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Bills Hire Jim Schwartz as Defensive Coordinator
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BlackandBlue


Joined: 01 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AlexGreen#20 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
Unless you have Albert Haynesworth in the middle prepare for some very frustrating bend and usually breaks defenses.


Didn't the Lions finish 1st in 3rd down percentage this year?


The Lions defense this year oscillated between outright dominance (they had an insane stretch against rushing attacks in the middle of the season) to complete ineffectiveness where they would allow huge plays, caused mainly by awful secondary play and exacerbated by an ability to get sacks up front.

To me, that's an indictment of coaching.
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ttitansfan4life


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TommyC376 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
TommyC376 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
Unless you have Albert Haynesworth in the middle prepare for some very frustrating bend and usually breaks defenses.
Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus are no slouches in the middle, Kyle Williams is more of a pass rushing DT, and Dareus is an all around DT, can stop the run and get to the passer.


Yeah, I watched Schwartz in his entire tenure here, and unless the front four is getting unbelievable pressure on the QB, his defense is going to get picked apart. It's a good gameplan against weak teams, but when you go up against good teams, bad things happen.
Well our starting DL is Mario Williams, Kyle Williams, Marcel Dareus, Jerry Hughes. All 4 do well in pass rushing. I'm going to assume he will throw in some exotic blitzes.


Well you're assuming wrong because that's not at all what Schwartz does. His LBs typically do not blitz very often if at all. His front 4 is where he wants pressure from. It's a classic bend but don't break D. Personally I always thought he was overrated as a DC. Haynesworth practically got him a HC job. Titans had some good players on those Ds(Bulluck, Vanden Bosch, Tulloch, Griffin, Finnegan, and Hope) but without Haynesworth, Schwartz wouldn't have been no where near successful.
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Thelonebillsfan


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mesa_Titan wrote:
TommyC376 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
Unless you have Albert Haynesworth in the middle prepare for some very frustrating bend and usually breaks defenses.
Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus are no slouches in the middle, Kyle Williams is more of a pass rushing DT, and Dareus is an all around DT, can stop the run and get to the passer.


Yeah, I watched Schwartz in his entire tenure here, and unless the front four is getting unbelievable pressure on the QB, his defense is going to get picked apart. It's a good gameplan against weak teams, but when you go up against good teams, bad things happen.


Oh good it's Dave Wannstedt all over again. And we all know how well THAT little experiment went.

The more I think about it the less I like this hire. This better not cost us yet another year of no playoffs, I'm done waiting.
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TommyC376


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thelonebillsfan wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
TommyC376 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
Unless you have Albert Haynesworth in the middle prepare for some very frustrating bend and usually breaks defenses.
Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus are no slouches in the middle, Kyle Williams is more of a pass rushing DT, and Dareus is an all around DT, can stop the run and get to the passer.


Yeah, I watched Schwartz in his entire tenure here, and unless the front four is getting unbelievable pressure on the QB, his defense is going to get picked apart. It's a good gameplan against weak teams, but when you go up against good teams, bad things happen.


Oh good it's Dave Wannstedt all over again. And we all know how well THAT little experiment went.

The more I think about it the less I like this hire. This better not cost us yet another year of no playoffs, I'm done waiting.
I wouldn't take what everyone says on this site as final word. Marrone wouldn't have hired him if he thought he was going to have a vanilla defense. It's been 5 years since he was a DC, he could, I repeat could, tweak his philosophy.
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Thelonebillsfan


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TommyC376 wrote:
Thelonebillsfan wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
TommyC376 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
Unless you have Albert Haynesworth in the middle prepare for some very frustrating bend and usually breaks defenses.
Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus are no slouches in the middle, Kyle Williams is more of a pass rushing DT, and Dareus is an all around DT, can stop the run and get to the passer.


Yeah, I watched Schwartz in his entire tenure here, and unless the front four is getting unbelievable pressure on the QB, his defense is going to get picked apart. It's a good gameplan against weak teams, but when you go up against good teams, bad things happen.


Oh good it's Dave Wannstedt all over again. And we all know how well THAT little experiment went.

The more I think about it the less I like this hire. This better not cost us yet another year of no playoffs, I'm done waiting.
I wouldn't take what everyone says on this site as final word. Marrone wouldn't have hired him if he thought he was going to have a vanilla defense. It's been 5 years since he was a DC, he could, I repeat could, tweak his philosophy.


I mean, he'd better. This D works best when all it's pieces get to move around, just rushing 4 every time and hoping we get enough pressure with that isn't how to maximize this teams efficiency. If all he does is a bend but don't break defense then I expect to see a lot of breaking. Since that dynamic playmaking and attack philosophy is why our defense was so good last year.
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ttitansfan4life


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Bills fans wanted someone aggressive and overall a much better defensive coach, they should've brought Gregg Williams back in. Schwartz doesnt blitz much....
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marshawn lynch


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
marshawn lynch wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
So the Detroit Lions Wide 9 defense will be heading to Buffalo? They have the interior line to run this defense, that seems to be the biggest issue, having those stout players in the middle to let the ends rush up field. I'd imagine that they will need a DE opposite of Mario Williams.

