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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 398
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

9erNation2013 wrote:
I don't think the window is closing at all. However, I think it will get tighter. For years we were the laughing stock of the league. We finally get a quality coach like Harbaugh and what happens? Seattle becomes mega good. My only concern moving forward is not how good we will be but will Seattle reamin dominant. If so, then we are in trouble. Not saying I want a cake-walk by any means in the division but I would mind some dominance...lol.


Seattle will have to continue to hit on draft picks though. Then thing about their roster versus ours is that all their talent was acquired around the same time. Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Wagner, Wright, Bryant, Chancellor, Tate, and Okung were drafted withing a two year window. Guys like Willis, VD, Gore, and Cowboy were here through the lean years. Their extension were granted long before JH became coach. We just added to our neucleus team with the great 2011 draft, where we acquired Aldon, CK, Cully, Miller, and Kilgore and Hunter. So our commitment to extending key personnel was spread out and were able to get some guys extended before they really blew up(Boone, Ray Mac, Brooks). Schneider will have some tough decisions moving forward because all those guys can't get paid and all are due extensions around the same time. They've already gave extenstions to Kam and Bryant. They've committed a lot of cap space to Harvin and as much as I like him as a player, he has yet to prove he can get through a full-season healthy. So the jury is still out about how much of that young nucleus will still be there in two years.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
9erNation2013 wrote:
I don't think the window is closing at all. However, I think it will get tighter. For years we were the laughing stock of the league. We finally get a quality coach like Harbaugh and what happens? Seattle becomes mega good. My only concern moving forward is not how good we will be but will Seattle reamin dominant. If so, then we are in trouble. Not saying I want a cake-walk by any means in the division but I would mind some dominance...lol.


Seattle will have to continue to hit on draft picks though. Then thing about their roster versus ours is that all their talent was acquired around the same time. Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Wagner, Wright, Bryant, Chancellor, Tate, and Okung were drafted withing a two year window. Guys like Willis, VD, Gore, and Cowboy were here through the lean years. Their extension were granted long before JH became coach. We just added to our neucleus team with the great 2011 draft, where we acquired Aldon, CK, Cully, Miller, and Kilgore and Hunter. So our commitment to extending key personnel was spread out and were able to get some guys extended before they really blew up(Boone, Ray Mac, Brooks). Schneider will have some tough decisions moving forward because all those guys can't get paid and all are due extensions around the same time. They've already gave extenstions to Kam and Bryant. They've committed a lot of cap space to Harvin and as much as I like him as a player, he has yet to prove he can get through a full-season healthy. So the jury is still out about how much of that young nucleus will still be there in two years.



Who knows, maybe Sherman will end up in prison after starting one too many fight, and Russell Wilson's dark secret will come out (I'm guessing, he's an alien. He will be taken away by the government and experimented on, and our memory will be erased and replaced by the two years NFL strike that happened merely a year after its last strike...).
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
- We might not be able to afford Crabs, we might want to afford Crabs, and I've always thought he would prefer to be elsewhere


Why do a lot of people think Crabs wants out of SF? He seems pretty happy and has a great relationship with Kap, VD, and all the guys.


Pure speculation on my part. But football in the south is different from here. He grew up being completely idolized. He probably also grew up wanting to be a Cowboy. And if he becomes a Cowboy he'd probably be idolized again. I know he wants money, but being idolized again might be high on his list too. On top of that, we have one of the worst passing offenses in the league and he'll probably never get the acclaim here that he could elsewhere, and that he probably thinks he deserves. It's just a guess on my part, but I see no reason he wouldn't be just as happy elsewhere, and conceivably a whole lot happier.
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
Our window is OPENING, not closing. Pats have gotten to the conference championship for the past 10 years it seems. Nobidy talks about windows closing wih The Hoody and Brady. All our key peices are locked up long term, except for Aldon and CK. And those who aren't are either are on the tail-end of their career(Gore) and have younger guys ready to replace them already waiting in the wings(Goodwin, Rogers).

We have one of the most dynamic QBs in the league, who should only improve going forward. One of the best coaches in the biz. One of the best GMs in the biz. A helluva football staff on every level. And 13 draft picks to play with yet again for a very loaded draft. Might not happen for Gore and Cowboy and that will be a real shame but we'll defintely be in the thick of things for the forseeable future.

Enough with this 'our window is closing' crap. One loss and the fanbase is in full panic mode. We're fine. Actually, we're more than fine...we're a lot better off than most.


The days of dynasties are long gone. The typical window for a group a guys that are assembled into a team is 3 or 4 years these days before the salary cap starts making teams lose key components, or not be able to fill them with quality free agents because they've paid their stars so much that they have no money left for others.

- Many here have long thought we wouldn't be able to afford both Willis and Bowman
- We might not be able to afford Crabs, we might want to afford Crabs, and I've always thought he would prefer to be elsewhere
- Kap hasn't won it all yet and if he doesn't improve it would take a hell of a cast around him to win it all
- Gore is on his last legs
- Justin is on his last legs
- We have huge contract issues in our defensive backfield.
- and there's too much more to list

I thought after Harbaugh's first year here that we had maybe a 3 or 4 year window with these guys to win it all. I still think that. There might be some big changes this very offseason. My preference would be to keep as many guys together as possible, add guys who can make an immediate impact and try to go all the way next year.

And nobody talks about the window closing on NE because they have a QB and a coach who are in the discussion for best QB and Coach in the history of the game. Those two components can go a long way to keeping you in the running. Kap is no Brady (hopefully it's correct to put "yet" on the end of that) and Harbaugh is no Bellichick, IMHO.


