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ny92jefferis


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm leaning offense.

The offensive line was terrible this year, I can't recall a season when it looked this bad. Statistically, we were ranked 5th for most negative plays in the rushing game. 6th for most qb hurries + sacks.

To reduce those numbers the Giants staff tried just about everything it looked like, from max protect, shorter drop backs, longer drop backs, shifting the line, shifting manning. Nothing really completely fixed the issue. I would only hope that the front office makes this the number one priority this offseason.

Defense wasn't lights out but imo but you could at least see progress from game to game.

Running back is another huge issue for me, with fan favorite Wilson not sure where he'll end up, we have a very weak running back list of players. Not sure that the Giants will look early in the draft for this position but more within free agency or possibly a trade of some sort to get a proven back.

I really think that the attention needs to be placed on the areas where it failed to succeed this season, which in my opinion was the offense. Personally, I don't think the defense did as bad as it looks. If the offense could of found some scores on the board along with better TOP and fewer turnovers things might of been different.
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bballbkd1001


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ny92jefferis wrote:
I'm leaning offense.

The offensive line was terrible this year, I can't recall a season when it looked this bad. Statistically, we were ranked 5th for most negative plays in the rushing game. 6th for most qb hurries + sacks.

To reduce those numbers the Giants staff tried just about everything it looked like, from max protect, shorter drop backs, longer drop backs, shifting the line, shifting manning. Nothing really completely fixed the issue. I would only hope that the front office makes this the number one priority this offseason.

Defense wasn't lights out but imo but you could at least see progress from game to game.

Running back is another huge issue for me, with fan favorite Wilson not sure where he'll end up, we have a very weak running back list of players. Not sure that the Giants will look early in the draft for this position but more within free agency or possibly a trade of some sort to get a proven back.

I really think that the attention needs to be placed on the areas where it failed to succeed this season, which in my opinion was the offense. Personally, I don't think the defense did as bad as it looks. If the offense could of found some scores on the board along with better TOP and fewer turnovers things might of been different.



With eli being rushed as well, forced him to cause turnovers resulting in shorter fields for opposition's causing a more tired defense with less opportunity to make plays.

Give eli a damn oline and a better system (one out of two done) and it'll result with points, a less tired defense and more wins. Simple as that



Oh. And we get Stevie brown and a healthy JPP back next year. Resign joseph/beason and hopefully tuck and you already have a better defense than last year without wasting a pick.
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ny92jefferis


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bballbkd1001 wrote:
ny92jefferis wrote:
I'm leaning offense.

The offensive line was terrible this year, I can't recall a season when it looked this bad. Statistically, we were ranked 5th for most negative plays in the rushing game. 6th for most qb hurries + sacks.

To reduce those numbers the Giants staff tried just about everything it looked like, from max protect, shorter drop backs, longer drop backs, shifting the line, shifting manning. Nothing really completely fixed the issue. I would only hope that the front office makes this the number one priority this offseason.

Defense wasn't lights out but imo but you could at least see progress from game to game.

Running back is another huge issue for me, with fan favorite Wilson not sure where he'll end up, we have a very weak running back list of players. Not sure that the Giants will look early in the draft for this position but more within free agency or possibly a trade of some sort to get a proven back.

I really think that the attention needs to be placed on the areas where it failed to succeed this season, which in my opinion was the offense. Personally, I don't think the defense did as bad as it looks. If the offense could of found some scores on the board along with better TOP and fewer turnovers things might of been different.



With eli being rushed as well, forced him to cause turnovers resulting in shorter fields for opposition's causing a more tired defense with less opportunity to make plays.

Give eli a damn oline and a better system (one out of two done) and it'll result with points, a less tired defense and more wins. Simple as that



Oh. And we get Stevie brown and a healthy JPP back next year. Resign joseph/beason and hopefully tuck and you already have a better defense than last year without wasting a pick.


Absolutely.

Lets not forget that we drafted a couple high end picks on the defensive line last season in Moore and Hankins, both of which should be seeing much more playing time this season. Defense to me doesn't seem as bad as some would suggest.

Young guys like Mcbride (who I figure will find a contract), Hosley, Hill, and Cooper Taylor, should play significant backup roles again this season.

I won't say we don't need linebackers but we've won rings, when we didn't have them, however, I'm hoping that the Beason experience has opened the eyes of our scouts and managers to make it a higher priority this season. Nonetheless, offensive line and running back would be my main focus moving forward.
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats all great for a perfect scenario, but we know it never goes like that.

