Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Vikings Draft Discussion 4.0
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 72, 73, 74 ... 98, 99, 100  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Minnesota Vikings
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
battle2heaven


Joined: 10 Jan 2014
Posts: 776
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJpillz317 wrote:
battle2heaven wrote:
swiss_vike wrote:
What worries me about Carr is his throwing off the back foot. A consistent and visible flaw. And what worries me even more is that he didn't improve this in 3 years.

I don't like QB @ 8 unless it's Teddy. And I'm pretty sure we won't get on @ 8. I could see a trade down for amo, then a trade up into late first to jump over the QB needy teams in early 2nd...as I think the QB frenzy will start there.


In my opinion, the Fresno St Air Raid offense made Carr sacrifice mechanics for results. What I mean by this is, the offense is predicated on getting the ball out as quickly as possible; often times with a free pass rusher closing in on you. Carr has such an elite arm, it was probably a necessary evil to sacrifice the footwork to make sure the ball gets to the receivers as soon as possible.

Also in 2012, he played the entire season with an abdominal tear. He was a little skittish then because he was protecting the injury.

Here is a good article about the injury and how it affected Carr.
[url]
http://www.mwcconnection.com/2013/7/24/4554408/derek-carr-2012-abdominal-tear[/url]

Quote:
Fresno State quarterback Derek Carr was one of the best quarterbacks in all of FBS last year, as he threw for 4,104 yards and 37 touchdowns while leading the Bulldogs to a three-way share of the Mountain West title. Carr also was named the Mountain West offensive player of the year in 2012. He did all of that while playing the entire season with a torn abdominal muscle, which he suffered in fall camp.

That is right, Carr had one of the best seasons for a quarterback and he had a torn muscle which required surgery in January. Carr did not want to tell any of his teammates because he did not want to distract the team. Only the coaches and training staff knew about the injury, and three weeks into the 2012 season the staff had to change how they handled practice as to not hurt Carr any further.

Carr said that it hurt to sneeze and he was always in pain. Also due to the injury the offense was unable to do any zone reads, roll outs and even some play action was unable to be called due to his injury. That apparently is a big chunk of the playbook that went unused for the majority of the season.

Criticism for Carr last year was that he had trouble getting out of the pocket when pressure came, and now it makes more sense that he could not move around due to being injured.

I'm tired of the excuses, this is Ponder 2.0 coming outta FSU.


What excuses? He still won the MWC player of the year in 2012 with a torn ab muscle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jshowers


Joined: 03 May 2013
Posts: 12843
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJpillz317 wrote:
jshowers wrote:
If Matt Stafford was available at 8 this year, would you take him?
No. He's a one-dimensional overrated QB. Wouldn't be squat without Megatron too.


Or is your real answer "No, because it doesn't agree with my anti-Carr agenda"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rpmwr19


Moderator
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 24966
Location: Stillwater, MN
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^

That's because there is virtually no basis for the comparison.
_________________
RPMs Viking Roster/Cap Tracker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AQuintus


Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 1326
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJpillz317 wrote:

I'm tired of the excuses, this is Ponder 2.0 coming outta FSU.


Even if all other aspects of their game were the same (and they aren't), Carr still has a substantially better (not a little better, not a bit better, a substantial amount better) arm than Ponder, and that's not something that can be ignored.


Last edited by AQuintus on Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rpmwr19


Moderator
Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 24966
Location: Stillwater, MN
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jshowers,

When did you come full circle on Carr? I remember you by being very high on him early in the eval process.

Edit: should say, not very high on him.
_________________
RPMs Viking Roster/Cap Tracker
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DJpillz317


Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 682
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AQuintus wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:

I'm tired of the excuses, this is Ponder 2.0 coming outta FSU.


Even if all other aspects of their game were the same (and they aren't), Carr still has a substantially better (not a little better, not a bit better, a substantial amount better) arm than Poner, and that's not something that can be ignored.
And that's literally it. It was the same story for Ponder. Great guy off the field. Played games with injury all season. Had a great senior bowl. Family dude. Very smart. High IQ. He's Ponder with an arm guys; I'd argue Ponder is still a better pure passer when it comes to the intermediate game. Carr can't hit a receiver in stride to save his life, every ball he throws the receiver has to adjust unless it's a screen pass or a deep ball in the bread basket.
_________________

Prediction: Derek Carr = next Brandon Weeden; Zach Mett will be a good starter; Manziel will be a STAR.
Blake Bortles is going to be a Viking
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jshowers


Joined: 03 May 2013
Posts: 12843
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
Jshowers,

When did you come full circle on Carr? I remember you by being very high on him early in the eval process.


I wasn't high on him initially. The first thing I do is watch every game available to get a general feel. Then I go back and chart every throw in terms of pure pocket movement and awareness behind the LOS without regards to the throw. Then I go back and chart the trajectory, velocity, and end result of every pass.

