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The Turner Effect: what will our offense look like?
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CDub


Joined: 01 Oct 2012
Posts: 538
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
I want Manziel or Garropolo in purple.


so you want longterm developmental QBs in purple, that should sit for atleast 3 years before starting?

Thats not happening.


Disagree strongly. No QB gets that, good coaching and a solid veteran qb to bring them along will do the trick, both of which we have in Zimmer/Norv and Cassel who fits Norv's system imo.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CDub wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
I want Manziel or Garropolo in purple.


so you want longterm developmental QBs in purple, that should sit for atleast 3 years before starting?

Thats not happening.


Disagree strongly. No QB gets that, good coaching and a solid veteran qb to bring them along will do the trick, both of which we have in Zimmer/Norv and Cassel who fits Norv's system imo.


I don't see Cassel being a viable option for 3 years. If we do keep him as the starter for that long, and draft one of these two QBs, Zimmer and Spielman will be gone.

I should also note that while I think Garrapolo can be a good QB with some time on the bench, I think Manziel will be a huge bust, and does not fit our style of offense. When I watch Manziel, it baffles me that anyone could even consider him a 1st round pick.
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CDub


Joined: 01 Oct 2012
Posts: 538
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
CDub wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
I want Manziel or Garropolo in purple.


so you want longterm developmental QBs in purple, that should sit for atleast 3 years before starting?

Thats not happening.


Disagree strongly. No QB gets that, good coaching and a solid veteran qb to bring them along will do the trick, both of which we have in Zimmer/Norv and Cassel who fits Norv's system imo.


I don't see Cassel being a viable option for 3 years. If we do keep him as the starter for that long, and draft one of these two QBs, Zimmer and Spielman will be gone.

I should also note that while I think Garrapolo can be a good QB with some time on the bench, I think Manziel will be a huge bust, and does not fit our style of offense. When I watch Manziel, it baffles me that anyone could even consider him a 1st round pick.


You saying that they need 3 years is ridiculous. A half a year to a year of sitting back and learning while having 2 NFL off-seasons is plenty.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I generally agree, the time of sitting a rookie QB for 2-3 years are over. Teams need results, jobs are on the line, you have to figure out what you have in that QB.

There might be a rare circumstance of a HOF QB playing while a QB develops for 2-3 years (Brock Osweiller, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers), but these examples are more the exception to the norm.
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Klomp


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vikingsrule wrote:
I generally agree, the time of sitting a rookie QB for 2-3 years are over. Teams need results, jobs are on the line, you have to figure out what you have in that QB.

There might be a rare circumstance of a HOF QB playing while a QB develops for 2-3 years (Brock Osweiller, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers), but these examples are more the exception to the norm.


That has more to do IMO with coaches fearing for their jobs though IMO.

You could also throw Kaepernick in as an example, who sat for 25 weeks before taking the reigns.
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jam8891


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
I want Manziel or Garropolo in purple.


so you want longterm developmental QBs in purple, that should sit for atleast 3 years before starting?

Thats not happening.


.. Yes... Those 2 QB's are who I would like to see in a Vikings uniform. Kind of why i posted the statement. In my opinion, 2 to 3 years of developing a qb are long gone. Unless you have a suitable or at least decent quarterback already on the team. (which we don't have. Cassell is...ok i guess) A drafted QB with expectations by the team to start soon, will get half a year, maybe a full year if we're lucky and Cassell plays very well.
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CDub


Joined: 01 Oct 2012
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Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klomp wrote:
vikingsrule wrote:
I generally agree, the time of sitting a rookie QB for 2-3 years are over. Teams need results, jobs are on the line, you have to figure out what you have in that QB.

There might be a rare circumstance of a HOF QB playing while a QB develops for 2-3 years (Brock Osweiller, Aaron Rodgers, Philip Rivers), but these examples are more the exception to the norm.


That has more to do IMO with coaches fearing for their jobs though IMO.

You could also throw Kaepernick in as an example, who sat for 25 weeks before taking the reigns.


Who had Alex Smith ahead of him who lead there team to a Conference Championship and a good year before getting hurt in 2012...

We don't have that, unless Cassel just amazes under Norv.
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CDub wrote:
Who had Alex Smith ahead of him who lead there team to a Conference Championship and a good year before getting hurt in 2012...

We don't have that, unless Cassel just amazes under Norv.


Saying that Smith led them to a conference championship is like saying Ponder led us to the playoffs in 2012.
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CDub


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Klomp wrote:
CDub wrote:
Who had Alex Smith ahead of him who lead there team to a Conference Championship and a good year before getting hurt in 2012...

We don't have that, unless Cassel just amazes under Norv.


Saying that Smith led them to a conference championship is like saying Ponder led us to the playoffs in 2012.


