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Free Agents I Would Call At Least
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 7408
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
Pretty stacked DL free agent class
BJ Raji
Jared Allen
Robert Ayers
Michael Bennett
Everson Griffen
Greg Hardy
Ziggy Hood
Lamarr Houston
Tyson Jackson
Johnny Jolly
Arthur Jones
Linval Joseph
Clinton McDonald
Henry Melton
Mike Neal
Ryan Pickett
Antonio Smith
Pat Sims
Randy Starks
Justin Tuck

dang


It will be interesting to see who in this group will be truly available and not re-signed by their present teams.
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gizmo2012


Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 2623
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the Packers - 8th in money available. I think a few previously hit it on the head and it is really who on their own team do they sign and then how much money remains after. I would be shocked if the Packers don't go after a veteran safety because there will be a couple of keepers and they will certainly cost less than what Raji wants. I think the Packers will try to keep James Jones but he will likely cost between 5 and 6 million per year, some of which they can back end, and it appears TT will allow Shields to test the market because I am assuming his agent is asking for a whole bunch of money. I also don't assume TT will offer EDS the kind of money he will likely ask so he too will be testing the market.

In my opinion, I would like to see Green Bay move on from a number of their defensive players because what they have now is not working - not chemistry wise, not team speed wise, and not production wise. Concentrate on strengthening the middle of the defense and perhaps better results will follow.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 4622
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick_gb wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
I agree, but that means that our cap space in play is closer to $16 million, excluding any cuts or restructures and taking the rookie pool out.


No. Remember, the Packers still have a little under 9.5 million to rollover according to Spotrac, so using RS's numbers that puts the Packers at closer to 30 million in cap space. I haven't crunched the numbers myself though, so those numbers are only as good as RS says they are.


Maybe I am reading your $30 wrong, is that before removing the amount desired to rollover into 2015 and the rookie pool? If both of those need to be taken out then we are pretty close, yours would be $18, mine was $16, factoring in some bonuses guys hit, a la Crosby, and the late season additions we made.


This is where I'm at. If I'm wrong, obviously things change, but as it stands, we've got 136,533,907 dollars to spend. That's the cap number, plus what we've rolled over from last season.

We'll subtract, 7,500,000 in roll over money, and 5,441,972 in rookie allocation. We've got 104,647,141 committed at the moment.

Unless my math is off, that leaves us with: 18,944,794

We've got zero big bodies on the defensive line, and zero TEs. Our #1 CB is also not under contract, neither is our starting center.


Roll overs are a yearly thing so why are you subtracting the 7.5 million? You can subtract last years roll over from this years roll over. I believe the Packers had like 10 million'ish or so in cap space so in essence they'd be rolling over 2.5 million not slashing 7.5 from their current cap.


If you subtract this year's roll over from last year's roll over, the money would be exactly the same. That 136 million number includes what we are able to spend because we rolled money over last year.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 4622
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick_gb wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
gbpacker40 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
gbpacker40 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
gbpacker40 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
gbpacker40 wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
WITH WHAT MONEY?



There is PLENTY of money to sign a few free agents. Like previously mentioned, the way contracts can be structured and restructured (Tramon) there is always room to play around. At one point we offered Raji 8 million but we know he will get less or not be here and people assume that money vanishes? The only MUST HAVE FA that we have is Shields. I think this defense is in for a major over-haul this year and FA's(not ours) will be part of that.

My dream player to get on FA would be...

Ward or Linval Joseph. (Likely, no)


There's 20 million in cash. Shields, and Ward take up 15 of that. What's the plan at Center and the defensive line?


I know we arent signing Ward or Joseph, simply a response to a dream signing. Im not even sure we sign Shields to be honest. And we have closer to 30 million at approx 27-28 mil. Take into account rookies we are about 21 million. Shields at 5-6 mil per year (assuming) and we are at 15 million to fill the roster. None of the other guys are irreplaceable outside of maybe EDS and possibly Raji. Even those 2 guys arent all that. Again, contracts can be structured in NUMEROUS ways that even the most cap tight team can make a play for a free agent or two.


You're insane if you think Shields is signing for anything close to 5 mil per year.


