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Chocolateman78


Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 5306
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
Chocolateman78 wrote:
His hip injury came when Muhammed Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson sandwiched him in the pocket, did it not?

Problem is we don't have a RT who can pass protect. I don't attribute our rushing successes to Stingley in the last 2 games. Houston and Jacksonville were 23rd and 29th against the run respectively and we all knew Houston wasn't trying That had more to do with us finally running the ball well, than Stingley or the previous offensive regime. The Cardinals, conversely were the top team against the run statistically last season (I find this stat interesting because they improved dramatically against the run AFTER Ray Horton left. They were 28th against the run during Horton's final season. This fits with my concerns about Horton's defense's not stopping the run.)

Point is if we plan on getting better we can't stick with status quo or a stop gap at RT. You're going to have to invest. More and more DCs are lining primary pass rushers up on RT's because they know that's a potential mismatch.


Wilkerson came off of the LTs side. Razz. And the problem starts with Locker being injury prone. You can lessen the frequency of your QB being hit, but you cannot stop it. Especially one that takes off and runs.

Just because you invest big money or a high draft pick on a player doesn't guarantee that they will perform. Levitre underperformed for most of the season in run blocking.

Not saying Stingily is going to perform great either. Just saying I think he has performed well enough with the limited opportunities that he has been given to merit a shot at it before we going investing a lot in the position. Not saying we shouldn't bring in an aging vet for cheap to compete with him.


who cares where Wilkerson came from? the point is if you have an injury prone QB, you should protect the crap outta him if you want him to be your franchise guy.

Yea sure Levitre underperformed, but does that mean we shouldn't look to invest in quality talent? Kamerion Wimbley didn't work out as a pass rusher, I don't hear anyone using that as reason for not selecting Khalil Mack or Anthony Barr. Yea it would be convenient if Stingley could hold down the position, but I haven't seen anything that suggests that he's more than what he is... a career back up with limited starting potential.
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KingTitan


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chocolateman78 wrote:
His hip injury came when Muhammed Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson sandwiched him in the pocket, did it not? Also the hit that sidelined him for 5 weeks with a torn shoulder in 2012 was caused by a sack in the pocket. So to say his injuries didn't come from hits in the pocket is flat wrong. The Lisfranc injury was fluke, the others were not.

Problem is we don't have a RT who can pass protect. I don't attribute our rushing successes to Stingley in the last 2 games. Houston and Jacksonville were 23rd and 29th against the run respectively and we all knew Houston wasn't trying That had more to do with us finally running the ball well, than Stingley or the previous offensive regime. The Cardinals, conversely were the top team against the run statistically last season (I find this stat interesting because they improved dramatically against the run AFTER Ray Horton left. They were 28th against the run during Horton's final season. This fits with my concerns about Horton's defense's not stopping the run.)

Point is if we plan on getting better we can't stick with status quo or a stop gap at RT. You're going to have to invest. More and more DCs are lining primary pass rushers up on RT's because they know that's a potential mismatch.



Like was said earlier, I'm not saying you can just place anyone out there.
Also, We can have the great wall of china out there, and Locker can get injured no matter what.

My main point is that Locker's injury history wouldn't effect who I put at RT.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sack in the Jacksonville game that everyone remembers was Stingily's only "QB Pressure" given up on 30 pass attempts.

Again, not saying he will be great. Just saying that we shouldn't count him out because of where he was drafted.
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TitanSS


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chocolateman78 wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
Chocolateman78 wrote:
His hip injury came when Muhammed Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson sandwiched him in the pocket, did it not?

Problem is we don't have a RT who can pass protect. I don't attribute our rushing successes to Stingley in the last 2 games. Houston and Jacksonville were 23rd and 29th against the run respectively and we all knew Houston wasn't trying That had more to do with us finally running the ball well, than Stingley or the previous offensive regime. The Cardinals, conversely were the top team against the run statistically last season (I find this stat interesting because they improved dramatically against the run AFTER Ray Horton left. They were 28th against the run during Horton's final season. This fits with my concerns about Horton's defense's not stopping the run.)