Didn't exactly mean it that way, more so that he was the QB and that's generally how you phrase it. He was still very, very solid in 2011 and 2012.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CDub wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
CDub wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
I want Manziel or Garropolo in purple.


so you want longterm developmental QBs in purple, that should sit for atleast 3 years before starting?

Thats not happening.


Disagree strongly. No QB gets that, good coaching and a solid veteran qb to bring them along will do the trick, both of which we have in Zimmer/Norv and Cassel who fits Norv's system imo.


I don't see Cassel being a viable option for 3 years. If we do keep him as the starter for that long, and draft one of these two QBs, Zimmer and Spielman will be gone.

I should also note that while I think Garrapolo can be a good QB with some time on the bench, I think Manziel will be a huge bust, and does not fit our style of offense. When I watch Manziel, it baffles me that anyone could even consider him a 1st round pick.


You saying that they need 3 years is ridiculous. A half a year to a year of sitting back and learning while having 2 NFL off-seasons is plenty.


Regardless, if either of those 2 want to enjoy any sort of success in this league, they are going to have to wait for it to come. I just can't see them right out of the gate be great players.

Now, can you agree to that?
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CDub


Joined: 01 Oct 2012
Posts: 538
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
CDub wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
CDub wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
I want Manziel or Garropolo in purple.


so you want longterm developmental QBs in purple, that should sit for atleast 3 years before starting?

Thats not happening.


Disagree strongly. No QB gets that, good coaching and a solid veteran qb to bring them along will do the trick, both of which we have in Zimmer/Norv and Cassel who fits Norv's system imo.


I don't see Cassel being a viable option for 3 years. If we do keep him as the starter for that long, and draft one of these two QBs, Zimmer and Spielman will be gone.

I should also note that while I think Garrapolo can be a good QB with some time on the bench, I think Manziel will be a huge bust, and does not fit our style of offense. When I watch Manziel, it baffles me that anyone could even consider him a 1st round pick.


You saying that they need 3 years is ridiculous. A half a year to a year of sitting back and learning while having 2 NFL off-seasons is plenty.


Regardless, if either of those 2 want to enjoy any sort of success in this league, they are going to have to wait for it to come. I just can't see them right out of the gate be great players.

Now, can you agree to that?


Yeah, I can probably agree with that. A lot of QB's generally should get at least a half a year to a year to sit back and learn the game under some vets though. Not very many come into the league NFL ready and can take the reigns from the get go with great success.
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jam8891


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CDub wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
CDub wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
CDub wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
jam8891 wrote:
I want Manziel or Garropolo in purple.


so you want longterm developmental QBs in purple, that should sit for atleast 3 years before starting?

Thats not happening.


Disagree strongly. No QB gets that, good coaching and a solid veteran qb to bring them along will do the trick, both of which we have in Zimmer/Norv and Cassel who fits Norv's system imo.


I don't see Cassel being a viable option for 3 years. If we do keep him as the starter for that long, and draft one of these two QBs, Zimmer and Spielman will be gone.

I should also note that while I think Garrapolo can be a good QB with some time on the bench, I think Manziel will be a huge bust, and does not fit our style of offense. When I watch Manziel, it baffles me that anyone could even consider him a 1st round pick.


You saying that they need 3 years is ridiculous. A half a year to a year of sitting back and learning while having 2 NFL off-seasons is plenty.


Regardless, if either of those 2 want to enjoy any sort of success in this league, they are going to have to wait for it to come. I just can't see them right out of the gate be great players.

Now, can you agree to that?


Yeah, I can probably agree with that. A lot of QB's generally should get at least a half a year to a year to sit back and learn the game under some vets though. Not very many come into the league NFL ready and can take the reigns from the get go with great success.


I honestly dont see Manziel being a bust at all. In fact, I see the opposite.

I would be ecstatic if we were to land Manziel. But thats just my opinion.
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SteelKing728


Joined: 23 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gil Brandt compared John Manziel to a "better" Fran Tarkenton.

I guess I could see that, but I don't see a "better" Fran Tarkenton being a dominant QB in today's game.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SteelKing728 wrote:
Gil Brandt compared John Manziel to a "better" Fran Tarkenton.

obviously it's tough, if not meaningless, for an analyst to compare different players from different eras with almost 40 years between them, but saying a rookie will be better than Tark is a tall order.

seeing that Tarkenton retired at the end of his career holding every major NFL passing record there was.

anyone think Manziel will do that...?
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Klomp


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
SteelKing728 wrote:
Gil Brandt compared John Manziel to a "better" Fran Tarkenton.

obviously it's tough, if not meaningless, for an analyst to compare different players from different eras with almost 40 years between them, but saying a rookie will be better than Tark is a tall order.

seeing that Tarkenton retired at the end of his career holding every major NFL passing record there was.

anyone think Manziel will do that...?


Like you said, different eras. Comparisons like these are more about skillsets than predicting how good someone is going to be.
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