Do you always reply to someone that disagrees with you with an insult? Grow up. I don't believe his cap hit will be any higher than that and his SB/guaranteed money will be spread out over the course of the contract, escalating over time with a lower base salary. Again, I'm not even sure we DO sign him.


Don't say stupid things if you don't want people to call you out on it. Shields isn't going to be the 25th highest paid CB in the league next year. That doesn't include guys that are going going to be free agents like Tillman, Talib, Grimes, or DRC. Shields is going to get paid.


You have a serious "I-know-it-all-complex." Laughing You need to learn how to not be a [inappropriate/removed] every time someone disagrees with you. Learn what an opinion is. Again....read...Bolded.


I've tried rationalizing with him. It accomplishes nothing. If you have an opinion that he disagrees with, you're stupid, insane, or you're an idiot. Deal with it and move on.


That all stemmed because he posted Football 101. Yes I said it Football 101 breaking down plays in a thread and people praised him for teaching them beginners football. Now he thinks he's some sort of posting god and knows everything.

Fact is the list this guy provided isn't a bunch of huge contracts. Free Agents can certainly be added this year with out the "WITH WHAT MONEY" comment but if you're expecting a big time Free agent then it's not happening. Ted Thompson doesn't like over paying someone just to be apart of our Franchise. When you do that then you start setting the tempo that everyone will get theirs at the same degree he did and the argument "Well you over paid for him. What makes him better then me?" comments can start to stir. It's just not good for the Salary Cap books or the Locker room.

He'll stick to his ways if he dabbles in Free Agency and look for some bargains. Day 1 is not on the table for us nor is day 2 or 3.


I don't think I know everything, but I know a damn bit more than the people who think it's possible to sign these big money guys without selling our soul down the river.

This guy nailed it:

NormSizedMidget wrote:
All this talk about "how they can structure contracts" reminds me of when I got my first credit card and how I could buy whatever I want and thought it would never come back to bite me.
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Tongue-Splitter


Joined: 30 Aug 2013
Posts: 1316
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
I don't think I know everything, but I know a damn bit more than the people who think it's possible to sign these big money guys without selling our soul down the river.

This guy nailed it:

NormSizedMidget wrote:
All this talk about "how they can structure contracts" reminds me of when I got my first credit card and how I could buy whatever I want and thought it would never come back to bite me.

I don't think any single person in this thread suggested a big money guy. Or at the very least, I don't think anybody suggested more than one. The biggest one was Houston, and this team could absorb that kind of contract. It would take planning and losing most free agents other than Shields, but nothing outlandish has been suggested in this thread. I get upset as everybody when people suggest we sign Byrd and Orakpo, the two premier players at their position in this year's free agency, but suggesting the signing of one mid-upper tier guy and one mid-tier guy is not unheard of considering the money angle.

For the record, the only free agents I would want would be Ward, Clemons, McRay, Woodson, Mitchell or Stevie Brown. With the exception of Ward, all of them are very affordable. I just don't like the argument that there's no money for anybody else because there is money.
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AlexGreen#20


Joined: 13 Jun 2012
Posts: 4622
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tongue-Splitter wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
I don't think I know everything, but I know a damn bit more than the people who think it's possible to sign these big money guys without selling our soul down the river.

This guy nailed it:

NormSizedMidget wrote:
All this talk about "how they can structure contracts" reminds me of when I got my first credit card and how I could buy whatever I want and thought it would never come back to bite me.

I don't think any single person in this thread suggested a big money guy. Or at the very least, I don't think anybody suggested more than one. The biggest one was Houston, and this team could absorb that kind of contract. It would take planning and losing most free agents other than Shields, but nothing outlandish has been suggested in this thread. I get upset as everybody when people suggest we sign Byrd and Orakpo, the two premier players at their position in this year's free agency, but suggesting the signing of one mid-upper tier guy and one mid-tier guy is not unheard of considering the money angle.

For the record, the only free agents I would want would be Ward, Clemons, McRay, Woodson, Mitchell or Stevie Brown. With the exception of Ward, all of them are very affordable. I just don't like the argument that there's no money for anybody else because there is money.


How big of a contract do you think Houston is going to sign? he had a fantastic year. 300lbers who get after the QB see BIG money.

