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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 2054
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:06 pm    Post subject: Draft Talk Reply with quote

You can get a good ILB in the 5th round.

Every year some very good WR's don't get drafted. This year is no different.


Sleepers:

Draft sites and mocks have CB Ross Cockrell as a 5th round or later guy, his size is perfect for a CB, 6' 190 lbs, and he's estimated to run a 4.50. He had 71 tackles, 13 passes broken up, and 5 interceptions. I have him rated as a 2c but don't see us using that high of a pick for a CB. If he's there in the 4th I would definately take him.

OT Michael Schofield, Michigan, not on most draft boards but I have a 5a on him.

WR Jeff Janis, 6' 2", 218 lbs, 4.36, 83 receptions for Saginaw Valley State. If he really runs a 4.36 his draft stock will climb, right now I have him as a 4b.

RB Roderick McDowell, 5' 10", 200 lbs, 4.50, 5.4 YPC avg, 856 yds, 5 TD, 25 rec. for Clemson. I have him as a 6a now but I'm just waiting for an excuse to move him up.

TE Joe Don Duncan, 6' 3", 267 lbs, 4.70, 71 rec, 13 TD, Dixie State. Small school guy who has acceptable but not exceptional size for a TE but good stats. I have him as a 5th rounder but really he should go a full round higher.

Overrated:

DT Ra'Shede Hageman is overrated, moving from a 3rd or 4th round guy to mid-1st round. I know he was double teamed a lot last season but he's not going to be able to over power NFL linemen. I think he's a 3a even though he will go higher.

DT Aaron Donald, 6' 1", 288 lbs, Pitt. Good stats and he did well at the Senior Bowl practices but he's a tweener, too small to play DT in a 3-4 or 4-3, too small to play DE in a 3-4, and too slow and heavy to play OLB in a 3-4. He's a tough one to value. I would not draft him since he doesn't fit our system but I have him graded as a 4th rounder. He will probably go a round or two higher than that.

If there was a 20 round draft I still wouldn't take QB Logan Thomas.
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armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 3672
Location: In your head
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Draft Talk Reply with quote

Dook wrote:
You can get a good ILB in the 5th round.

Every year some very good WR's don't get drafted. This year is no different.


Sleepers:

Draft sites and mocks have CB Ross Cockrell as a 5th round or later guy, his size is perfect for a CB, 6' 190 lbs, and he's estimated to run a 4.50. He had 71 tackles, 13 passes broken up, and 5 interceptions. I have him rated as a 2c but don't see us using that high of a pick for a CB. If he's there in the 4th I would definately take him.

OT Michael Schofield, Michigan, not on most draft boards but I have a 5a on him.

WR Jeff Janis, 6' 2", 218 lbs, 4.36, 83 receptions for Saginaw Valley State. If he really runs a 4.36 his draft stock will climb, right now I have him as a 4b.

RB Roderick McDowell, 5' 10", 200 lbs, 4.50, 5.4 YPC avg, 856 yds, 5 TD, 25 rec. for Clemson. I have him as a 6a now but I'm just waiting for an excuse to move him up.

TE Joe Don Duncan, 6' 3", 267 lbs, 4.70, 71 rec, 13 TD, Dixie State. Small school guy who has acceptable but not exceptional size for a TE but good stats. I have him as a 5th rounder but really he should go a full round higher.

Overrated:

DT Ra'Shede Hageman is overrated, moving from a 3rd or 4th round guy to mid-1st round. I know he was double teamed a lot last season but he's not going to be able to over power NFL linemen. I think he's a 3a even though he will go higher.

DT Aaron Donald, 6' 1", 288 lbs, Pitt. Good stats and he did well at the Senior Bowl practices but he's a tweener, too small to play DT in a 3-4 or 4-3, too small to play DE in a 3-4, and too slow and heavy to play OLB in a 3-4. He's a tough one to value. I would not draft him since he doesn't fit our system but I have him graded as a 4th rounder. He will probably go a round or two higher than that.

If there was a 20 round draft I still wouldn't take QB Logan Thomas.


I would take Logan Thomas over Landry from last year's draft.
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chrisororke


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Hageman a lot. I think he is basically Cam Heyward. Big, athletic, strong guys with a motor. Hageman being a beastlier version. One guy in the NFL can't block Cam now. Hageman has been doubled the past two years and still was hard to block. They are both late first round grade guys. If Ebron and Benjamin aren't there I wouldn't be opposed to trading back and trying to get Hageman in the late 20's.

Don't think Donald works in Pittsburgh.
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Dook


Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 2054
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Draft Talk Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:


I would take Logan Thomas over Landry from last year's draft.


