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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 47312
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Draft Talk Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Dook wrote:
You can get a good ILB in the 5th round.


You CAN....but its unlikely.

People overrate the ability to find quality ILBs in the mid to later rounds.

Most of the notably good ones in this league were 1st and 2nd round picks.


It is less likely to find quality LB's in the latter rounds than in the earlier rounds. Makes sense.

But, it is easier to find quality LB's in the latter rounds than it is other positions. Particularly 34 ILB's.

I agree that impact ILB's don't just grow on trees in the mid rounds, but you can find plug and play guys that will do a serviceable job that teams can win with fairly easily.

The position, by it's nature, just requires a less rare skillset than other spots do.


I agree you can find plug and play players, but I dont agree its easier to find ILBs than other positions. I think you can find plug and play guys just as easily at most other positions outside of QB.

And honestly, those plug and play guys at ILB need more help around them. If you had a great ILB and a good DLine, sure....but Timmons IMO is limited due to his poor instincts and our DLine surely isnt good....so IMO, another plug and play LB really isnt going to help us much. IMO, we need a good ILB next to Timmons, and as I said....you dont find those easily or even really easiER in the mid-late rounds.

And for the record....Im not saying we have to or SHOULD take an ILB early, or that we SHOULDNT take one late, but IMO, we need an impact player at ILB, and we arent likely to find one of those late.
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jebrick


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 7861
Location: Indianapolis
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of very good articles on the top WRs in the draft.

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46006/349/peshek-top-4-wr-metrics
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cfb/46136/349/peshek-wr-metrics-20

The 1st had data on Watkins, Evans, Benjamin and Lee. Just from these stats, Evans is superior.

The 2nd article deals with Cook, Mathews, Landry, Beckham and Robinson.

Robinson, Evans and Mathews have impressive YAC average.
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stillersenat


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Draft Talk Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
treat88 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
Dook wrote:
You can get a good ILB in the 5th round.


You CAN....but its unlikely.

People overrate the ability to find quality ILBs in the mid to later rounds.

Most of the notably good ones in this league were 1st and 2nd round picks.


It is less likely to find quality LB's in the latter rounds than in the earlier rounds. Makes sense.

But, it is easier to find quality LB's in the latter rounds than it is other positions. Particularly 34 ILB's.

I agree that impact ILB's don't just grow on trees in the mid rounds, but you can find plug and play guys that will do a serviceable job that teams can win with fairly easily.

The position, by it's nature, just requires a less rare skillset than other spots do.


I agree you can find plug and play players, but I dont agree its easier to find ILBs than other positions. I think you can find plug and play guys just as easily at most other positions outside of QB.

And honestly, those plug and play guys at ILB need more help around them. If you had a great ILB and a good DLine, sure....but Timmons IMO is limited due to his poor instincts and our DLine surely isnt good....so IMO, another plug and play LB really isnt going to help us much. IMO, we need a good ILB next to Timmons, and as I said....you dont find those easily or even really easiER in the mid-late rounds.

And for the record....Im not saying we have to or SHOULD take an ILB early, or that we SHOULDNT take one late, but IMO, we need an impact player at ILB, and we arent likely to find one of those late.


I'm thinking JJ moves to inside and we go OLB in the draft. Jones doesn't have a fast first step but he has good instincts. Pretty much what you see in good ILBs.

Not that it would happen like that, but it's what I see.
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armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 3462
Location: In your head
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some interesting, to say the least, ranking of QB, RB, and WR from this guy. I'm not endorsing him but curious as to how others view his rankings.

QBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbYvx7FaDUs

RBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6l3URZ6YL0

WRs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WziRW-hpW7A

TEs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSvyyzYl7fU
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Last edited by armsteeld on Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BigSnack


Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 645
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
Here are some interesting, to say the least, ranking of QB, RB, and WR from this guy. I'm not endorsing him but curious as to how others view his rankings.

QBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbYvx7FaDUs

RBs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6l3URZ6YL0

WRs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WziRW-hpW7A


like most rankings i agree with some and disagree with others.... not my favorite that i have seen.