In terms of operating in the pocket and pre-throw, Carr really bothered me with his skittishness/ghost pressure tendencies and the frequency where he throws from his back foot/leaning his trunk backwards. I thought it made him a pure developmental guy. I still think he's more developmental than immediate-impact.

But going back through and actually analyzing the ball once it leaves the release point on his throws, I realized that his arm is just outstanding. Throws with + velocity, + accuracy, and ++ range from any arm angle/body momentum. Basically I came to the conclusion that he has the rare shoulder flexibility and wrist strength (which makes him a great natural passer) to be a successful pro even if his presence/pre-throw issues remain.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DJpillz317


Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 682
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jshowers wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:
jshowers wrote:
If Matt Stafford was available at 8 this year, would you take him?
No. He's a one-dimensional overrated QB. Wouldn't be squat without Megatron too.


Or is your real answer "No, because it doesn't agree with my anti-Carr agenda"

No, he's just an overpaid overrated QB who throws 40-50 times a game and has the best receiver since Jerry Rice (if not better). And he chokes. I'm glad the Lions overpaid him, will make winning our division easier! Smile
_________________

Prediction: Derek Carr = next Brandon Weeden; Zach Mett will be a good starter; Manziel will be a STAR.
Blake Bortles is going to be a Viking
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duff Man


Joined: 05 May 2013
Posts: 556
Location: Sveltville
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJpillz317 wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:

I'm tired of the excuses, this is Ponder 2.0 coming outta FSU.


Even if all other aspects of their game were the same (and they aren't), Carr still has a substantially better (not a little better, not a bit better, a substantial amount better) arm than Poner, and that's not something that can be ignored.
And that's literally it. It was the same story for Ponder. Great guy off the field. Played games with injury all season. Had a great senior bowl. Family dude. Very smart. High IQ. He's Ponder with an arm guys; I'd argue Ponder is still a better pure passer when it comes to the intermediate game. Carr can't hit a receiver in stride to save his life, every ball he throws the receiver has to adjust unless it's a screen pass or a deep ball in the bread basket.


Anybody who is a great guy off field, has played through an injury before, and possesses a high IQ is now very much the same player as Christian Ponder?


Lol this is just plain obnoxious man, Ponder and Carr are just about polar opposites.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DJpillz317


Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 682
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duff Man wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:

I'm tired of the excuses, this is Ponder 2.0 coming outta FSU.


Even if all other aspects of their game were the same (and they aren't), Carr still has a substantially better (not a little better, not a bit better, a substantial amount better) arm than Poner, and that's not something that can be ignored.
And that's literally it. It was the same story for Ponder. Great guy off the field. Played games with injury all season. Had a great senior bowl. Family dude. Very smart. High IQ. He's Ponder with an arm guys; I'd argue Ponder is still a better pure passer when it comes to the intermediate game. Carr can't hit a receiver in stride to save his life, every ball he throws the receiver has to adjust unless it's a screen pass or a deep ball in the bread basket.


Anybody who is a great guy off field, has played through an injury before, and possesses a high IQ is now very much the same player as Christian Ponder?


Lol this is just plain obnoxious man, Ponder and Carr are just about polar opposites.

Those are great assets; what I'm saying is don't let those distract you from the on field play. This kid has amazing stats, but fails the "eye test" if you will. If he can improve his foot work, throwing motion/delivery, and work on hitting receivers in the right windows, this kid could be Brett fricken Favre. But he's not. He's a huge project. I wouldn't touch a project past the mid second round.
_________________

Prediction: Derek Carr = next Brandon Weeden; Zach Mett will be a good starter; Manziel will be a STAR.
Blake Bortles is going to be a Viking
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duff Man


Joined: 05 May 2013
Posts: 556
Location: Sveltville
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJpillz317 wrote:
Duff Man wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:

I'm tired of the excuses, this is Ponder 2.0 coming outta FSU.


Even if all other aspects of their game were the same (and they aren't), Carr still has a substantially better (not a little better, not a bit better, a substantial amount better) arm than Poner, and that's not something that can be ignored.
And that's literally it. It was the same story for Ponder. Great guy off the field. Played games with injury all season. Had a great senior bowl. Family dude. Very smart. High IQ. He's Ponder with an arm guys; I'd argue Ponder is still a better pure passer when it comes to the intermediate game. Carr can't hit a receiver in stride to save his life, every ball he throws the receiver has to adjust unless it's a screen pass or a deep ball in the bread basket.


Anybody who is a great guy off field, has played through an injury before, and possesses a high IQ is now very much the same player as Christian Ponder?


Lol this is just plain obnoxious man, Ponder and Carr are just about polar opposites.

Those are great assets; what I'm saying is don't let those distract you from the on field play. This kid has amazing stats, but fails the "eye test" if you will. If he can improve his foot work, throwing motion/delivery, and work on hitting receivers in the right windows, this kid could be Brett fricken Favre. But he's not. He's a huge project. I wouldn't touch a project past the mid second round.