Maybe to play WR.
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JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Logan THomas needs 3+ years of breaking down and redeveloping his game, ie seasoning. I think his development was retarded at Va Tech. He always seemed willing but I don't think had the right guidance. Maybe he studied enough but I really question if they had anyone there to lead him in the right direction. He was a tight end anointed to be the QB. His arm talent is sick...stronger than just about every NFL QB, but lacks touch. He could throw the ball through a LB's or safeties hands down the middle. Its outside fades and plays where he has to drop it in that he has struggled; thinking rather than throwing etc.

Physically he worked hard at Senior Bowl week, he always plays hard and seems to have an even keel personality. His physical abilities are even greater potential than Colin Kapernick and could actually be the weapon in a Wildcat offense that could transcend the game while he continues to develop as a QB. He already runs the read option very well and when he runs the ball the punishment typically is going onto the defender rather than on the QB not quite the case with Kapernick etc. Teams with franchise QBs don't like to take franchise QBs off the field but there is no doubt that THomas could create some severe issues for a defense as an alternative to a regular offensive scheme.

Thomas is no doubt valuable enough for a 5th round pick the only question is how high a value a team places on the plan they have to utilize all his ability and their potential to develop it. To me it seems failure to do so will be the fault of the team more so than the player so long as he is willing (keep the agent out of his head).

I'd be very happy if we used a 4th on him and even be comfortable with our potential 3rd round comp so long as the plan is good. Even our 2nd if they really had the plan together, but that doesn't seem realistic for our team based on history of our thinking.. A team should not be selecting him earlier than the late 3rd solely as a QB. Not to throw Tomlin under the bus but I think Cowher and or Whiz might be more intrigued by the possibilities.
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armsteeld


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
Logan THomas needs 3+ years of breaking down and redeveloping his game, ie seasoning. I think his development was retarded at Va Tech. He always seemed willing but I don't think had the right guidance. Maybe he studied enough but I really question if they had anyone there to lead him in the right direction. He was a tight end anointed to be the QB. His arm talent is sick...stronger than just about every NFL QB, but lacks touch. He could throw the ball through a LB's or safeties hands down the middle. Its outside fades and plays where he has to drop it in that he has struggled; thinking rather than throwing etc.

Physically he worked hard at Senior Bowl week, he always plays hard and seems to have an even keel personality. His physical abilities are even greater potential than Colin Kapernick and could actually be the weapon in a Wildcat offense that could transcend the game while he continues to develop as a QB. He already runs the read option very well and when he runs the ball the punishment typically is going onto the defender rather than on the QB not quite the case with Kapernick etc. Teams with franchise QBs don't like to take franchise QBs off the field but there is no doubt that THomas could create some severe issues for a defense as an alternative to a regular offensive scheme.

Thomas is no doubt valuable enough for a 5th round pick the only question is how high a value a team places on the plan they have to utilize all his ability and their potential to develop it. To me it seems failure to do so will be the fault of the team more so than the player so long as he is willing (keep the agent out of his head).

I'd be very happy if we used a 4th on him and even be comfortable with our potential 3rd round comp so long as the plan is good. Even our 2nd if they really had the plan together, but that doesn't seem realistic for our team based on history of our thinking.. A team should not be selecting him earlier than the late 3rd solely as a QB. Not to throw Tomlin under the bus but I think Cowher and or Whiz might be more intrigued by the possibilities.


Solid points and I agree. I feel Tomlin will not Want that type of player due to saying the Wildcat/Spread dual threat QBs, were not envoge (sp).
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mwalker


Joined: 28 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't agree that Hageman is over - rated if you want him as a 5 technique. He needs some hand work, but his physical talents are immense. I think you either help polish a star or he's at least a solid 5. I think he can be as good as Wilkerson in NY.

That being said, I have to believe our first round choice comes down to about 5-7 players...

Whomever the steelers feel is a better fit between Gilbert (maybe more of a playmaker and immediate kick returner) and Dennard (shut down or limited physical skills depending on who you believe)

Nix at NT. You have to consider him, even if some folks aren't as high on him, if he's a potential plug in at NT.

Ebron. I think he diversifies our O-Game, more than any other TE. The key for me is diversity, we need to find more, different ways to be dangerous.

Or Marquise Lee (we draft like for like) or Evans (we draft a big, in my opinion, over rated player)

Lastly, we surprise and go Mosley at ILB (great player for the modern NFL game in my opinion).

I suppose we could really surprise and try slimming down someone like Ealy from Missou for OLB, look at Hageman or even take a tackle, but I really think it's someone above.

In my opinion, the best case scenario would be the Steelers knowing they can get one of the above about 6 picks later and picking up an additional pick or two by trading down.

Like Janis, but a lot of folks are talking about him. Have heard Colbert raved about the slot from Wyoming at recent Senior Bowl workouts, Herron I believe...mid/late rounder.

Also think it'd be pretty interesting if the Steelers somehow managed to draft both McGill and Jean - Baptiste, possibly shifting McGill to FS.