Point is if we plan on getting better we can't stick with status quo or a stop gap at RT. You're going to have to invest. More and more DCs are lining primary pass rushers up on RT's because they know that's a potential mismatch.


Wilkerson came off of the LTs side. Razz. And the problem starts with Locker being injury prone. You can lessen the frequency of your QB being hit, but you cannot stop it. Especially one that takes off and runs.

Just because you invest big money or a high draft pick on a player doesn't guarantee that they will perform. Levitre underperformed for most of the season in run blocking.

Not saying Stingily is going to perform great either. Just saying I think he has performed well enough with the limited opportunities that he has been given to merit a shot at it before we going investing a lot in the position. Not saying we shouldn't bring in an aging vet for cheap to compete with him.


who cares where Wilkerson came from? the point is if you have an injury prone QB, you should protect the crap outta him if you want him to be your franchise guy.

Yea sure Levitre underperformed, but does that mean we shouldn't look to invest in quality talent? Kamerion Wimbley didn't work out as a pass rusher, I don't hear anyone using that as reason for not selecting Khalil Mack or Anthony Barr. Yea it would be convenient if Stingley could hold down the position, but I haven't seen anything that suggests that he's more than what he is... a career back up with limited starting potential.


You obviously should care where Wilkerson came from. Your argument is we need to invest more at RT to protect our injury prone QB, when it was our former pro bowl LT who missed the block that injured our injury prone QB. The argument that we have to invest a ton into our OL to protect an injury-prone QB who has been below-average at best is invalid to me. You can put 5 pro bowlers up there and he is still going to take sacks.

Point is we need a less injury prone QB or it won't matter who's up front.

Stingily has performed well with very limited opportunities. I'm not saying he doesn't need to be tested before he's given the reins as a starter, but to declare that he will never been more than a career backup is ridiculous. He's started in 4 games and looked very well in each of them and because we only have a 6th round selection invested in him and he hasn't surpassed Stewart, who was once considered one of the better OTs in the league, you're brushing him off as a career back up??

He's started 4 games and given up 2 sacks. You act like he's Eugene Amano and is getting dominated in the pass and run game whereas he has actually performed very well in run blocking and for the most part he was been pretty good in pass protection as well. All young players are going to make mistakes. He had a lot fewer mistakes than Warmack did in his first two games last season. They are only two drafts apart. Do we need to invest more in RG also?
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Chocolateman78


Joined: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 5306
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TitanSS wrote:
Chocolateman78 wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
Chocolateman78 wrote:
His hip injury came when Muhammed Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson sandwiched him in the pocket, did it not?

Problem is we don't have a RT who can pass protect. I don't attribute our rushing successes to Stingley in the last 2 games. Houston and Jacksonville were 23rd and 29th against the run respectively and we all knew Houston wasn't trying That had more to do with us finally running the ball well, than Stingley or the previous offensive regime. The Cardinals, conversely were the top team against the run statistically last season (I find this stat interesting because they improved dramatically against the run AFTER Ray Horton left. They were 28th against the run during Horton's final season. This fits with my concerns about Horton's defense's not stopping the run.)

Point is if we plan on getting better we can't stick with status quo or a stop gap at RT. You're going to have to invest. More and more DCs are lining primary pass rushers up on RT's because they know that's a potential mismatch.


Wilkerson came off of the LTs side. Razz. And the problem starts with Locker being injury prone. You can lessen the frequency of your QB being hit, but you cannot stop it. Especially one that takes off and runs.

Just because you invest big money or a high draft pick on a player doesn't guarantee that they will perform. Levitre underperformed for most of the season in run blocking.

Not saying Stingily is going to perform great either. Just saying I think he has performed well enough with the limited opportunities that he has been given to merit a shot at it before we going investing a lot in the position. Not saying we shouldn't bring in an aging vet for cheap to compete with him.


who cares where Wilkerson came from? the point is if you have an injury prone QB, you should protect the crap outta him if you want him to be your franchise guy.

