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Dirk Gently


Joined: 04 Jun 2008
Posts: 6124
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TD-ES-JJ wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
TD-ES-JJ wrote:
So a massive run stopper who can absorb two blockers and keep the MLB clean and free to run to the ball doesn't fit the scheme. Not knocking you Dez, but that is a silly scheme. How about the idea of getting the best Dlineman you can find and getting them on the field and putting together a scheme to best utilize your talent.

I think its lazy and reckless to pass up talent because your coordinator doesn't know how to adjust his "scheme" to fit his talent.


Hey, I'd be all for taking Nix. Just going by what I've read and heard.

Then again, Nix did sustain a knee injury in November...with as often as people complain about getting talented players who can't seem to stay on the field I'd imagine some wouldn't want to take him anyway.




When looking at what kind of DT's Kiffin/Marinelli have had on their rosters during their careers as DC, I'd say getting anyone above 310 is a long shot. Sad, since I really would love getting DaQuan Jones. But their scheme simply is all about having quick twitch guys who get up field fast and can be aggressive one gap penetraters instead of occupy blockers, that's what they've been coaching their whole carieer and I don't see them wanting to adjust that going into a contract year. Rarely that you even see 305+ guys on their rosters as far as I know.

- But that is where you have to trust that your GM says we should take the guy anyway if he's clearly the BPA, you know.. like they did with Floyd. Oh wait.. Laughing I'd say the chances is pretty big that Jerry Jones will listen a lot to what kind of players his coaches wants to the scheme, and Kiffin/Marinelli just loves their small quick twitch guys.. If they don't consider Floyd a good enough fit for taking in the top 20, they wouldn't have any idea what to do with Nix.

I'd love having a DC that is able to just grab the BPA and make the guy fit somewhere. But I don't think that is something we have right now.. Maybe Eberflus could help that, with his experience from multiple schemes?


You are probably right. It just disappointing to think that those old fossils that coach this team are locked into a defensive scheme from 15+ years ago that offenses will destroy under the current league rules.


Would that be the defensive scheme that just destroyed the best offense in the NFL? According to Pete Carroll, yes it would.

It's not the scheme, it's the fact that the scheme is predicated on penetration by 4 defensive linemen and we played several games with 5 or more of those out and 2-3 more playing injured.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
TD-ES-JJ wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
TD-ES-JJ wrote:
So a massive run stopper who can absorb two blockers and keep the MLB clean and free to run to the ball doesn't fit the scheme. Not knocking you Dez, but that is a silly scheme. How about the idea of getting the best Dlineman you can find and getting them on the field and putting together a scheme to best utilize your talent.

I think its lazy and reckless to pass up talent because your coordinator doesn't know how to adjust his "scheme" to fit his talent.


Hey, I'd be all for taking Nix. Just going by what I've read and heard.

Then again, Nix did sustain a knee injury in November...with as often as people complain about getting talented players who can't seem to stay on the field I'd imagine some wouldn't want to take him anyway.




When looking at what kind of DT's Kiffin/Marinelli have had on their rosters during their careers as DC, I'd say getting anyone above 310 is a long shot. Sad, since I really would love getting DaQuan Jones. But their scheme simply is all about having quick twitch guys who get up field fast and can be aggressive one gap penetraters instead of occupy blockers, that's what they've been coaching their whole carieer and I don't see them wanting to adjust that going into a contract year. Rarely that you even see 305+ guys on their rosters as far as I know.

- But that is where you have to trust that your GM says we should take the guy anyway if he's clearly the BPA, you know.. like they did with Floyd. Oh wait.. Laughing I'd say the chances is pretty big that Jerry Jones will listen a lot to what kind of players his coaches wants to the scheme, and Kiffin/Marinelli just loves their small quick twitch guys.. If they don't consider Floyd a good enough fit for taking in the top 20, they wouldn't have any idea what to do with Nix.

I'd love having a DC that is able to just grab the BPA and make the guy fit somewhere. But I don't think that is something we have right now.. Maybe Eberflus could help that, with his experience from multiple schemes?


You are probably right. It just disappointing to think that those old fossils that coach this team are locked into a defensive scheme from 15+ years ago that offenses will destroy under the current league rules.


Would that be the defensive scheme that just destroyed the best offense in the NFL? According to Pete Carroll, yes it would.

It's not the scheme, it's the fact that the scheme is predicated on penetration by 4 defensive linemen and we played several games with 5 or more of those out and 2-3 more playing injured.