I don't like relying on a 31 year old DE and a DE coming off back and shoulder injuries as our main pass rushers.

Linval Joseph is going to be expensive. Who knows if we can keep for a good price.

We can't put trust into Stevie Brown. He has 1 good season under his belt. Most players are now coming back 100% after an ACL injury, but it normally takes over a year still.

Beason had a great year for us no doubt about it, but we also can't put a lot of trust in him. This is a player that played 1 game in 2011 and 4 games in 2012 due to injuries. Putting trust in him would be a mistake. Like David Wilson his play would be a great benefit, but we should prepare like he will miss substantial time next season

Onto the OL. It was awful last year, no question. But it is also a lot easier to turn a bad OL into a solid one then turn a bad DL into a solid one. Also the play of a great DL is much more beneficial than that of a great OL.
There is not a lot of difference between a good OL to an average one as there is a huge difference between a good DL and an average one.

The Giants should go BPA, there are too many questions to just look in one particular area.
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Kodaraw


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acgott wrote:
Thats all great for a perfect scenario, but we know it never goes like that.

I don't like relying on a 31 year old DE and a DE coming off back and shoulder injuries as our main pass rushers.

Linval Joseph is going to be expensive. Who knows if we can keep for a good price.

We can't put trust into Stevie Brown. He has 1 good season under his belt. Most players are now coming back 100% after an ACL injury, but it normally takes over a year still.

Beason had a great year for us no doubt about it, but we also can't put a lot of trust in him. This is a player that played 1 game in 2011 and 4 games in 2012 due to injuries. Putting trust in him would be a mistake. Like David Wilson his play would be a great benefit, but we should prepare like he will miss substantial time next season

Onto the OL. It was awful last year, no question. But it is also a lot easier to turn a bad OL into a solid one then turn a bad DL into a solid one. Also the play of a great DL is much more beneficial than that of a great OL.
There is not a lot of difference between a good OL to an average one as there is a huge difference between a good DL and an average one.

The Giants should go BPA, there are too many questions to just look in one particular area.


THANK YOU!

Examine the roster, there are holes on both sides.
Yeah, the offense sucked. But that doesn't mean you neglect defense, especially with so many key contributors hitting FA and many of them injured. Not to mention the D talent in this draft is pretty nice..

We have two CB under contract Hosley and Prince - Hosley has never played a whole season and Prince only had one interception

2.5 DE (JPP is the .5 - he's injured and may not be effective) - Kiwi is horrible against the run and gets a ton of dumb penalties. Moore needs to bulk up and hasn't played that much.

DT is actually pretty solid. We drafted Hankins to buffer Joseph leaving. We prepared for this, and Hankins played a lot of snaps last year and was only a smidgen below Joseph.

LB - Rivers is probably gone, Beason wants to come back (and while he lost a step... I think a full offseason of training and not rehab will do him good), but Beason sucks in coverage. JWill was healthy all season and Paysinger looked pretty nice prior to Beason. I'm comfortable with LB unless Mack falls... or maybe even Barr, though I'm not sure Fewell would know what to do with a pass rushing LB.

Safety - Rolle is solid, but he's over 30. I wouldn't mind resigning him on a team friendly deal when his deal is up, but he will probably won't the biggest deal he can get. I don't blame him. His career is almost over.. get your money.
Will Hill is great, but one more incident and he's gone like Justin Blackmon. Cooper Taylor is an enigma. Reports were he may play LB when he was drafted, but who knows? He's big and hits hard which I like.. But he's young and inexperienced. Stevie Brown will probably never repeat his year prior to injury, but he is a great depth player. Mundy was solid prior to Hill, actually leading the team in tackles prior to being benched.

So, LB and DT are pretty set.

CB, DE, and even S are questionable.

My ideal situation is to trade into the late first, then early second (yes... trade back twice) picking up an extra second or two and third. Then going banana nana bonana and filling every hole while taking BPA:

Verrett (CB... Terrell Thomas said he has all the tools to be a shut down corner.. thats a stout assessment) 5 picks left

A TE ASJ/Ebron/Amaro will probably be there in the second or WR - I really like Benjamin or Coleman

DE -Kareem Martin is called a poor mans Clowney, minus the bad attitude. Works for me in the third or DT - Aaron Donald may be there in the second... Jenkins can play DE also. Having a stronger rotation means not having to force JPP back into action and we can ease him in. I would like to see JPP around for a while, so I'm all for him taking his time to get healthy. Look at Tuck the past two years when he wasn't healthy (DAMN YOU FLOZELL!) versus this year when he was healthy.