Ward is a pipe dream. Woodson sucks and is old. Stevie Brown is made of fine china. McCray is a genuine grade-A scrub, the best comparison is the bad Jarrett Bush.

Mike Mitchell is alright. I don't think he's even an option to be honest as I don't think the Panthers will let him go. Lester played alright for them but he's clearly lacking in some areas and Mitchell is just a flat out better player. Mitchell is a guy that you will have to take from another team, he will not be given up. That is expensive, and I doubt TT will pay that tax.
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mxr124


Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 765
Location: Dubuque, Ia.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tongue-Splitter wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
I don't think I know everything, but I know a damn bit more than the people who think it's possible to sign these big money guys without selling our soul down the river.

This guy nailed it:

NormSizedMidget wrote:
All this talk about "how they can structure contracts" reminds me of when I got my first credit card and how I could buy whatever I want and thought it would never come back to bite me.

I don't think any single person in this thread suggested a big money guy. I get upset as everybody when people suggest we sign Byrd and Orakpo, the two premier players at their position in this year's free agency, but suggesting the signing of one mid-upper tier guy and one mid-tier guy is not unheard of considering the money angle.


I listed Brian Orakpo as my choice. The question was... "Who is your DREAM addition?" And I answered as such. You can get upset with my answer all you want, but you're in the wrong thread if you want to talk about a reasonably priced addition. I'd be more than happy to do that too. Just not in this thread.
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rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick_gb wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
I agree, but that means that our cap space in play is closer to $16 million, excluding any cuts or restructures and taking the rookie pool out.


No. Remember, the Packers still have a little under 9.5 million to rollover according to Spotrac, so using RS's numbers that puts the Packers at closer to 30 million in cap space. I haven't crunched the numbers myself though, so those numbers are only as good as RS says they are.


Maybe I am reading your $30 wrong, is that before removing the amount desired to rollover into 2015 and the rookie pool? If both of those need to be taken out then we are pretty close, yours would be $18, mine was $16, factoring in some bonuses guys hit, a la Crosby, and the late season additions we made.


This is where I'm at. If I'm wrong, obviously things change, but as it stands, we've got 136,533,907 dollars to spend. That's the cap number, plus what we've rolled over from last season.

We'll subtract, 7,500,000 in roll over money, and 5,441,972 in rookie allocation. We've got 104,647,141 committed at the moment.

Unless my math is off, that leaves us with: 18,944,794

We've got zero big bodies on the defensive line, and zero TEs. Our #1 CB is also not under contract, neither is our starting center.


Roll overs are a yearly thing so why are you subtracting the 7.5 million? You can subtract last years roll over from this years roll over. I believe the Packers had like 10 million'ish or so in cap space so in essence they'd be rolling over 2.5 million not slashing 7.5 from their current cap.


Since the new CBA TT has been pretty conservative and has rolled over about $7 each year, at a minimum. He knows/knew when the cap went down the increases were/are going to be pretty minimal to start, so he protects himself by having money rolled over. The $7.5 is just a guess of what TT is going to try and rollover. Basically the working cap space number is our total available now minus the rookie pool minus what we expect TT to rollover to 2015. He certainly does not have to roll anything over to 2015, but previous years suggest otherwise.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1194
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:


I don't think I know everything, but I know a damn bit more than the people who think it's possible to sign these big money guys without selling our soul down the river.

This guy nailed it:

NormSizedMidget wrote:
All this talk about "how they can structure contracts" reminds me of when I got my first credit card and how I could buy whatever I want and thought it would never come back to bite me.


I'm glad someone got a kick out of that. I'm not a cap guy. I don't know a ton about how contracts work, but common sense tells me this.

A. Yes, I agree, we can probably work some cap magic and make one or two big contracts fit.

B. There will still be ramifications. If you can't fit in his average salary year one, IT DOESN'T FIT LATER ON. You're just setting yourself up for future problems.

I am not for selling the soul of this team for one or two good shots at a SB (because I don't believe in that theory).


I believe in the way we go about things. I just today read someone VERY upset that Kuhn made 2.5 mil or whatever it was last season. Then I noticed him post how we should be taking a look at signing "Jared Allen and Lamarr Houston." Yep, upset that we overpaid Kuhn by 750k but wants to give millions to Jared Allen to play in a 34. Makes sense.



