled out for the season and were out for the playoffs. That is 5 starters right there that and some of them are considered stars. We still got to the Superbowl game with that in the way. Looking back, we actually overachieved, but we were expected to win the Superbowl and we failed to do so and everyone thinks we underachieved because of it.

Denver needs to do what they did against San Diego and New England in the playoffs. We need to just control the clock/tempo instead of constantly scoring as fast as they can. I think they should only use the hurry up when necessary (matchup on defense, 2 minute drill, etc.) opposed to every chance they get.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThePrimeTime12 wrote:
paul-mac wrote:

I want us to treat every game as if it were the playoffs, that way we can't come up with the excuse of not being a "playoff team" come January.


We'll let Montee and the defense win us the game every week, then if we get into the 3rd and 4th quarters, if we need a spark, then we let Peyton strutt his stuff.

Manning threw 41 passes a game in 2013, we should seek to shave at least 10 off that figure.

I agree. Not necessarily let Montee win but let the running game and defense carry us and let Peyton be Peyton when necessary.

The thing with Peyton and all great QBs is that they overachieve in the regular season and then they come back down to earth in the post-season. People tend to consider that to be a choke since they aren't playing well in the post-season but maybe it isn't, maybe it is just the fact that they finally went up against a dominant team that can actually take away a team's biggest strength and put them back on earth.

Peyton's only Superbowl victory was his worst playoff run post-2003. They won scoring low all post-season long but they won because that defense carried them sans the AFC Championship game.

If you take a look at what happened last season.... Von Miller, Ryan Clady, Chris Harris, Derek Wolfe, Rahim Moore, and I am sure I am missing some were all ruled out for the season and were out for the playoffs. That is 5 starters right there that and some of them are considered stars. We still got to the Superbowl game with that in the way. Looking back, we actually overachieved, but we were expected to win the Superbowl and we failed to do so and everyone thinks we underachieved because of it.

Denver needs to do what they did against San Diego and New England in the playoffs. We need to just control the clock/tempo instead of constantly scoring as fast as they can. I think they should only use the hurry up when necessary (matchup on defense, 2 minute drill, etc.) opposed to every chance they get.


IMO, Denver didn't overachieve or underachieve this season. They were one of the top four teams along with the Seahawks, 49ers, and Patriots. It wouldn't have surprised me at all if it were a 49ers/Patriots Super Bowl all involved were quality teams capable of making and winning a Super Bowl. The Seahawks came out on top this year and that's all that is really to it, IMO.
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mke1010


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winder23 wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
AnAngryAmerican wrote:
7DnBrnc53 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
I really think you have to omit a large quantity of what Manning has done with Indy. That front office was inept at surrounding Manning with talent in free agency. They got complacent relying too much on Manning. I applaud Elway for doing the opposite. It would be easy to be complacent. I also think the Colts played it too safe in numerous drafts. For instance, they'd lose guys like edge and stokley and replace them with solid but unspectacular players like Addai and Anthony Gonzalez. They spent a large amount of resources trying to stay even than getting better. I don't know if it was that Polian is overatted or their scouting department was lacking. In my opinion in Manning's 12 plus years in Indy they did a good job fielding a competitive team but not so much building a Championship team.I'm not giving Manning a pass but I'm not gonna bury him it's somewhere in the middle.


These are very good points. Their defense was another example of this. Dungy went with a defensive scheme in the Tampa 2 that had to have certain types of players, but those guys weren't exactly the most talented. Look at CB Jason David in 2007. He goes to New Orleans from Indy, and is one of the biggest FA busts of all-time. He was too married to that scheme.

Speaking of Gonzalez, though, another draft mistake that they made in 07 was taking Arkansas OT Tony Ugoh to replace the retired Tarik Glenn. OT was a need, and Ugoh was rated higher than Ryan Harris that year. However, Harris has had a better career, and was still in the league last year.

The Colts waived Ugoh on September 8, 2010, and he retired less than two years later, after a disappointing career.

There's no arguing that Bill Polian is one of the most overrated GMs of all time. Those who can do, those who can't work at ESPN.

But I think both of you are missing the larger point I was making in the OP - that Peyton-quarterbacked teams, the two he's had here and the 14 he had in Indy - can only win in within very narrow parameters and when things do not go perfectly, for whatever reason, a loss, usually a crushing one, is the result.

I think Elway recognizes this and the 2014 Broncos are going to look at lot different than the 2012 and 2013 teams.

I want us to treat every game as if it were the playoffs, that way we can't come up with the excuse of not being a "playoff team" come January.


We'll let Montee and the defense win us the game every week, then if we get into the 3rd and 4th quarters, if we need a spark, then we let Peyton strutt his stuff.

Manning threw 41 passes a game in 2013, we should seek to shave at least 10 off that figure.
Paul Mac is exactly right imo. This team needs to grind out games a little more and develop a toughness. I think we saw a glimpse of that in the playoffs, but early blunders and a tough Seattle D forced the Broncos into early panic mode.

I[/b]


I concur. We need to go back to the mindset of when we had TD and Elway. Our running game scared teams just as much as Elway.

Best move going forward is to draft Su'a in the 1st round of this draft. With Ramirez, Su'a and Vasquez on the inside along with Franklin and Clady on the outside, our O line would bully almost every opposing Line at the line of scrimmage.

This draft is deep at Receiver. We can find one in the mid rounds. We can get a Corner and MLB in rounds 2 and 3.What we cant get in the latter rounds is a pro bowl type dominant Guard who can come in and play right away to a high level.

I think if we can can run the ball at will with domination, it will allow us to be much more balanced and withstand a bad day from our passing offense. Only way for us to have a dominant run game is to have an overwhelmingly superior O line. Montee Ball maybe a good RB but even at his best he is no TD.
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hibdib31


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mke1010 wrote:
https://twitter.com/E_Sanders88/status/453631865664966658/photo/1


Haha Peyton is such a goober.
Damn, Julius looks huge standing next to Sanders!
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7DnBrnc53


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:46 am    Post subject: Osweiler Reply with quote

Evidently, the Denver post expects Brock Osweiler to leave as a FA, not stay and wait to be Manning's successor:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7450/brock-osweiler

This assumes, though, that Manning won't retire until early 2017 (he is under contract through the 2016 season). I don't see him playing that long. He probably will play two more years, at most.
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paul-mac


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Osweiler Reply with quote

7DnBrnc53 wrote:
Evidently, the Denver post expects Brock Osweiler to leave as a FA, not stay and wait to be Manning's successor:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7450/brock-osweiler

This assumes, though, that Manning won't retire until early 2017 (he is under contract through the 2016 season). I don't see him playing that long. He probably will play two more years, at most.


James Merilatt suggested on twitter that Manning is intending to play his contract out should his health allow it.
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