I will say this that most here wont like it because of where Benjamin is ranked. I would not rank him anywhere that low but i am not nearly as high on him as most here.
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Dook wrote:
D.Revis24 wrote:
What was his injury last season that forced him to miss 5 games?


Yeast infection.
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6338
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you take Haleys O into account Odell Beckham Jr. actually makes as much sense if not more than any other WR in this class.

Kid is a pro ready, dynamic, RAC machine. Little bigger version of AB IMO.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haley had big bodied WR's in Arizona, KC, and Dallas. This is the only place he's had midgets, and he inherited them. When he described Wheaton, one of the things he talked about was that he was built bigger than people realize (not sure I agree, but...). His 'system' ideally calls for guys who can make catches in traffic and catch jump balls.

What it doesn't do well is design intermediate routes which scheme guys open. The best he could come up with last year were fade routes to Cotchery and Sanders.

Quote:

I will say this that most here wont like it because of where Benjamin is ranked. I would not rank him anywhere that low but i am not nearly as high on him as most here.


I didn't get to Benjamin. It's fine if someone ranks guys on their own, but I don't think half of them get drafted where he thinks they will.
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32houchen32


Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 352
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The comp picks aren't set in stone yet, but from my bleacher report source thinks steelers are getting a 3rd(Wallace) 5th(Lewis) 7th(Mundy)

I just have a hard time believing Lewis only comes up with a 5th and Mendenhall giving us nothing.
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BigSnack


Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 645
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He had Benjamin down at like 17th or something and in the 3rd round i think. Now in now way do i think he falls that far or is only the 17th best wr in this draft, but I am pretty sure I am one of the few who would rather have Evans.

It is still way to early for rankings like these to be anywhere close to accurate. Lots of the process is still to happen.

The one wr i agree with is Beckham. The more i see the more i like.
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Dook wrote:
D.Revis24 wrote:
What was his injury last season that forced him to miss 5 games?


Yeast infection.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 47312
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

32houchen32 wrote:
The comp picks aren't set in stone yet, but from my bleacher report source thinks steelers are getting a 3rd(Wallace) 5th(Lewis) 7th(Mundy)

I just have a hard time believing Lewis only comes up with a 5th and Mendenhall giving us nothing.


Lewis signed for a pretty cheap deal.

Mendy sucked this year and signed for a cheap one or two year deal.

Im more shocked that we ARE getting something for Mundy.
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We ain't got nothing man, just a chiefs win, thats all you get...And next week it will be wash, rinse, repeat.
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SteelProven


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Location: Ramstein, Germany
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
32houchen32 wrote:
The comp picks aren't set in stone yet, but from my bleacher report source thinks steelers are getting a 3rd(Wallace) 5th(Lewis) 7th(Mundy)

I just have a hard time believing Lewis only comes up with a 5th and Mendenhall giving us nothing.


Lewis signed for a pretty cheap deal.

Mendy sucked this year and signed for a cheap one or two year deal.

Im more shocked that we ARE getting something for Mundy.


As long as the Steelers get a 3rd for Wallace everything else is a bonus. Even though that 3rd will be more like a fourth.
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
Haley had big bodied WR's in Arizona, KC, and Dallas. This is the only place he's had midgets, and he inherited them. When he described Wheaton, one of the things he talked about was that he was built bigger than people realize (not sure I agree, but...). His 'system' ideally calls for guys who can make catches in traffic and catch jump balls.

What it doesn't do well is design intermediate routes which scheme guys open. The best he could come up with last year were fade routes to Cotchery and Sanders.


I see 180 degree the opposite in terms of what Haley is doing here. His whole passing game is predicated on scheming guys open on short and intermediate routes which turn into RAC. They did a great job of keeping Ben upright with timing and quick breaking routes over the second half. Hell Ben threw fewer playaction passes than any other QB in the league this year which tells me Haley is asking his guys to win off the line and separate or find the open zone quickly. That fails in the red zone due to a lack of size, in combination with some of Ben's weaknesses, I agree, but it was pretty successful between the 20's. I'd love to add that big red zone target as much as anyone, but I'd rather add a quality WR rather than just a big WR. I think Beckham rivals Sammy in terms of pure WR skills and has been asked to run a more pro style route tree. I guess I don't really consider Brown or Beckham midgets either.