How do we have HUGE contract issues in our secondary? Brown, Rogers, and Whitner will probably be gone. They just extended Brock. I'm sure they'll look to extend Cully, depending on how he bounces back from the ACL. They likely re-sing either Cox, Wright or both. They have a ton of draft picks to add more talent to the position. All the other core pieces are locked up for the forseeable future. Staley, Boone, VD, Willis, Bow, Brooks, McDonald. Then we have plethora of young depth all over that should only improve going forward. Kilgore, Patton, V. McDonald, Lemonier, Tank, Reid. Only huge contracts we'll have to worry about is CK and Aldon and I'm sure the plan is already in place to absorb those cap hits. Some guys will be probably be left out in the cold like Crabs and possibly even Iupati but everyone can't be retained. And those guys, as good as they are, can always be replaced or even upgraded by capable players.

People are too caught up in winning it all while we still have Gore and Cowboy here. Like I said, it may not happen for those guys while they're still Niners. Sad but that's the reality of the situation. The team might be more complete when they're not here and better prepared to win it all. Just because two very good players leave doesnt mean the team as a whole is all of a sudden inferior.

As far as the comparsion to the Pats, my point stands. When you have above average coaching and above average talent at the QB position, your window is always open. No coach in the history of the NFL has had the kind of success to start their coaching tenure than JH. He just doesnt have the hardware to show for it. He's no chop liver. And his ssuccess isnt some sort of fluke.

As far as the QB, I personally didn't expect a SB run this year because I knew a regression was due for not only CK, but all the other young QBs. His first full season as starter, more film for defenses to dissect. And he still was very raw, in terms playing from the pocket. I didn't believe he would struggle quite as much as he did bit I predicted a 10-6 season this year. Its very hard for young QBs to win it all UNLESS they have a suffocating defense and a elite rushing attack to take the pressure off said QB. Both our rushing attack and defense were good this year, not great. CK isn't comparable to guys like Wilson and Luck, who played in a pro-style offense they're entire college career. They hit the league more game ready than CK, who needed a ton of work. Rome wasn't built in a day. People talk about Brady like he's always been a GOD. No...he was VERY average for the Pats those for those first two SBs. Look at his stat line. Look at his numbers and Manning's and Brady's through their first 24 starts and compare them to CK. Very similar. Like anyone, Brady had to grow and develop. He worked on it. People need to realize this is CK's first full season as a starter. In terms of being prepared for the pro game, he was probably the least ready out of the young QBs. I said when he was drafted he needed to sit a minimum of two years. All the flaws in his game that people criticize him for are real but ALL are correctable and come with time on the field and maturation. CK already has more road playoff wins that Montana. That's not a typo. Of course he's no where near the QB Joe Cool was but again, he's no chop liver. The best from him is yet to come.

Do ppl not realize CK almost single-handly beat the league's beat defense all by his lonesome? Take away his rushing and passing stats and how much offense to we accumulate without him? Peope need to pipe down a but about CK. QBs throw ints...its a part of the game. I'm not mad he threw a int or two. I'm mad he made the decisions to test the best CB in football when we had avoided him all day long. That's just experience and it comes with making mistakes and I'm sure CK will learn from it...hopefully.


Seriously? You've said that it would be easy to replace the best WR we've had in over a decade, one of the best d-linemen in the league over the past 3 years, a pro bowl and even all pro guard, a RB who's gained over 1000 yards in almost every season he's been in the NFL. You even suggested we could upgrade those positions, and might be a beter team without them. Hardly know what to think if you're telling me that Crabtree, Iupati, Justin Smith and Frank Gore will be easy to replace and are suggesting we'll be better once we do that. You said it's not a big deal that we're likely losing 2 of our 4 starting dbacks plus our nickel back. And you suggested Kap could carry us like Brady has at NE. I guess if you assume we can lose our best players and will somehow find guys just as good or better, and losing 3 out of 5 of our nickel defensive backfield is no big deal, and Kap actually plays as well as Brady, then sure we can be a dynasty. But couldn't every team make the same assumptions about their team and predict a decade long open window for them too?
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big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:


Seattle will have to continue to hit on draft picks though. Then thing about their roster versus ours is that all their talent was acquired around the same time. Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Wagner, Wright, Bryant, Chancellor, Tate, and Okung were drafted withing a two year window. Guys like Willis, VD, Gore, and Cowboy were here through the lean years.


Well it's not particularly comforting to think that some of our best players were brought here by previous regimes, but most of Seattle's good players were brought in by the folks that are still running the show there.
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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:


Seattle will have to continue to hit on draft picks though. Then thing about their roster versus ours is that all their talent was acquired around the same time. Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Wagner, Wright, Bryant, Chancellor, Tate, and Okung were drafted withing a two year window. Guys like Willis, VD, Gore, and Cowboy were here through the lean years.


Well it's not particularly comforting to think that some of our best players were brought here by previous regimes, but most of Seattle's good players were brought in by the folks that are still running the show there.


Enough with the Debbie Downer routine, I mean seriously...

The point is that all those guys can't and won't be retained.

And Baalke was head of player personnel when both Nolan and Scotty Mac were acting GMs. So I'm sure he had a hand in those picks as well. But Im pretty sure you'll find some 'glass half-empty' wisdom to spew about how that's irrelevant
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clarkfn2284


Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 3146
Location: Modesto,CA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
Our window is OPENING, not closing. Pats have gotten to the conference championship for the past 10 years it seems. Nobidy talks about windows closing wih The Hoody and Brady. All our key peices are locked up long term, except for Aldon and CK. And those who aren't are either are on the tail-end of their career(Gore) and have younger guys ready to replace them already waiting in the wings(Goodwin, Rogers).

We have one of the most dynamic QBs in the league, who should only improve going forward. One of the best coaches in the biz. One of the best GMs in the biz. A helluva football staff on every level. And 13 draft picks to play with yet again for a very loaded draft. Might not happen for Gore and Cowboy and that will be a real shame but we'll defintely be in the thick of things for the forseeable future.

Enough with this 'our window is closing' crap. One loss and the fanbase is in full panic mode. We're fine. Actually, we're more than fine...we're a lot better off than most.


The days of dynasties are long gone. The typical window for a group a guys that are assembled into a team is 3 or 4 years these days before the salary cap starts making teams lose key components, or not be able to fill them with quality free agents because they've paid their stars so much that they have no money left for others.