Culture and leadership also have a lot to do with winning. We have a terrible culture and no leadership, so we're behind the 8-ball before we even place any players on the field to coach. Huge difference.
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TD-ES-JJ


Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1809
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dirk Gently wrote:
TD-ES-JJ wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
TD-ES-JJ wrote:
So a massive run stopper who can absorb two blockers and keep the MLB clean and free to run to the ball doesn't fit the scheme. Not knocking you Dez, but that is a silly scheme. How about the idea of getting the best Dlineman you can find and getting them on the field and putting together a scheme to best utilize your talent.

I think its lazy and reckless to pass up talent because your coordinator doesn't know how to adjust his "scheme" to fit his talent.


Hey, I'd be all for taking Nix. Just going by what I've read and heard.

Then again, Nix did sustain a knee injury in November...with as often as people complain about getting talented players who can't seem to stay on the field I'd imagine some wouldn't want to take him anyway.




When looking at what kind of DT's Kiffin/Marinelli have had on their rosters during their careers as DC, I'd say getting anyone above 310 is a long shot. Sad, since I really would love getting DaQuan Jones. But their scheme simply is all about having quick twitch guys who get up field fast and can be aggressive one gap penetraters instead of occupy blockers, that's what they've been coaching their whole carieer and I don't see them wanting to adjust that going into a contract year. Rarely that you even see 305+ guys on their rosters as far as I know.

- But that is where you have to trust that your GM says we should take the guy anyway if he's clearly the BPA, you know.. like they did with Floyd. Oh wait.. Laughing I'd say the chances is pretty big that Jerry Jones will listen a lot to what kind of players his coaches wants to the scheme, and Kiffin/Marinelli just loves their small quick twitch guys.. If they don't consider Floyd a good enough fit for taking in the top 20, they wouldn't have any idea what to do with Nix.

I'd love having a DC that is able to just grab the BPA and make the guy fit somewhere. But I don't think that is something we have right now.. Maybe Eberflus could help that, with his experience from multiple schemes?


You are probably right. It just disappointing to think that those old fossils that coach this team are locked into a defensive scheme from 15+ years ago that offenses will destroy under the current league rules.


Would that be the defensive scheme that just destroyed the best offense in the NFL? According to Pete Carroll, yes it would.

It's not the scheme, it's the fact that the scheme is predicated on penetration by 4 defensive linemen and we played several games with 5 or more of those out and 2-3 more playing injured.


From Coach Carroll's discussion of his defensive philosophy...a good read.

Quote:
At Nose Tackle you have to find a player who likes to mix it up. We want a big guy in there who likes to get down and dirty. He is going to get doubled a lot on the run and pass and is going to get down blocked a lot. He has to be a tough player. This guy can be a short and stubby type of player.

The other defensive tackle the 3 technique player should be your premier interior pass rusher. He is going to get a lot of one on one blocks as it is hard to double team him because of where he lines up.


I don't see where he says a big run stopping DT who can absorb two blockers does not fit his "scheme", in fact it appears he agrees with me.

http://trojanfootballanalysis.com/?p=311
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flyingmonkey30


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Joined: 04 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Dirk Gently wrote:
TD-ES-JJ wrote:
DKDALfan wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
TD-ES-JJ wrote:
So a massive run stopper who can absorb two blockers and keep the MLB clean and free to run to the ball doesn't fit the scheme. Not knocking you Dez, but that is a silly scheme. How about the idea of getting the best Dlineman you can find and getting them on the field and putting together a scheme to best utilize your talent.

I think its lazy and reckless to pass up talent because your coordinator doesn't know how to adjust his "scheme" to fit his talent.


Hey, I'd be all for taking Nix. Just going by what I've read and heard.

Then again, Nix did sustain a knee injury in November...with as often as people complain about getting talented players who can't seem to stay on the field I'd imagine some wouldn't want to take him anyway.




When looking at what kind of DT's Kiffin/Marinelli have had on their rosters during their careers as DC, I'd say getting anyone above 310 is a long shot. Sad, since I really would love getting DaQuan Jones. But their scheme simply is all about having quick twitch guys who get up field fast and can be aggressive one gap penetraters instead of occupy blockers, that's what they've been coaching their whole carieer and I don't see them wanting to adjust that going into a contract year. Rarely that you even see 305+ guys on their rosters as far as I know.

- But that is where you have to trust that your GM says we should take the guy anyway if he's clearly the BPA, you know.. like they did with Floyd. Oh wait.. Laughing I'd say the chances is pretty big that Jerry Jones will listen a lot to what kind of players his coaches wants to the scheme, and Kiffin/Marinelli just loves their small quick twitch guys.. If they don't consider Floyd a good enough fit for taking in the top 20, they wouldn't have any idea what to do with Nix.

I'd love having a DC that is able to just grab the BPA and make the guy fit somewhere. But I don't think that is something we have right now.. Maybe Eberflus could help that, with his experience from multiple schemes?