Yea sure Levitre underperformed, but does that mean we shouldn't look to invest in quality talent? Kamerion Wimbley didn't work out as a pass rusher, I don't hear anyone using that as reason for not selecting Khalil Mack or Anthony Barr. Yea it would be convenient if Stingley could hold down the position, but I haven't seen anything that suggests that he's more than what he is... a career back up with limited starting potential.


You obviously should care where Wilkerson came from. Your argument is we need to invest more at RT to protect our injury prone QB, when it was our former pro bowl LT who missed the block that injured our injury prone QB. The argument that we have to invest a ton into our OL to protect an injury-prone QB who has been below-average at best is invalid to me. You can put 5 pro bowlers up there and he is still going to take sacks.

Point is we need a less injury prone QB or it won't matter who's up front.

Stingily has performed well with very limited opportunities. I'm not saying he doesn't need to be tested before he's given the reins as a starter, but to declare that he will never been more than a career backup is ridiculous. He's started in 4 games and looked very well in each of them and because we only have a 6th round selection invested in him and he hasn't surpassed Stewart, who was once considered one of the better OTs in the league, you're brushing him off as a career back up??

He's started 4 games and given up 2 sacks. You act like he's Eugene Amano and is getting dominated in the pass and run game whereas he has actually performed very well in run blocking and for the most part he was been pretty good in pass protection as well. All young players are going to make mistakes. He had a lot fewer mistakes than Warmack did in his first two games last season. They are only two drafts apart. Do we need to invest more in RG also?


No my point is we can't settle for stop gaps on the o-line. Because maybe next year that pass rusher does come from the right side.

Again I attribute the running game in the final 2 games to the fact that the Texans and Jags both suck stopping the run. I'm not saying he's Amano, but you're overrating what he did in the last 2 games. And honestly until the end of the season he wasn't even the main swing tackle. Mike Otto was.

I write him off because I don't see the same ceiling you do. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't get a chance, but I don't think you look at this situation and move RT down as a need. I don't think you go into the offseason with Byron Stingley penciled in as your front runner. I'd be disappointed and skeptical if the only moves they make at RT was a Barry richardson, Rob Turner like scrap heap signing to just compete with Stingley.

Ultimately though, I think we're gonna draft a tackle and sign a vet.
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MdTitansFan56


Joined: 31 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chocolateman78 wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
Chocolateman78 wrote:
TitanSS wrote:
Chocolateman78 wrote:
His hip injury came when Muhammed Wilkerson and Sheldon Richardson sandwiched him in the pocket, did it not?

Problem is we don't have a RT who can pass protect. I don't attribute our rushing successes to Stingley in the last 2 games. Houston and Jacksonville were 23rd and 29th against the run respectively and we all knew Houston wasn't trying That had more to do with us finally running the ball well, than Stingley or the previous offensive regime. The Cardinals, conversely were the top team against the run statistically last season (I find this stat interesting because they improved dramatically against the run AFTER Ray Horton left. They were 28th against the run during Horton's final season. This fits with my concerns about Horton's defense's not stopping the run.)

Point is if we plan on getting better we can't stick with status quo or a stop gap at RT. You're going to have to invest. More and more DCs are lining primary pass rushers up on RT's because they know that's a potential mismatch.


Wilkerson came off of the LTs side. Razz. And the problem starts with Locker being injury prone. You can lessen the frequency of your QB being hit, but you cannot stop it. Especially one that takes off and runs.

Just because you invest big money or a high draft pick on a player doesn't guarantee that they will perform. Levitre underperformed for most of the season in run blocking.

Not saying Stingily is going to perform great either. Just saying I think he has performed well enough with the limited opportunities that he has been given to merit a shot at it before we going investing a lot in the position. Not saying we shouldn't bring in an aging vet for cheap to compete with him.


who cares where Wilkerson came from? the point is if you have an injury prone QB, you should protect the crap outta him if you want him to be your franchise guy.

Yea sure Levitre underperformed, but does that mean we shouldn't look to invest in quality talent? Kamerion Wimbley didn't work out as a pass rusher, I don't hear anyone using that as reason for not selecting Khalil Mack or Anthony Barr. Yea it would be convenient if Stingley could hold down the position, but I haven't seen anything that suggests that he's more than what he is... a career back up with limited starting potential.