If they choose to add a receiver in the first it's Ebron, Watkins, or Beckham that I am rooting for.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

treat88 wrote:
CKSteeler wrote:
Haley had big bodied WR's in Arizona, KC, and Dallas. This is the only place he's had midgets, and he inherited them. When he described Wheaton, one of the things he talked about was that he was built bigger than people realize (not sure I agree, but...). His 'system' ideally calls for guys who can make catches in traffic and catch jump balls.

What it doesn't do well is design intermediate routes which scheme guys open. The best he could come up with last year were fade routes to Cotchery and Sanders.


I see 180 degree the opposite in terms of what Haley is doing here. His whole passing game is predicated on scheming guys open on short and intermediate routes which turn into RAC. They did a great job of keeping Ben upright with timing and quick breaking routes over the second half. Hell Ben threw fewer playaction passes than any other QB in the league this year which tells me Haley is asking his guys to win off the line and separate or find the open zone quickly. That fails in the red zone due to a lack of size, in combination with some of Ben's weaknesses, I agree, but it was pretty successful between the 20's. I'd love to add that big red zone target as much as anyone, but I'd rather add a quality WR rather than just a big WR. I think Beckham rivals Sammy in terms of pure WR skills and has been asked to run a more pro style route tree. I guess I don't really consider Brown or Beckham midgets either.

If they choose to add a receiver in the first it's Ebron, Watkins, or Beckham that I am rooting for.


With all that said, did Haley do this because he didn't have that big bodied WR? The Steelers OL was bad at blocking early on that PA wasn't really a option.

I agree that some sort of big bodied target is needed. I'd prefer Ebron, but wouldn't gladly settle for ASJ or Amaro.
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treat88


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelProven wrote:
treat88 wrote:
CKSteeler wrote:
Haley had big bodied WR's in Arizona, KC, and Dallas. This is the only place he's had midgets, and he inherited them. When he described Wheaton, one of the things he talked about was that he was built bigger than people realize (not sure I agree, but...). His 'system' ideally calls for guys who can make catches in traffic and catch jump balls.

What it doesn't do well is design intermediate routes which scheme guys open. The best he could come up with last year were fade routes to Cotchery and Sanders.


I see 180 degree the opposite in terms of what Haley is doing here. His whole passing game is predicated on scheming guys open on short and intermediate routes which turn into RAC. They did a great job of keeping Ben upright with timing and quick breaking routes over the second half. Hell Ben threw fewer playaction passes than any other QB in the league this year which tells me Haley is asking his guys to win off the line and separate or find the open zone quickly. That fails in the red zone due to a lack of size, in combination with some of Ben's weaknesses, I agree, but it was pretty successful between the 20's. I'd love to add that big red zone target as much as anyone, but I'd rather add a quality WR rather than just a big WR. I think Beckham rivals Sammy in terms of pure WR skills and has been asked to run a more pro style route tree. I guess I don't really consider Brown or Beckham midgets either.

If they choose to add a receiver in the first it's Ebron, Watkins, or Beckham that I am rooting for.


With all that said, did Haley do this because he didn't have that big bodied WR? The Steelers OL was bad at blocking early on that PA wasn't really a option.

I agree that some sort of big bodied target is needed. I'd prefer Ebron, but wouldn't gladly settle for ASJ or Amaro.


Don't know. Id guess if he had the big body he'd utilize it, but the whole jump ball, contested catch based offense isn't what hes calling for now. Kinda chicken and egg discussion really.

Regardless of play calling I believe Beckham is a more well rounded WR with a higher likelihood his skills will translate than any other WR not named Watkins. Id take him over either Evans or Benjamin despite his similarity to what we already have in the receiving corps.
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95lloyd


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Beckham Jr goes late first, I'm hoping we can nab Davante Adams in the second.
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