- Many here have long thought we wouldn't be able to afford both Willis and Bowman
- We might not be able to afford Crabs, we might want to afford Crabs, and I've always thought he would prefer to be elsewhere
- Kap hasn't won it all yet and if he doesn't improve it would take a hell of a cast around him to win it all
- Gore is on his last legs
- Justin is on his last legs
- We have huge contract issues in our defensive backfield.
- and there's too much more to list

I thought after Harbaugh's first year here that we had maybe a 3 or 4 year window with these guys to win it all. I still think that. There might be some big changes this very offseason. My preference would be to keep as many guys together as possible, add guys who can make an immediate impact and try to go all the way next year.

And nobody talks about the window closing on NE because they have a QB and a coach who are in the discussion for best QB and Coach in the history of the game. Those two components can go a long way to keeping you in the running. Kap is no Brady (hopefully it's correct to put "yet" on the end of that) and Harbaugh is no Bellichick, IMHO.


How do we have HUGE contract issues in our secondary? Brown, Rogers, and Whitner will probably be gone. They just extended Brock. I'm sure they'll look to extend Cully, depending on how he bounces back from the ACL. They likely re-sing either Cox, Wright or both. They have a ton of draft picks to add more talent to the position. All the other core pieces are locked up for the forseeable future. Staley, Boone, VD, Willis, Bow, Brooks, McDonald. Then we have plethora of young depth all over that should only improve going forward. Kilgore, Patton, V. McDonald, Lemonier, Tank, Reid. Only huge contracts we'll have to worry about is CK and Aldon and I'm sure the plan is already in place to absorb those cap hits. Some guys will be probably be left out in the cold like Crabs and possibly even Iupati but everyone can't be retained. And those guys, as good as they are, can always be replaced or even upgraded by capable players.

People are too caught up in winning it all while we still have Gore and Cowboy here. Like I said, it may not happen for those guys while they're still Niners. Sad but that's the reality of the situation. The team might be more complete when they're not here and better prepared to win it all. Just because two very good players leave doesnt mean the team as a whole is all of a sudden inferior.

As far as the comparsion to the Pats, my point stands. When you have above average coaching and above average talent at the QB position, your window is always open. No coach in the history of the NFL has had the kind of success to start their coaching tenure than JH. He just doesnt have the hardware to show for it. He's no chop liver. And his ssuccess isnt some sort of fluke.

As far as the QB, I personally didn't expect a SB run this year because I knew a regression was due for not only CK, but all the other young QBs. His first full season as starter, more film for defenses to dissect. And he still was very raw, in terms playing from the pocket. I didn't believe he would struggle quite as much as he did bit I predicted a 10-6 season this year. Its very hard for young QBs to win it all UNLESS they have a suffocating defense and a elite rushing attack to take the pressure off said QB. Both our rushing attack and defense were good this year, not great. CK isn't comparable to guys like Wilson and Luck, who played in a pro-style offense they're entire college career. They hit the league more game ready than CK, who needed a ton of work. Rome wasn't built in a day. People talk about Brady like he's always been a GOD. No...he was VERY average for the Pats those for those first two SBs. Look at his stat line. Look at his numbers and Manning's and Brady's through their first 24 starts and compare them to CK. Very similar. Like anyone, Brady had to grow and develop. He worked on it. People need to realize this is CK's first full season as a starter. In terms of being prepared for the pro game, he was probably the least ready out of the young QBs. I said when he was drafted he needed to sit a minimum of two years. All the flaws in his game that people criticize him for are real but ALL are correctable and come with time on the field and maturation. CK already has more road playoff wins that Montana. That's not a typo. Of course he's no where near the QB Joe Cool was but again, he's no chop liver. The best from him is yet to come.

Do ppl not realize CK almost single-handly beat the league's beat defense all by his lonesome? Take away his rushing and passing stats and how much offense to we accumulate without him? Peope need to pipe down a but about CK. QBs throw ints...its a part of the game. I'm not mad he threw a int or two. I'm mad he made the decisions to test the best CB in football when we had avoided him all day long. That's just experience and it comes with making mistakes and I'm sure CK will learn from it...hopefully.


Seriously? You've said that it would be easy to replace the best WR we've had in over a decade, one of the best d-linemen in the league over the past 3 years, a pro bowl and even all pro guard, a RB who's gained over 1000 yards in almost every season he's been in the NFL. You even suggested we could upgrade those positions, and might be a beter team without them. Hardly know what to think if you're telling me that Crabtree, Iupati, Justin Smith and Frank Gore will be easy to replace and are suggesting we'll be better once we do that. You said it's not a big deal that we're likely losing 2 of our 4 starting dbacks plus our nickel back. And you suggested Kap could carry us like Brady has at NE. I guess if you assume we can lose our best players and will somehow find guys just as good or better, and losing 3 out of 5 of our nickel defensive backfield is no big deal, and Kap actually plays as well as Brady, then sure we can be a dynasty. But couldn't every team make the same assumptions about their team and predict a decade long open window for them too?


Im not sure what your definition of a dynasty is because I havent seen anyone mention winning a ton of championships. All anyone is saying is that the Niners window is not even close to closing. They will be contenders because they have a very good coaching staff and a plus QB. Add that to a nucleus on defense and the team has what is necessary to be successful for years to come.

A dynasty is 3 championships in 5 years.

The Niners will be players for years to come. NE/INDY/Philly/GB/Pitt/Bal/NYG/NO all teams that year in and year out have been considered contenders over the past decade. Some have a bad year sprinkled in here or there, but for the most part when the season begins those teams are looked at as dangerous.

SF/Sea have entered that territory.

It is not easy to replace the player that is Frank Gore., but lets not get it twisted Frank is not the RB he once was. There were 13 1,000 yard rushers. Frank was 9th. He was also 11th in YPC out of the 13. Of the 13 Frank was 11th in ypg. He is replaceable at this point as a RB. His blocking in the pass game and his leadership is where he seperates himself. Gore as great as he is is easily replaceable after next season.