Two interior lineman - Jackson has slipped a little since Donald owned him at the senior bowl. Richardson fell because of his bowl game. Sadly, Yankey will go early. Martin will too; The Center from Colorado Boulder [which is where i want to go to law school... but I'm not biased] had a good senior bowl. Swanson isn't a mean mauler but a technician. I would take either

And a RB - I wouldn't mind Ben Tate but think he will get a pretty hefty contract. Sims or Carey would be nice. If Brown leaves, Tre Mason can be a Lacy/Jacobs kinda back and run through people. My only fear is he has a ton of miles. He was getting 40+ carries in games. Carlos Hyde is compared to L. Bell because of his patience, plus he was pretty active out of the backfield on screens. I would love a physical run game and strong defense. You know.. Like Seattle or San Francisco and even the Patriots at the end of the season

Thats CB, TE/WR, DE/DT, G/C or G/G, RB.

Assuming they aren't busts, we would solidify the trenches both on offense and defense, bring depth to the back field, help the secondary, and honestly almost any TE is going to be better than what we have. We would still have holes, and we may not have blue chip players. Call me crazy but I think 6 solid starters beats 1 or 2 blue chip players.

Also - another thing I think I mentioned early. The 2007 and 2011 Super Bowl were won when we had a 3 DE rotation and slid Tuck inside. If Moore shows he can handle the run and diagnose plays a little better, and JPP is truly healthy, even if Tuck leaves I think JPP could slide inside and handle that roll.

Essentially though, I agree with Ascott. Don't focus on one area. Trading up is crazy unless Clowney, Mack, Watkins are still there close to our pick and we don't have to give up a second. Take the BPA even if it isn't an immediate need. Every area on the roster could be upgraded now or will need to be in the future (except QB. If Bridgewater is there and we don't trade down I will have to buy a new TV and probably cell phone)


This is way longer than I intended. I guess thats what happens when you take a break from studying and are still in the zone. Very Happy


Edit: One more thing (haha) - Ross Cockrell from Duke could be a great late round sleeper. He is saying he will run a sub 4.4 and he stands pretty close to 6'. Scouts say his hips are stiff, but he has a nose for the ball and makes big plays. He's a physical press/man corner and handled his own pretty well against some big name guys (Benjamin, Evans). He would be a great pick up in the fourth or fifth and might even be able to convert to safety. He would bring some speed to our secondary and could work in an Earl Thomas fashion with Will Hill playing center field. Just a thought. I also like Aaron Colvin and let him redshirt his rookie year. Early in the year he was a first to second round pick, he slipped a little but I think he would have helped his stock in the senior bowl if he didn't tear his ACL. He may be a luxury pick but it could pay dividends later on.
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ny92jefferis


Joined: 22 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be clear, I'm not saying that our only attention should be directed to the offensive side of the ball, or missing out on BPA. My thing was I kept reading about how much the defense needed a facelift and not much talk on the offense.

I think both areas have their needs, I just believe that our biggest issue is with the offensive side of the house. Not saying that the top picks need to be offensive positions or anything like that, just taking notice of how heavy the talk has been with the defensive struggles and I just hadn't heard much on the offensive side.
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Kodaraw


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ny92jefferis wrote:
To be clear, I'm not saying that our only attention should be directed to the offensive side of the ball, or missing out on BPA. My thing was I kept reading about how much the defense needed a facelift and not much talk on the offense.

I think both areas have their needs, I just believe that our biggest issue is with the offensive side of the house. Not saying that the top picks need to be offensive positions or anything like that, just taking notice of how heavy the talk has been with the defensive struggles and I just hadn't heard much on the offensive side.


I can agree with this. And I think if our offense performed better our D would have too. But the D was constantly on the field and we aren't a scoring D. They kept games close but the offense didn't do their part. But I think there are very few offensive selections for us that warrant a first round pick unless we trade down.
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kodaraw wrote:
ny92jefferis wrote:
To be clear, I'm not saying that our only attention should be directed to the offensive side of the ball, or missing out on BPA. My thing was I kept reading about how much the defense needed a facelift and not much talk on the offense.

I think both areas have their needs, I just believe that our biggest issue is with the offensive side of the house. Not saying that the top picks need to be offensive positions or anything like that, just taking notice of how heavy the talk has been with the defensive struggles and I just hadn't heard much on the offensive side.