In terms of the comparison, though, they are nothing alike. I would appreciate it if you stopped spewing that out.

And I can agree with the footwork issue, however I don't really see much
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Duff Man


Joined: 05 May 2013
Posts: 556
Location: Sveltville
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJpillz317 wrote:
Duff Man wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:

I'm tired of the excuses, this is Ponder 2.0 coming outta FSU.


Even if all other aspects of their game were the same (and they aren't), Carr still has a substantially better (not a little better, not a bit better, a substantial amount better) arm than Poner, and that's not something that can be ignored.
And that's literally it. It was the same story for Ponder. Great guy off the field. Played games with injury all season. Had a great senior bowl. Family dude. Very smart. High IQ. He's Ponder with an arm guys; I'd argue Ponder is still a better pure passer when it comes to the intermediate game. Carr can't hit a receiver in stride to save his life, every ball he throws the receiver has to adjust unless it's a screen pass or a deep ball in the bread basket.


Anybody who is a great guy off field, has played through an injury before, and possesses a high IQ is now very much the same player as Christian Ponder?


Lol this is just plain obnoxious man, Ponder and Carr are just about polar opposites.

Those are great assets; what I'm saying is don't let those distract you from the on field play. This kid has amazing stats, but fails the "eye test" if you will. If he can improve his foot work, throwing motion/delivery, and work on hitting receivers in the right windows, this kid could be Brett fricken Favre. But he's not. He's a huge project. I wouldn't touch a project past the mid second round.


In terms of the comparison, though, they are nothing alike. I would appreciate it if you stopped spewing that out.

And I can agree with the footwork issue, however I don't really see too much wrong with his delivery/throwing motion. Has a smooth release, and seems to put great spin on the ball.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DJpillz317


Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 682
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duff Man wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:
Duff Man wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:
AQuintus wrote:
DJpillz317 wrote:

I'm tired of the excuses, this is Ponder 2.0 coming outta FSU.


Even if all other aspects of their game were the same (and they aren't), Carr still has a substantially better (not a little better, not a bit better, a substantial amount better) arm than Poner, and that's not something that can be ignored.
And that's literally it. It was the same story for Ponder. Great guy off the field. Played games with injury all season. Had a great senior bowl. Family dude. Very smart. High IQ. He's Ponder with an arm guys; I'd argue Ponder is still a better pure passer when it comes to the intermediate game. Carr can't hit a receiver in stride to save his life, every ball he throws the receiver has to adjust unless it's a screen pass or a deep ball in the bread basket.


Anybody who is a great guy off field, has played through an injury before, and possesses a high IQ is now very much the same player as Christian Ponder?


Lol this is just plain obnoxious man, Ponder and Carr are just about polar opposites.

Those are great assets; what I'm saying is don't let those distract you from the on field play. This kid has amazing stats, but fails the "eye test" if you will. If he can improve his foot work, throwing motion/delivery, and work on hitting receivers in the right windows, this kid could be Brett fricken Favre. But he's not. He's a huge project. I wouldn't touch a project past the mid second round.


In terms of the comparison, though, they are nothing alike. I would appreciate it if you stopped spewing that out.

And I can agree with the footwork issue, however I don't really see much

They're two very different QBs, what I'm saying is, the same mistake shouldn't be made on Carr as was with Ponder. We all know Ponder was a round 2 guy. Carr is a round 2 guy. Will he drop come draft day? I'd almost put money on it. BUT teams like the Jags, Viks, and Titans, like in 2011, will reach unfortunately due to people seeing "potential." There's too much risk wasting a high pick on potential. We have huge needs at G and LB that can be filled at 8.
_________________

Prediction: Derek Carr = next Brandon Weeden; Zach Mett will be a good starter; Manziel will be a STAR.
Blake Bortles is going to be a Viking
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AQuintus


Joined: 16 Oct 2012
Posts: 1326
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colin Kaepernick was a round 2 QB. Russell Wilson was a round 3 QB. Tom Brady was a round 6 QB.

I'd have zero issue taking any one of those guys at #8 this year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DJpillz317


Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 682
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AQuintus wrote:
Colin Kaepernick was a round 2 QB. Russell Wilson was a round 3 QB. Tom Brady was a round 6 QB.

I'd have zero issue taking any one of those guys at #8 this year.
RW3 should have been a first rounder, but Kaep and Brady were drafted on their potential/risk. That doesn't excuse reaching on a QB.
_________________

Prediction: Derek Carr = next Brandon Weeden; Zach Mett will be a good starter; Manziel will be a STAR.
Blake Bortles is going to be a Viking
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Minnesota Vikings All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 72, 73, 74 ... 98, 99, 100  Next
Page 73 of 100

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group