Crabtree as Sherman put it is not top 20 in the game. Personally I would have him 15-20. He has had as many good seasons as a Gordon and a Jeffery. He is replaceable, but the Niners history at WR makes it seem almost impossible for them to hit on a WR. If they drafted Rice tomorrow we might cringe.

Justin Smith is a very, very good player, but is getting long in the tooth and he is being asked to play way too many snaps. Maybe Carradine is the replacement. Maybe not. Again a player his caliber is hard to replace because of their leadership on the field. As a talent he has regressed the past two seasons. To a point that its becoming easier to find a replacement. The Dline is a schematic line. Smith takes up the space so Aldon can run around and run stunts and get loose. Justin Smith is NOT a game changer anymore. He is really good still, but he doesnt wreak havoc like he did before.

As for the secondary, I am slightly concerned with this. Rogers at this point is replaceable by Cox or Wright. They are virtually a push to me. Cully coming back is an upgrade from Brown. I like Brown, but we all saw how good Cully was last season. He is young and with modern medicine today he shouldnt have any problems being better next season. Whitner is a big one. He is the leader of the secondary and is a tone setter. But he is also very much replaceable. For all te good things there are in Whitner there are some bad as well. I learned this last season with Goldson. They went out and got a high football IQ guy in Reid and he was just better.

This is how teams that have staying power stay relavant in todays NFL. Do we need Kaep to develop more? Absolutely, but Harbaugh and co. know how to play to strengths and hide weaknesses.

Those guys you mentioned are not the best players on the 49ers. Hell Crabtree may not even be the best WR. Willis/Bow/Reid/Aldon/VD/Kaep are the best in terms of what they actually do for this team on the field and the impacts they have on the game.
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NextBigThing wrote:
rice wasn't close to do as good as his stats would lead one to assume


okie dokie!!! He only had 1200 rec yards at 40, but he clearly isnt as good as it appears.
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757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clarkfn2284 wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
Our window is OPENING, not closing. Pats have gotten to the conference championship for the past 10 years it seems. Nobidy talks about windows closing wih The Hoody and Brady. All our key peices are locked up long term, except for Aldon and CK. And those who aren't are either are on the tail-end of their career(Gore) and have younger guys ready to replace them already waiting in the wings(Goodwin, Rogers).

We have one of the most dynamic QBs in the league, who should only improve going forward. One of the best coaches in the biz. One of the best GMs in the biz. A helluva football staff on every level. And 13 draft picks to play with yet again for a very loaded draft. Might not happen for Gore and Cowboy and that will be a real shame but we'll defintely be in the thick of things for the forseeable future.

Enough with this 'our window is closing' crap. One loss and the fanbase is in full panic mode. We're fine. Actually, we're more than fine...we're a lot better off than most.


The days of dynasties are long gone. The typical window for a group a guys that are assembled into a team is 3 or 4 years these days before the salary cap starts making teams lose key components, or not be able to fill them with quality free agents because they've paid their stars so much that they have no money left for others.

- Many here have long thought we wouldn't be able to afford both Willis and Bowman
- We might not be able to afford Crabs, we might want to afford Crabs, and I've always thought he would prefer to be elsewhere
- Kap hasn't won it all yet and if he doesn't improve it would take a hell of a cast around him to win it all
- Gore is on his last legs
- Justin is on his last legs
- We have huge contract issues in our defensive backfield.
- and there's too much more to list

I thought after Harbaugh's first year here that we had maybe a 3 or 4 year window with these guys to win it all. I still think that. There might be some big changes this very offseason. My preference would be to keep as many guys together as possible, add guys who can make an immediate impact and try to go all the way next year.

And nobody talks about the window closing on NE because they have a QB and a coach who are in the discussion for best QB and Coach in the history of the game. Those two components can go a long way to keeping you in the running. Kap is no Brady (hopefully it's correct to put "yet" on the end of that) and Harbaugh is no Bellichick, IMHO.


How do we have HUGE contract issues in our secondary? Brown, Rogers, and Whitner will probably be gone. They just extended Brock. I'm sure they'll look to extend Cully, depending on how he bounces back from the ACL. They likely re-sing either Cox, Wright or both. They have a ton of draft picks to add more talent to the position. All the other core pieces are locked up for the forseeable future. Staley, Boone, VD, Willis, Bow, Brooks, McDonald. Then we have plethora of young depth all over that should only improve going forward. Kilgore, Patton, V. McDonald, Lemonier, Tank, Reid. Only huge contracts we'll have to worry about is CK and Aldon and I'm sure the plan is already in place to absorb those cap hits. Some guys will be probably be left out in the cold like Crabs and possibly even Iupati but everyone can't be retained. And those guys, as good as they are, can always be replaced or even upgraded by capable players.

People are too caught up in winning it all while we still have Gore and Cowboy here. Like I said, it may not happen for those guys while they're still Niners. Sad but that's the reality of the situation. The team might be more complete when they're not here and better prepared to win it all. Just because two very good players leave doesnt mean the team as a whole is all of a sudden inferior.

As far as the comparsion to the Pats, my point stands. When you have above average coaching and above average talent at the QB position, your window is always open. No coach in the history of the NFL has had the kind of success to start their coaching tenure than JH. He just doesnt have the hardware to show for it. He's no chop liver. And his ssuccess isnt some sort of fluke.