I can agree with this. And I think if our offense performed better our D would have too. But the D was constantly on the field and we aren't a scoring D. They kept games close but the offense didn't do their part. But I think there are very few offensive selections for us that warrant a first round pick unless we trade down.

The defense was trash last year. Don't look at the stats. We played 5 backup QBs and still got no pressure.
It needs a total revamping as wel
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ny92jefferis


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kodaraw wrote:
ny92jefferis wrote:
To be clear, I'm not saying that our only attention should be directed to the offensive side of the ball, or missing out on BPA. My thing was I kept reading about how much the defense needed a facelift and not much talk on the offense.

I think both areas have their needs, I just believe that our biggest issue is with the offensive side of the house. Not saying that the top picks need to be offensive positions or anything like that, just taking notice of how heavy the talk has been with the defensive struggles and I just hadn't heard much on the offensive side.


I can agree with this. And I think if our offense performed better our D would have too. But the D was constantly on the field and we aren't a scoring D. They kept games close but the offense didn't do their part. But I think there are very few offensive selections for us that warrant a first round pick unless we trade down.


And I can agree with that. Aside from some offensive lineman, wide out and quarterbacks (which we don't need) talent is heavy on defense in the Giants pick range in the first. So I wouldn't be upset or surprised that they went defense in the first round. With that said I wouldn't be opposed to trading down. However, like last years draft there were several offensive lineman that come off the board earlier than most expected.
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ny92jefferis


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acgott wrote:
Kodaraw wrote:
ny92jefferis wrote:
To be clear, I'm not saying that our only attention should be directed to the offensive side of the ball, or missing out on BPA. My thing was I kept reading about how much the defense needed a facelift and not much talk on the offense.

I think both areas have their needs, I just believe that our biggest issue is with the offensive side of the house. Not saying that the top picks need to be offensive positions or anything like that, just taking notice of how heavy the talk has been with the defensive struggles and I just hadn't heard much on the offensive side.


I can agree with this. And I think if our offense performed better our D would have too. But the D was constantly on the field and we aren't a scoring D. They kept games close but the offense didn't do their part. But I think there are very few offensive selections for us that warrant a first round pick unless we trade down.

The defense was trash last year. Don't look at the stats. We played 5 backup QBs and still got no pressure.
It needs a total revamping as wel


Sacks don't measure it all.

I've got the five teams you mentioned as Phi, min, phi, gb, was. Not sure if those are the five you mention or not, so let me know if those aren't the five.

We lost one of those games, the first matchup against phi where Manning had 3 interceptions and our running back Jacobs gained 36 yards and a fumble.

The game we played against both Vick and Foles, Vick went out early with a leg injury. Foles did put up some decent numbers but their real playmaker on that roster in McCoy rushed for 46 yards.

Against the Vikings Freeman was sacked and picked once, I agree with that it wasn't much but at the some token their playmaker on that roster rushed for 28 yards.

In the second Philly game, against Barkley, he tossed a pick and fumbled three times along with being sacked 4 times. Where again McCoy only rushed for 48 yards.

Against Green Bay's back up, Tolzien he was picked off 3 times, Lacy rushed for 27 yards

Lastly, Washington where Cousins was intercepted twice, fumbled and sacked 3 times. Morris rushed for 62 yards.

To me it seems like the Giants defense did well in all of these games in terms of stopping or slowing down the playmakers on these teams and that there was a little more pressure than you're giving credit.
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is actually 6 with Raiders and Pryor

Anyway the point I was trying to make was that we played well against the 6 backup QB's, but AWFUL against starting quarterbacks. People try to point to the top 10 ranked defense, but 6 of those games had backups starting.

We can point to turnovers and rightfully so, but the defense was bad as well.

Our defensive stats are diluted because of the turnovers so it is hard to judge them based off of that

The only position I feel comfortable with is CB1 Prince Amkuamara. EVERY other player has a chance of either being cut or is a major question mark.

On offense at least we have QB1, WR1, WR3, RT1 that we know 100% are going to be back

Going OT in the 1st means either we probably move Pugh or Beatty to G, positions they have never played. Is the value there in a Guard at 12? I don't think so.

We are stuck with Beatty for at least 1 more year as cutting him cost as 8 million.
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ny92jefferis


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acgott wrote:
It is actually 6 with Raiders and Pryor

Anyway the point I was trying to make was that we played well against the 6 backup QB's, but AWFUL against starting quarterbacks. People try to point to the top 10 ranked defense, but 6 of those games had backups starting.