You obviously should care where Wilkerson came from. Your argument is we need to invest more at RT to protect our injury prone QB, when it was our former pro bowl LT who missed the block that injured our injury prone QB. The argument that we have to invest a ton into our OL to protect an injury-prone QB who has been below-average at best is invalid to me. You can put 5 pro bowlers up there and he is still going to take sacks.

Point is we need a less injury prone QB or it won't matter who's up front.

Stingily has performed well with very limited opportunities. I'm not saying he doesn't need to be tested before he's given the reins as a starter, but to declare that he will never been more than a career backup is ridiculous. He's started in 4 games and looked very well in each of them and because we only have a 6th round selection invested in him and he hasn't surpassed Stewart, who was once considered one of the better OTs in the league, you're brushing him off as a career back up??

He's started 4 games and given up 2 sacks. You act like he's Eugene Amano and is getting dominated in the pass and run game whereas he has actually performed very well in run blocking and for the most part he was been pretty good in pass protection as well. All young players are going to make mistakes. He had a lot fewer mistakes than Warmack did in his first two games last season. They are only two drafts apart. Do we need to invest more in RG also?


No my point is we can't settle for stop gaps on the o-line. Because maybe next year that pass rusher does come from the right side.

Again I attribute the running game in the final 2 games to the fact that the Texans and Jags both suck stopping the run. I'm not saying he's Amano, but you're overrating what he did in the last 2 games. And honestly until the end of the season he wasn't even the main swing tackle. Mike Otto was.

I write him off because I don't see the same ceiling you do. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't get a chance, but I don't think you look at this situation and move RT down as a need. I don't think you go into the offseason with Byron Stingley penciled in as your front runner. I'd be disappointed and skeptical if the only moves they make at RT was a Barry richardson, Rob Turner like scrap heap signing to just compete with Stingley.

Ultimately though, I think we're gonna draft a tackle and sign a vet.


Plot twist the signing just for competition wins the spot somehow and we cut Roos as a result!

I wouldn't rule out RT at 11. Some mocks have Jake Matthews falling which would be a dream to me. I know there are some pretty good ones via Free Agency as well. I don't think they just let it go. Also who knows if they even cut Stewart. I really think they will and should but who knows. I'm ready for free agency
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UTMoc10


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people really underrate Stingily because the last memory of him was that one QB pressure. You can't hold it against him that he played against poor run defenses. He played every snap he had the opportunity and played well. They started him over Otto for a reason.
He is really athletic. 6-5, 318 and ran a 4.86 coming out of college. He learned under Hopkins, Munch. I think we should at least give him a chance to win the role. He actually recorded 50 pancake blocks as a LT at Louisville in 2010. Maybe sign a cheaper FA to come in and compete for the job.

Just because you draft a player in the 1st round doesn't mean he will be the next great OT. Say we don't keep Stingily, there are a lot of good OT's in the draft. I feel like drafting one at 11 would be a big mistake. At very least I wouldn't take an OT until around #18-#20 if we could trade down.

We could probably get one of Lewan/Martin/Kouandjio at #18 in a trade down.
Antonio Richardson in the 2nd.
Morgan Moses in the 2nd/3rd.
James Hurst in the 3rd.
Schofield in the 4th/5th.

Lots of good OT prospects that would make us spend our 1st round pick for the 2nd year in a row on an OL.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted one either. In the 2015 season we likely have two new tackles so it's not unrealistic.

Just saying he has played very well in 4 games against NFL teams. Regardless of who they were. Given the chance I feel like he has given no reason to date that we can't assume he has potential to be a solid starter.
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J.Redd10


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I for one want Greg Robinson. The Kid reminds me so much of Jason Peters LT of the eagles. He's stupid athletic;a beast in the run game. He gets to the second level & plays with Power & nastiness. We need to be able to protect our QB & run the ball at will in order to be a contending team.
Stewart best days are behind him & can only be refined if Doc Brown invents a Flux capacitor.
Roos has about 3 great seasons left of High level play.
GIve me Robinson for the WIN Cool
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