As far as the QB, I personally didn't expect a SB run this year because I knew a regression was due for not only CK, but all the other young QBs. His first full season as starter, more film for defenses to dissect. And he still was very raw, in terms playing from the pocket. I didn't believe he would struggle quite as much as he did bit I predicted a 10-6 season this year. Its very hard for young QBs to win it all UNLESS they have a suffocating defense and a elite rushing attack to take the pressure off said QB. Both our rushing attack and defense were good this year, not great. CK isn't comparable to guys like Wilson and Luck, who played in a pro-style offense they're entire college career. They hit the league more game ready than CK, who needed a ton of work. Rome wasn't built in a day. People talk about Brady like he's always been a GOD. No...he was VERY average for the Pats those for those first two SBs. Look at his stat line. Look at his numbers and Manning's and Brady's through their first 24 starts and compare them to CK. Very similar. Like anyone, Brady had to grow and develop. He worked on it. People need to realize this is CK's first full season as a starter. In terms of being prepared for the pro game, he was probably the least ready out of the young QBs. I said when he was drafted he needed to sit a minimum of two years. All the flaws in his game that people criticize him for are real but ALL are correctable and come with time on the field and maturation. CK already has more road playoff wins that Montana. That's not a typo. Of course he's no where near the QB Joe Cool was but again, he's no chop liver. The best from him is yet to come.

Do ppl not realize CK almost single-handly beat the league's beat defense all by his lonesome? Take away his rushing and passing stats and how much offense to we accumulate without him? Peope need to pipe down a but about CK. QBs throw ints...its a part of the game. I'm not mad he threw a int or two. I'm mad he made the decisions to test the best CB in football when we had avoided him all day long. That's just experience and it comes with making mistakes and I'm sure CK will learn from it...hopefully.


Seriously? You've said that it would be easy to replace the best WR we've had in over a decade, one of the best d-linemen in the league over the past 3 years, a pro bowl and even all pro guard, a RB who's gained over 1000 yards in almost every season he's been in the NFL. You even suggested we could upgrade those positions, and might be a beter team without them. Hardly know what to think if you're telling me that Crabtree, Iupati, Justin Smith and Frank Gore will be easy to replace and are suggesting we'll be better once we do that. You said it's not a big deal that we're likely losing 2 of our 4 starting dbacks plus our nickel back. And you suggested Kap could carry us like Brady has at NE. I guess if you assume we can lose our best players and will somehow find guys just as good or better, and losing 3 out of 5 of our nickel defensive backfield is no big deal, and Kap actually plays as well as Brady, then sure we can be a dynasty. But couldn't every team make the same assumptions about their team and predict a decade long open window for them too?


Im not sure what your definition of a dynasty is because I havent seen anyone mention winning a ton of championships. All anyone is saying is that the Niners window is not even close to closing. They will be contenders because they have a very good coaching staff and a plus QB. Add that to a nucleus on defense and the team has what is necessary to be successful for years to come.

A dynasty is 3 championships in 5 years.

The Niners will be players for years to come. NE/INDY/Philly/GB/Pitt/Bal/NYG/NO all teams that year in and year out have been considered contenders over the past decade. Some have a bad year sprinkled in here or there, but for the most part when the season begins those teams are looked at as dangerous.

SF/Sea have entered that territory.

It is not easy to replace the player that is Frank Gore., but lets not get it twisted Frank is not the RB he once was. There were 13 1,000 yard rushers. Frank was 9th. He was also 11th in YPC out of the 13. Of the 13 Frank was 11th in ypg. He is replaceable at this point as a RB. His blocking in the pass game and his leadership is where he seperates himself. Gore as great as he is is easily replaceable after next season.

Crabtree as Sherman put it is not top 20 in the game. Personally I would have him 15-20. He has had as many good seasons as a Gordon and a Jeffery. He is replaceable, but the Niners history at WR makes it seem almost impossible for them to hit on a WR. If they drafted Rice tomorrow we might cringe.

Justin Smith is a very, very good player, but is getting long in the tooth and he is being asked to play way too many snaps. Maybe Carradine is the replacement. Maybe not. Again a player his caliber is hard to replace because of their leadership on the field. As a talent he has regressed the past two seasons. To a point that its becoming easier to find a replacement. The Dline is a schematic line. Smith takes up the space so Aldon can run around and run stunts and get loose. Justin Smith is NOT a game changer anymore. He is really good still, but he doesnt wreak havoc like he did before.

As for the secondary, I am slightly concerned with this. Rogers at this point is replaceable by Cox or Wright. They are virtually a push to me. Cully coming back is an upgrade from Brown. I like Brown, but we all saw how good Cully was last season. He is young and with modern medicine today he shouldnt have any problems being better next season. Whitner is a big one. He is the leader of the secondary and is a tone setter. But he is also very much replaceable. For all te good things there are in Whitner there are some bad as well. I learned this last season with Goldson. They went out and got a high football IQ guy in Reid and he was just better.

This is how teams that have staying power stay relavant in todays NFL. Do we need Kaep to develop more? Absolutely, but Harbaugh and co. know how to play to strengths and hide weaknesses.

Those guys you mentioned are not the best players on the 49ers. Hell Crabtree may not even be the best WR. Willis/Bow/Reid/Aldon/VD/Kaep are the best in terms of what they actually do for this team on the field and the impacts they have on the game.


Amen!!

I love the players that Gore and Cowboy are. I love the leaders that they are on both sides of the ball even more. I really hoped we would win one so both could end their careers having tasted the champagne. It sucks to me that a bum like Brandon Jacobs has two SB rings and Gore doesn't have one.

But Niner fans need to stop acting like both are some mythical figures and that we can't possibly be a better team when they leave. Neither guy is perfect and neither is the player they once were, though they are both still very good in their own right.

And Crabs is a awesome #2 WR. But #2 WR are replaceable. As good as Crabs has been the past two years, Boldin came in and played just as good, if not better. So that goes to show we can find talent on the outside elsewhere and it doesn't have to break the bank. And I'm not even saying I don't want us to re-sign Crabs, I'm simply saying I don't think we can afford him.
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9erNation2013


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
clarkfn2284 wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
Our window is OPENING, not closing. Pats have gotten to the conference championship for the past 10 years it seems. Nobidy talks about windows closing wih The Hoody and Brady. All our key peices are locked up long term, except for Aldon and CK. And those who aren't are either are on the tail-end of their career(Gore) and have younger guys ready to replace them already waiting in the wings(Goodwin, Rogers).