We can point to turnovers and rightfully so, but the defense was bad as well.

Our defensive stats are diluted because of the turnovers so it is hard to judge them based off of that

The only position I feel comfortable with is CB1 Prince Amkuamara. EVERY other player has a chance of either being cut or is a major question mark.

On offense at least we have QB1, WR1, WR3, RT1 that we know 100% are going to be back

Going OT in the 1st means either we probably move Pugh or Beatty to G, positions they have never played. Is the value there in a Guard at 12? I don't think so.

We are stuck with Beatty for at least 1 more year as cutting him cost as 8 million.


Top 10 defense is a new one for me if we're talking about the Giants.

We are going to have to figure out how to get some of our free agents back, like Joseph.

For the offensive line, I agree I don't see Beatty moving to tackle and Pugh shifting inside. The real problems on the offensive line were interior issues. Baas just isn't that guy and Snee is running on borrowed time.

There are a couple centers I would love to have on the roster, two of which could be had in rounds 2 or later, guards too. So in looking at strictly draft options and not free agency or trade, I could see Reese putting picks in for interior lineman somewhere in between rounds 2 and 4.

I would also expect to see him find some quality backups in the free agency once the feeding frenzy comes to a stop.

Giants also gotta figure out who their work horse is going to be in a tailback. Would love to see Wilson back but I worry more over him than you do with JPP.

Without Nicks, I still think that the Giants would be fine providing the offensive line and a legit back in running the ball.

Linebacker as always has been my beef with Reese for years. I think that the giants would be wise to retain Beason for a multi-year deal. I know that the injuries in the past stress you out, but he was a fresh breath of air to a linebacker core that looked confused. I actually think he played a role in picking the defense up.

I love the pass rushers and I think drafting one early would be dependant upon where Tuck is at. Giants invested some high picks on JPP and Moore, while the talent is there for both of these guys, health issues are a concern, so I get where you're coming from there. Just don't think that the position is in such dire need of a first rounder.

CB....We need one maybe two or more. I expect we'll resign at least McBride as he did a decent job as backup last year. Thomas played good at times. So I wouldn't be opposed going CB in the first providing one is there for the value.

Outside linebacker is a big issue for me at both Will and Sam, would love to see them invest a pick on a quality potential starter.

The bright side of it all is that we have cap space this season we should be active in both free agency (resigning and shopping) and the draft.

It also wouldn't hurt my feelings to see a trade down in the first and pick up some picks in the later rounds. 12th pick in terms of draft pick value is pretty solid.
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bballbkd1001


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best case for this team is to win the turnover battle. I believe it was cowboys week one and Chicago that their offense average starting was at our 40. A defense can build better numbers such as passing/rushing yards per game but practically doubles the points scored per game (the only stat that matters) and decreases the opportunity to force a turnover or tackle for loss or sack.

And our run defense was stellar last year thanks to beason and joseph.

If we sign those two players and stevie brown, plus having Hankins and Moore added to the starting lineup/significant playing time, we will have a front 4 that looks like this:
JPP (25 years old)
Hankins (21)
Joseph (25 years old)
Moore (21 years old)

A linebacking group who's always sucked but Williams will only be 25

Secondary that includes:
Prince (24)
Hosely (23)
Will hill (23)
Stevie brown (26)

That is a young solid core.. with majority of them already proved that they can be caliber starters.

And every team plays back up quarterbacks. We usually suck against back ups. Part of the game.
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reckless123


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously our defensive ranking was helped by the backup QBs we faced but that takes nothing away from what we did last year. Usually we struggle vs backups. So thats says something. Not to mention offensive ineptitude plagued this defense all year.

The only QB that tore us apart was probably Rivers. We did well vs Manning, Stafford, Wilson, RG3 and even Cam. Romo didnt do much against us but what he made plays at the right time against us. Anybody that thinks our defense was awful clearly didnt watch them last year.

Even against Alex Smith we did very well. We got 2 turnovers by the 4th Q then we just couldnt keep them down any longer. So what if we didnt get pressure, that just means our pass rush was awful not our entire defense.
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something needs to be done about the pass rush, so I wouldn't mind a DE in the first round. However, to be picked that high in a good draft, he'd have to really put on a show at the combine. Greg Hardy in free agency would be nice.
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