You are probably right. It just disappointing to think that those old fossils that coach this team are locked into a defensive scheme from 15+ years ago that offenses will destroy under the current league rules.


Would that be the defensive scheme that just destroyed the best offense in the NFL? According to Pete Carroll, yes it would.

It's not the scheme, it's the fact that the scheme is predicated on penetration by 4 defensive linemen and we played several games with 5 or more of those out and 2-3 more playing injured.


Culture and leadership also have a lot to do with winning. We have a terrible culture and no leadership, so we're behind the 8-ball before we even place any players on the field to coach. Huge difference.


In terms of the coaching staff and front office, I couldn't agree more. But I like the leadership we are putting together with our players, personally.
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ThePlaymaker86


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 446
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Spencer at a discount coming off micro fracture surgery is realistic. I'm not saying we should do it, but we could do worse.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThePlaymaker86 wrote:
I think Spencer at a discount coming off micro fracture surgery is realistic. I'm not saying we should do it, but we could do worse.


Let him walk. Our front office lacks the understanding that paying him on the cheap shouldn't stop us from drafting another DE high. Jerry looks at players like baseball cards rather than understanding long term strategy. To him, it's GOT IT, GOT IT, NEED IT, GOT IT, GOT IT. Re-signing Spencer basically means that we'll have a high risk injury player and we'll ignore the position in the draft because, well, GOT IT.
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cowboyfanin2890


Joined: 12 Feb 2012
Posts: 402
Location: Hayesville NC
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is worth noting when looking to our teams future is that another team with an above average to dominant D-line has won the super bowl. TAKE NOTES JJ.
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ThePlaymaker86


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
ThePlaymaker86 wrote:
I think Spencer at a discount coming off micro fracture surgery is realistic. I'm not saying we should do it, but we could do worse.


Let him walk. Our front office lacks the understanding that paying him on the cheap shouldn't stop us from drafting another DE high. Jerry looks at players like baseball cards rather than understanding long term strategy. To him, it's GOT IT, GOT IT, NEED IT, GOT IT, GOT IT. Re-signing Spencer basically means that we'll have a high risk injury player and we'll ignore the position in the draft because, well, GOT IT.
What if we did both? That would provide some depth at the DE position. I would like a fresh rotation consisting of (Ware and Spencer at team friendly deals), Selvie and a good rookie.
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ware94


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 1390
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erin Henderson has been released from Minnesota. The two DUI's are troubling, but he's a fit at strong-side.

Also, Dunta Robinson and Asante Samuel will probably come on a cheap one year deal if they are in the market for a CB.
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Desperado82


Joined: 20 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ware94 wrote:
Erin Henderson has been released from Minnesota. The two DUI's are troubling, but he's a fit at strong-side.

Also, Dunta Robinson and Asante Samuel will probably come on a cheap one year deal if they are in the market for a CB.


I don't think I'd touch Henderson.

Robinson and Samuel I might take a look at...but I don't see us signing a CB or drafting one high with Carr, Scandrick, Mo, Moore and Webb here.
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sodakcowboy78


Joined: 18 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nix would be a good solid 2nd round pick...but not in the 1st...Dallas needs a play maker in the 1st this year...pass rushing DE or DT FS OLB WR OG...id consider Frederick a play maker last year because he can in and started as a rookie and made a difference on the OL...i dont think Nix is gonna come in and make a difference on the DL as a rookie...not like Donald Ealy Pryor Shazier Martin or Evans could...


Peace
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DKDALfan


Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThePlaymaker86 wrote:
I think Spencer at a discount coming off micro fracture surgery is realistic. I'm not saying we should do it, but we could do worse.


I'd do it. Just think a 34 team will be willing to pay more then we should despite the injury.
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JWingate


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ziggy Hood to play the 1.
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Felix=Fast!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JWingate wrote:
Ziggy Hood to play the 1.
He's a texas guy...
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThePlaymaker86 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
ThePlaymaker86 wrote:
I think Spencer at a discount coming off micro fracture surgery is realistic. I'm not saying we should do it, but we could do worse.


Let him walk. Our front office lacks the understanding that paying him on the cheap shouldn't stop us from drafting another DE high. Jerry looks at players like baseball cards rather than understanding long term strategy. To him, it's GOT IT, GOT IT, NEED IT, GOT IT, GOT IT. Re-signing Spencer basically means that we'll have a high risk injury player and we'll ignore the position in the draft because, well, GOT IT.
What if we did both? That would provide some depth at the DE position. I would like a fresh rotation consisting of (Ware and Spencer at team friendly deals), Selvie and a good rookie.


Re-read the comment in bold.
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