We have one of the most dynamic QBs in the league, who should only improve going forward. One of the best coaches in the biz. One of the best GMs in the biz. A helluva football staff on every level. And 13 draft picks to play with yet again for a very loaded draft. Might not happen for Gore and Cowboy and that will be a real shame but we'll defintely be in the thick of things for the forseeable future.

Enough with this 'our window is closing' crap. One loss and the fanbase is in full panic mode. We're fine. Actually, we're more than fine...we're a lot better off than most.


The days of dynasties are long gone. The typical window for a group a guys that are assembled into a team is 3 or 4 years these days before the salary cap starts making teams lose key components, or not be able to fill them with quality free agents because they've paid their stars so much that they have no money left for others.

- Many here have long thought we wouldn't be able to afford both Willis and Bowman
- We might not be able to afford Crabs, we might want to afford Crabs, and I've always thought he would prefer to be elsewhere
- Kap hasn't won it all yet and if he doesn't improve it would take a hell of a cast around him to win it all
- Gore is on his last legs
- Justin is on his last legs
- We have huge contract issues in our defensive backfield.
- and there's too much more to list

I thought after Harbaugh's first year here that we had maybe a 3 or 4 year window with these guys to win it all. I still think that. There might be some big changes this very offseason. My preference would be to keep as many guys together as possible, add guys who can make an immediate impact and try to go all the way next year.

And nobody talks about the window closing on NE because they have a QB and a coach who are in the discussion for best QB and Coach in the history of the game. Those two components can go a long way to keeping you in the running. Kap is no Brady (hopefully it's correct to put "yet" on the end of that) and Harbaugh is no Bellichick, IMHO.


How do we have HUGE contract issues in our secondary? Brown, Rogers, and Whitner will probably be gone. They just extended Brock. I'm sure they'll look to extend Cully, depending on how he bounces back from the ACL. They likely re-sing either Cox, Wright or both. They have a ton of draft picks to add more talent to the position. All the other core pieces are locked up for the forseeable future. Staley, Boone, VD, Willis, Bow, Brooks, McDonald. Then we have plethora of young depth all over that should only improve going forward. Kilgore, Patton, V. McDonald, Lemonier, Tank, Reid. Only huge contracts we'll have to worry about is CK and Aldon and I'm sure the plan is already in place to absorb those cap hits. Some guys will be probably be left out in the cold like Crabs and possibly even Iupati but everyone can't be retained. And those guys, as good as they are, can always be replaced or even upgraded by capable players.

People are too caught up in winning it all while we still have Gore and Cowboy here. Like I said, it may not happen for those guys while they're still Niners. Sad but that's the reality of the situation. The team might be more complete when they're not here and better prepared to win it all. Just because two very good players leave doesnt mean the team as a whole is all of a sudden inferior.

As far as the comparsion to the Pats, my point stands. When you have above average coaching and above average talent at the QB position, your window is always open. No coach in the history of the NFL has had the kind of success to start their coaching tenure than JH. He just doesnt have the hardware to show for it. He's no chop liver. And his ssuccess isnt some sort of fluke.

As far as the QB, I personally didn't expect a SB run this year because I knew a regression was due for not only CK, but all the other young QBs. His first full season as starter, more film for defenses to dissect. And he still was very raw, in terms playing from the pocket. I didn't believe he would struggle quite as much as he did bit I predicted a 10-6 season this year. Its very hard for young QBs to win it all UNLESS they have a suffocating defense and a elite rushing attack to take the pressure off said QB. Both our rushing attack and defense were good this year, not great. CK isn't comparable to guys like Wilson and Luck, who played in a pro-style offense they're entire college career. They hit the league more game ready than CK, who needed a ton of work. Rome wasn't built in a day. People talk about Brady like he's always been a GOD. No...he was VERY average for the Pats those for those first two SBs. Look at his stat line. Look at his numbers and Manning's and Brady's through their first 24 starts and compare them to CK. Very similar. Like anyone, Brady had to grow and develop. He worked on it. People need to realize this is CK's first full season as a starter. In terms of being prepared for the pro game, he was probably the least ready out of the young QBs. I said when he was drafted he needed to sit a minimum of two years. All the flaws in his game that people criticize him for are real but ALL are correctable and come with time on the field and maturation. CK already has more road playoff wins that Montana. That's not a typo. Of course he's no where near the QB Joe Cool was but again, he's no chop liver. The best from him is yet to come.

Do ppl not realize CK almost single-handly beat the league's beat defense all by his lonesome? Take away his rushing and passing stats and how much offense to we accumulate without him? Peope need to pipe down a but about CK. QBs throw ints...its a part of the game. I'm not mad he threw a int or two. I'm mad he made the decisions to test the best CB in football when we had avoided him all day long. That's just experience and it comes with making mistakes and I'm sure CK will learn from it...hopefully.


Seriously? You've said that it would be easy to replace the best WR we've had in over a decade, one of the best d-linemen in the league over the past 3 years, a pro bowl and even all pro guard, a RB who's gained over 1000 yards in almost every season he's been in the NFL. You even suggested we could upgrade those positions, and might be a beter team without them. Hardly know what to think if you're telling me that Crabtree, Iupati, Justin Smith and Frank Gore will be easy to replace and are suggesting we'll be better once we do that. You said it's not a big deal that we're likely losing 2 of our 4 starting dbacks plus our nickel back. And you suggested Kap could carry us like Brady has at NE. I guess if you assume we can lose our best players and will somehow find guys just as good or better, and losing 3 out of 5 of our nickel defensive backfield is no big deal, and Kap actually plays as well as Brady, then sure we can be a dynasty. But couldn't every team make the same assumptions about their team and predict a decade long open window for them too?


Im not sure what your definition of a dynasty is because I havent seen anyone mention winning a ton of championships. All anyone is saying is that the Niners window is not even close to closing. They will be contenders because they have a very good coaching staff and a plus QB. Add that to a nucleus on defense and the team has what is necessary to be successful for years to come.