It feels like a draft we could over index on 'athleticism' to me.
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BigBiss


Joined: 23 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Jeff Janis played for Iowa no one would know who he is
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mwalker


Joined: 28 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigBiss wrote:
If Jeff Janis played for Iowa no one would know who he is



Possibly very, very true.
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: Draft Talk Reply with quote

Dook wrote:
You can get a good ILB in the 5th round.


You CAN....but its unlikely.

People overrate the ability to find quality ILBs in the mid to later rounds.

Most of the notably good ones in this league were 1st and 2nd round picks.
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SteelProven


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mwalker wrote:
I don't agree that Hageman is over - rated if you want him as a 5 technique. He needs some hand work, but his physical talents are immense. I think you either help polish a star or he's at least a solid 5. I think he can be as good as Wilkerson in NY.

That being said, I have to believe our first round choice comes down to about 5-7 players...

Whomever the steelers feel is a better fit between Gilbert (maybe more of a playmaker and immediate kick returner) and Dennard (shut down or limited physical skills depending on who you believe)

Nix at NT. You have to consider him, even if some folks aren't as high on him, if he's a potential plug in at NT.

Ebron. I think he diversifies our O-Game, more than any other TE. The key for me is diversity, we need to find more, different ways to be dangerous.

Or Marquise Lee (we draft like for like) or Evans (we draft a big, in my opinion, over rated player)

Lastly, we surprise and go Mosley at ILB (great player for the modern NFL game in my opinion).

I suppose we could really surprise and try slimming down someone like Ealy from Missou for OLB, look at Hageman or even take a tackle, but I really think it's someone above.

In my opinion, the best case scenario would be the Steelers knowing they can get one of the above about 6 picks later and picking up an additional pick or two by trading down.

Like Janis, but a lot of folks are talking about him. Have heard Colbert raved about the slot from Wyoming at recent Senior Bowl workouts, Herron I believe...mid/late rounder.

Also think it'd be pretty interesting if the Steelers somehow managed to draft both McGill and Jean - Baptiste, possibly shifting McGill to FS.

It feels like a draft we could over index on 'athleticism' to me.


Amaro, Tuitt and Benjamin are players I believe will be considered also.
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To one of the above comments, I would not mind picking Logan Thomas up as an undrafted Free Agent if he is in fact not drafted. He might be just based on his raw talent. He is very much a project type player but he has the capability of a Russell Wilson imo. He's just not on that level yet, his skills are very raw and he needs good coaching. (Wilson might be aiming high)
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jebrick


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Tuitt falls into the 2nd round. His tape is not showing much if any improvement over the last year.

If they are looking at a weapon then it will be one of the TEs more than Evans or Benjamin. Ebron or Amaro are more likely to get favorable mismatches and make an impact sooner and either Evans or Benjamin.

That being said, both Evans and Benjamin need to learn to run better routes. It is Evan's glaring weakness. For both WR the question is can they learn the routes. If either of them had the dedication of A. Brown they would be great.

Janis will still be a late round pick. He is going to run well at the combine. He is tall but weak. He has trouble with a jam. He does not get up after the ball. Couple that with the D-II competition and I think he is a 5th round pick. Which is better than the 7th round pick the draft sites had him at.

Colbert likes WR that can run good routes coming out of college. They can get open. I doubt the Steelers go to Herron unless he is there in the 6th round. They already have him on the team.

i think the Steelers could get a NT in the 4th-5th round that would be as good as or better than Nix. His name is Ryan Carrethers. Let Dallas draft Nix in the 1st.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuitt would [inappropriate/removed] me off even more than Nix. If I'm going DE at 1.15, it's Hageman.

Quote:

People overrate the ability to find quality ILBs in the mid to later rounds.


I think I would say you can find perfectly acceptable ILB's in the later rounds. Presumably Timmons, with a massive contract, would be the star inside. The other guy should just be complimentary and not need to be great.

But I think a guy like Van Noy would be my pick in the 2nd round. I would take him over Mosley any day of the week. It'll be interesting to see how teams rank him. ILB/OLB capable for 3-4's. Perhaps not viewed as a top end pass rusher so he drops a bit.
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treat88


Joined: 03 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Draft Talk Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
Dook wrote:
You can get a good ILB in the 5th round.


You CAN....but its unlikely.

People overrate the ability to find quality ILBs in the mid to later rounds.

Most of the notably good ones in this league were 1st and 2nd round picks.


It is less likely to find quality LB's in the latter rounds than in the earlier rounds. Makes sense.

But, it is easier to find quality LB's in the latter rounds than it is other positions. Particularly 34 ILB's.

I agree that impact ILB's don't just grow on trees in the mid rounds, but you can find plug and play guys that will do a serviceable job that teams can win with fairly easily.

The position, by it's nature, just requires a less rare skillset than other spots do.
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