A player like Manny Lawson probably doesnt fit.


Jerry Hughes had 10 sacks opposite of Mario this year...

My problem with this is we will probably lose a lot of our blitzing packages but I still think he could be a successful DC here.


He is a free agent too.


No he isn't. He has another year in Buffalo. But we do have to lock him up after the next season.
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D.Revis24


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TommyC376 wrote:
D.Revis24 wrote:
TommyC376 wrote:
I have to assume that he is going to tweak his system a little bit, you look at the success we had by blitzing, I think he would try and work the "exotic" blitzes into his scheme.



Doubtful, he'll probably lean more towards the 4 man rushes. He'll run his scheme.
Just curious what makes you think that?



That he'll run his scheme? Because why wouldn't he run his defense? You don't hire a experienced coach like Schwartz to run someone else's defense. The Bills probably think that they will do fine with 4 man rushes.
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Beast M0de


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D.Revis24 wrote:
TommyC376 wrote:
D.Revis24 wrote:
TommyC376 wrote:
I have to assume that he is going to tweak his system a little bit, you look at the success we had by blitzing, I think he would try and work the "exotic" blitzes into his scheme.



Doubtful, he'll probably lean more towards the 4 man rushes. He'll run his scheme.
Just curious what makes you think that?



That he'll run his scheme? Because why wouldn't he run his defense? You don't hire a experienced coach like Schwartz to run someone else's defense. The Bills probably think that they will do fine with 4 man rushes.


Which they should. If there's one team that can run a jim schwartz defense it will be this unit. The bills without a doubt have the best pass rushing front 4. Dareus, Kyle Williams, super mario and jerry Hughes all ended up with 8.0 sacks or more; with 3 making the pro bowl
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mesa_Titan wrote:
TommyC376 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
Unless you have Albert Haynesworth in the middle prepare for some very frustrating bend and usually breaks defenses.
Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus are no slouches in the middle, Kyle Williams is more of a pass rushing DT, and Dareus is an all around DT, can stop the run and get to the passer.


Yeah, I watched Schwartz in his entire tenure here, and unless the front four is getting unbelievable pressure on the QB, his defense is going to get picked apart. It's a good gameplan against weak teams, but when you go up against good teams, bad things happen.


Sounds like Jeff Fisher's brilliant scheme.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the Bills can get pressure constantly with their front four, then they have the playmaking DB's (even without Bryd) to create turnovers. However, if they don't get constant pressure this defense will look a lot like 2012.

I like this hire, but I am very interested to see how vanilla Schwartz decides to be.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlackandBlue wrote:
The Lions finally are above average on defense during Schwartz's tenure, and it came this year, after we stopped running so much wide 9 and blitzing more- basically, when he stopped having so much control over the defensive scheme.
We were the least blitzing team in the NFL IIRC. Also he was more hands on this year, which is why we improved.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
TommyC376 wrote:
Mesa_Titan wrote:
Unless you have Albert Haynesworth in the middle prepare for some very frustrating bend and usually breaks defenses.
Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus are no slouches in the middle, Kyle Williams is more of a pass rushing DT, and Dareus is an all around DT, can stop the run and get to the passer.


Yeah, I watched Schwartz in his entire tenure here, and unless the front four is getting unbelievable pressure on the QB, his defense is going to get picked apart. It's a good gameplan against weak teams, but when you go up against good teams, bad things happen.


Sounds like Jeff Fisher's brilliant scheme.
Prolly. Jim is from his tree.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this hire. Love Schwartz as a coordinator, no so much as a head coach. Curious to see how they run scheme with the players they have; isn't this a bit of a departure from what they do now?
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember when Schwartz went to Detroit a lot of us (Titans fans) said we thought he could be one of those guys that would be a better head coach than coordinator, because he was never really special as a coordinator. I wouldn't call him a bad DC, but his units were always pretty much average to below average with the exception of the two years in which Haynesworth was the best defensive player in football.

Defensive rankings under Schwartz
Points
2001 - 25th
2002 - 11th
2003 - 13th
2004 - 30th
2005 - 29th
2006 - 31st
2007 - 8th
2008 - 2nd

Yardage
2001 - 25th
2002 - 10th
2003 - 12th
2004 - 27th
2005 - 17th
2006 - 32nd
2007 - 5th
2008 - 7th

So yes, if you have the most dominant defender in football, you're in good shape, otherwise, there's not much special about him.
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