A dynasty is 3 championships in 5 years.

The Niners will be players for years to come. NE/INDY/Philly/GB/Pitt/Bal/NYG/NO all teams that year in and year out have been considered contenders over the past decade. Some have a bad year sprinkled in here or there, but for the most part when the season begins those teams are looked at as dangerous.

SF/Sea have entered that territory.

It is not easy to replace the player that is Frank Gore., but lets not get it twisted Frank is not the RB he once was. There were 13 1,000 yard rushers. Frank was 9th. He was also 11th in YPC out of the 13. Of the 13 Frank was 11th in ypg. He is replaceable at this point as a RB. His blocking in the pass game and his leadership is where he seperates himself. Gore as great as he is is easily replaceable after next season.

Crabtree as Sherman put it is not top 20 in the game. Personally I would have him 15-20. He has had as many good seasons as a Gordon and a Jeffery. He is replaceable, but the Niners history at WR makes it seem almost impossible for them to hit on a WR. If they drafted Rice tomorrow we might cringe.

Justin Smith is a very, very good player, but is getting long in the tooth and he is being asked to play way too many snaps. Maybe Carradine is the replacement. Maybe not. Again a player his caliber is hard to replace because of their leadership on the field. As a talent he has regressed the past two seasons. To a point that its becoming easier to find a replacement. The Dline is a schematic line. Smith takes up the space so Aldon can run around and run stunts and get loose. Justin Smith is NOT a game changer anymore. He is really good still, but he doesnt wreak havoc like he did before.

As for the secondary, I am slightly concerned with this. Rogers at this point is replaceable by Cox or Wright. They are virtually a push to me. Cully coming back is an upgrade from Brown. I like Brown, but we all saw how good Cully was last season. He is young and with modern medicine today he shouldnt have any problems being better next season. Whitner is a big one. He is the leader of the secondary and is a tone setter. But he is also very much replaceable. For all te good things there are in Whitner there are some bad as well. I learned this last season with Goldson. They went out and got a high football IQ guy in Reid and he was just better.

This is how teams that have staying power stay relavant in todays NFL. Do we need Kaep to develop more? Absolutely, but Harbaugh and co. know how to play to strengths and hide weaknesses.

Those guys you mentioned are not the best players on the 49ers. Hell Crabtree may not even be the best WR. Willis/Bow/Reid/Aldon/VD/Kaep are the best in terms of what they actually do for this team on the field and the impacts they have on the game.


Amen!!

I love the players that Gore and Cowboy are. I love the leaders that they are on both sides of the ball even more. I really hoped we would win one so both could end their careers having tasted the champagne. It sucks to me that a bum like Brandon Jacobs has two SB rings and Gore doesn't have one.

But Niner fans need to stop acting like both are some mythical figures and that we can't possibly be a better team when they leave. Neither guy is perfect and neither is the player they once were, though they are both still very good in their own right.

And Crabs is a awesome #2 WR. But #2 WR are replaceable. As good as Crabs has been the past two years, Boldin came in and played just as good, if not better. So that goes to show we can find talent on the outside elsewhere and it doesn't have to break the bank. And I'm not even saying I don't want us to re-sign Crabs, I'm simply saying I don't think we can afford him.



I think Harbs will do whatever he can to keep Crab. I feel the first few years with Crab were kinda lost because of the confusion with the franchise and nothing against Smith but he didn't know how to use him. I think Kap knows how to use him correctly in an offense and that bond will only grow.
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757-NINER


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My thing with Crabs and Boldin really is that they are more complimentary WRs. The NFL is a game of space and good defenses exploit the Niners inability to create space quickly on the outside. Crabtree and Boldin are possession receivers who take time to get open, usually on double moves or stutters. They need a Julio Jones/Deymarius Thomas type who can push a secondary back on its heels and go, while going to get the ball at its highest point. That's the only way you can't combat a secondary like Seattle's, with a young QBs who isn't quite as polished as a pocket passer yet. The only guy we have currently who does that is VD. But he's the ONLY one, which is why he receives so much focus and attention from opposing defenses. No defense is worried about either Crabs or Boldin running a 9 route and making them pay so all the focus is towards the middle of the field...where both Boldin and Crabs do their best work. For the passing game to pick up the slack on offesne while CK still matures from the pocket, that has to change.
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KEGster


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:


Seattle will have to continue to hit on draft picks though. Then thing about their roster versus ours is that all their talent was acquired around the same time. Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Wagner, Wright, Bryant, Chancellor, Tate, and Okung were drafted withing a two year window. Guys like Willis, VD, Gore, and Cowboy were here through the lean years.


Well it's not particularly comforting to think that some of our best players were brought here by previous regimes, but most of Seattle's good players were brought in by the folks that are still running the show there.


Enough with the Debbie Downer routine, I mean seriously...

The point is that all those guys can't and won't be retained.

And Baalke was head of player personnel when both Nolan and Scotty Mac were acting GMs. So I'm sure he had a hand in those picks as well. But Im pretty sure you'll find some 'glass half-empty' wisdom to spew about how that's irrelevant

The Good: They are built around the Secondary and that is a very expensive premium. Chance of them all being retained is slim. Furthermore, the only team I can remember that consistently retooled their strong secondary was the Ravens.

The Bad:
- Harvin didn't even play
- Zach Miller is their highest (against the cap) player
- Their offense has A-LOT of room to grow. We basically lost to a 2-man show in Wilson & Lynch. Downright humbling
- And they will always have that ridiculous home-field
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KEGster


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
My thing with Crabs and Boldin really is that they are more complimentary WRs. The NFL is a game of space and good defenses exploit the Niners inability to create space quickly on the outside. Crabtree and Boldin are possession receivers who take time to get open, usually on double moves or stutters. They need a Julio Jones/Deymarius Thomas type who can push a secondary back on its heels and go, while going to get the ball at its highest point. That's the only way you can't combat a secondary like Seattle's, with a young QBs who isn't quite as polished as a pocket passer yet. The only guy we have currently who does that is VD. But he's the ONLY one, which is why he receives so much focus and attention from opposing defenses. No defense is worried about either Crabs or Boldin running a 9 route and making them pay so all the focus is towards the middle of the field...where both Boldin and Crabs do their best work. For the passing game to pick up the slack on offesne while CK still matures from the pocket, that has to change.