If I had to put it one way, I personally believe people are just way too enamored with free agents. They're these big shiny toys and too many are mad we haven't had any offseason Christmases in a while. They don't really care to look at whether or not it's feasible or what consequences there may be. They just want a SB and they just know FA is the solution.


I get along with Tongue-Splitter but the dude swore just a few weeks ago you don't win with free agency, he had read the tea leaves and it doesn't help. We were the team of destiny. Now he's preaching we need it? I don't get it anymore. People are just knee jerk.
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rbens06


Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 745
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
CWood21 wrote:
rbens06 wrote:
I agree, but that means that our cap space in play is closer to $16 million, excluding any cuts or restructures and taking the rookie pool out.


No. Remember, the Packers still have a little under 9.5 million to rollover according to Spotrac, so using RS's numbers that puts the Packers at closer to 30 million in cap space. I haven't crunched the numbers myself though, so those numbers are only as good as RS says they are.


Maybe I am reading your $30 wrong, is that before removing the amount desired to rollover into 2015 and the rookie pool? If both of those need to be taken out then we are pretty close, yours would be $18, mine was $16, factoring in some bonuses guys hit, a la Crosby, and the late season additions we made.


This is where I'm at. If I'm wrong, obviously things change, but as it stands, we've got 136,533,907 dollars to spend. That's the cap number, plus what we've rolled over from last season.

We'll subtract, 7,500,000 in roll over money, and 5,441,972 in rookie allocation. We've got 104,647,141 committed at the moment.

Unless my math is off, that leaves us with: 18,944,794

We've got zero big bodies on the defensive line, and zero TEs. Our #1 CB is also not under contract, neither is our starting center.


Seems right, I think I factored in the bonuses for guys twice, I just assumed the raw numbers did not have it and then took that off the top.
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ugLymayNe


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 12175
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormSizedMidget wrote:
If I had to put it one way, I personally believe people are just way too enamored with free agents.


The only FA's I'm enamored with are Jarius Byrd and Arthur Jones(possibly Jason Worlids only because he was my draft crush a few years back). Those three guys would bring the Packers something they don't have - but I'm not expecting the Packers to even come close to getting one. Just doesn't fit with TT's MO and it doesn't fit with the cap space/future contracts the Packers have.


NormSizedMidget wrote:
People are just knee jerk.


Very much so. It's the offseason, Packer fans are usually the most ridiculous one's out there with overreacting and getting excited over nothing. I just hope the Packers get back to the way they went about their business from 06-08........TRADE BACK and solidify the depth. If the Packers traded back into the early 2nd but then pulled a trade like they did to get Casey Hayward(a 3rd and a 5th...probably will be more than that this time around) I would be ecstatic. I think the depth in the 2nd round is tremendous this year. Three picks in that area would do this team good and add talent where it's needed(to replace guys like Jennings, House, Taylor, etc).
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blankman0021


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OnWisconsin wrote:
AlexGreen#20 wrote:
WITH WHAT MONEY?


Contracts can be structured in so many ways it is not even funny.... Look at what A-Rod made this year and it goes down from there... There is always away


There is always a way to make it work...this year...but those "this year" contracts come back to bite teams in the butt. Look at the cap hell that the steelers have been fighting with the last few seasons. Yes, they've remained competitive, but if they chose a slightly better course of action with a few of those deals they could have kept a few more of their own and really dominated.

At the end of the day, this team is working around Rodgers and Matthews. They are going to take up 1/4 of our cap. We go as they go.

I agree that Orakpo is my dream signing for this D, but I just don't see a way we sign anybody of "worth" and bring Sam, Raji, or anybody else. If we see a big signing watch us let go of all of our FAs this year and roll with A LOT of rookie backups.
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svp


Joined: 11 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I member when Matt Flynn hit the market and the talk was trade for Orakpo.


good times.
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byzr


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the S position would be greatly helped if we could get a veteran center fielder who has range. drafting younger guys is a definite but a veteran would should be highly considered.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

svp wrote:
I member when Matt Flynn hit the market and the talk was trade for Orakpo.


good times.


I literally never heard that and I spend half my free time reading about the Packers.
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