I know what you mean. The sense I get speaking to NFL fans is that we over-rate Crabtree. Thinking of a recent FA WR, Vincent Jackson. I think Crabtree will demand his sort of salary and frankly based on many of the reasons you mentioned.....I rather have a Vincent Jackson for example.

Crabtree's ceiling is Top 10 WR in the league. For the most part he is TOP 15-20.

But unless you have one of the top 3 WRs in the league, I prefer having a few solid options. Off the top of my head I think of Brandon Marshall. Sure he's better than Crabtree but I'd rather have Crab & Boldin than just a dominant Marshall. Unfortunately where we fail is the drop off from Boldin to Patton and then Patton to ? We still have not overcame the drafting of Jenkins.

Just think for a second. What if Boldin joined the Seahawks this past off season, instead of us getting a brother gift from John Harbaugh. We would have lost both regular season matchups and been on the brink of missing the playoffs all together.

With the uncertainty of Gore, I almost feel if we don't commit to WRs in the upcoming draft then we must make Boldin/Crabtree a Top priority. Otherwise Kaepernick will not improve and we will quickly turn into Pittsburgh Steelers.

Boldin or Whitner. I think one must be replaced in this upcoming draft.
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9erNation2013


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KEGster wrote:
757-NINER wrote:
My thing with Crabs and Boldin really is that they are more complimentary WRs. The NFL is a game of space and good defenses exploit the Niners inability to create space quickly on the outside. Crabtree and Boldin are possession receivers who take time to get open, usually on double moves or stutters. They need a Julio Jones/Deymarius Thomas type who can push a secondary back on its heels and go, while going to get the ball at its highest point. That's the only way you can't combat a secondary like Seattle's, with a young QBs who isn't quite as polished as a pocket passer yet. The only guy we have currently who does that is VD. But he's the ONLY one, which is why he receives so much focus and attention from opposing defenses. No defense is worried about either Crabs or Boldin running a 9 route and making them pay so all the focus is towards the middle of the field...where both Boldin and Crabs do their best work. For the passing game to pick up the slack on offesne while CK still matures from the pocket, that has to change.


Good to know about D. Thomas. I don't know much about him and hopefully he could give the Hawks some troubles in the SB.

What is scary is that Seattle's O has LOTS of room to grow. I mean they didn't have Harvin all year and Rice was hurt as well correct? Unless they have a complete breakdown next year, I see them being a force for years to come.

We do need to commit to a WR that can makes those plays but once again who? As I stated before, are we just going to look at the draft? If so, is there someone in this upcoming draft that can be such a difference maker that possibly we can trade up?
I know what you mean. The sense I get speaking to NFL fans is that we over-rate Crabtree. Thinking of a recent FA WR, Vincent Jackson. I think Crabtree will demand his sort of salary and frankly based on many of the reasons you mentioned.....I rather have a Vincent Jackson for example.

Crabtree's ceiling is Top 10 WR in the league. For the most part he is TOP 15-20.

But unless you have one of the top 3 WRs in the league, I prefer having a few solid options. Off the top of my head I think of Brandon Marshall. Sure he's better than Crabtree but I'd rather have Crab & Boldin than just a dominant Marshall. Unfortunately where we fail is the drop off from Boldin to Patton and then Patton to ? We still have not overcame the drafting of Jenkins.

Just think for a second. What if Boldin joined the Seahawks this past off season, instead of us getting a brother gift from John Harbaugh. We would have lost both regular season matchups and been on the brink of missing the playoffs all together.

With the uncertainty of Gore, I almost feel if we don't commit to WRs in the upcoming draft then we must make Boldin/Crabtree a Top priority. Otherwise Kaepernick will not improve and we will quickly turn into Pittsburgh Steelers.

Boldin or Whitner. I think one must be replaced in this upcoming draft.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:
big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:


Seattle will have to continue to hit on draft picks though. Then thing about their roster versus ours is that all their talent was acquired around the same time. Sherman, Thomas, Wilson, Wagner, Wright, Bryant, Chancellor, Tate, and Okung were drafted withing a two year window. Guys like Willis, VD, Gore, and Cowboy were here through the lean years.


Well it's not particularly comforting to think that some of our best players were brought here by previous regimes, but most of Seattle's good players were brought in by the folks that are still running the show there.


Enough with the Debbie Downer routine, I mean seriously...

The point is that all those guys can't and won't be retained.

And Baalke was head of player personnel when both Nolan and Scotty Mac were acting GMs. So I'm sure he had a hand in those picks as well. But Im pretty sure you'll find some 'glass half-empty' wisdom to spew about how that's irrelevant


Just keepin it real here. In all likelihood we'll see a pretty big turnover in our personnel over the next couple of years. So the best chance for us to win it all is likely in the next year or two. In the modern NFL predicting any farther out than that is just too hard to do, and there are 31 other teams all planning to be good 3 or more years into the future. There's sure no guarantee we'll turnover our personnel any more successfully than they all will.

Not meaning to be a downer here, just agreeing with the others who've expressed their sentiment that our window is short, and we can't predict anything beyond that short window. I'm WAY optimistic though about our chances over the next year or two.
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big9erfan


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's some good news ... Harbaugh happened to mention yesterday that Lattimore and Carradine were coming along well and will be in the hunt for PT next year. I think of those guys somewhat like Boone. He went lower than his talent level should have placed him but he had those personal problems. In the case of these two, of course their injuries pushed them down, but their talent level is really high. Hopefully they'll play at the level it looked like they could play at when we saw them in college.
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