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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
I can't possibly see Allen retaining his job after next year. It's going to be another losing season, we have a brutal schedule as of now, and we aren't in any position to compete. He would need an 8-8 season and I doubt any QB will lead us to that. Might as well run w/ McGloin, let him give us that losing season the hire a new head coach who can draft HIS QB the next season. If we draft one this year, lose our coach, who's to say that our next HC will even like the new QB?? Might as well avoid that.....

And I have no problem with that. If Bridgewater/Clowney are gone I would love to trade down and get more picks. But I will have to say if Bridgewater is still there I think we should take him. You never no when you have a chance to take a QB that high. And worst case for him I think he is still better than the guys we have. He is not ranked that high for "potential" like a lot of the other guys in this draft.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have no problem drafting Bridgewater at five. I still think that's too early for him as an overall prospect but he's the best of the bunch so why the hell not? Clowney would also be ideal. Watching the Pro Bowl just made me want a great defensive line SOOOO BAD!!! Those guys were just manhandling the best lineman in the game. If we could somehow retain Pat Simms and draft Clowney and Sutton... OMG
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
I would have no problem drafting Bridgewater at five. I still think that's too early for him as an overall prospect but he's the best of the bunch so why the hell not? Clowney would also be ideal. Watching the Pro Bowl just made me want a great defensive line SOOOO BAD!!! Those guys were just manhandling the best lineman in the game. If we could somehow retain Pat Simms and draft Clowney and Sutton... OMG

Yup. I was thinking Donald at DT, also like Caraun Reid in the 4th.
Imagine adding Hardy to that mix as well. double Shocked Shocked Worst case you get Bennett or Houston on the other side.

Clowney
Sims
Donald
Hardy

Then also draft two of those big corner/saftey's in rounds 3/4. Fill other needs/wants in FA.
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RaiderX


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
RaiderX wrote:
big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:

Not you but some people here have Garopollo over Carr. But not that it matters as I don't see a franchise QB in this draft. The Raiders may be forced to draft one but I'm not floored by any of them. I'm frustrated by the Raiders snake-bitten luck. The Raiders have two glaring needs 43 DE and QB and have little chance at either. What an anomaly.


While I like him more, I'm hoping we do not draft any QB this draft. Not only do we need other positions more but like you said, I don't see a franchise QB in this draft aside from Teddy and even he's pretty overrated.


As someone else said "franchise" is a relative term. There is rarely a sure thing Andrew Luck type in the draft. Every other QB needs work in some form or another.

Bortles, Carr, Teddy, Manziel, etc. all have skills they can build around.

Right now the Raiders have nothing at QB to build around. I know you and others buy into McGloin, but I don't see the upside.

And there is no position a team need more than QB. You either have one and compete or you are a bottom feeder with no QB.


I think the thing you look for in a QB right now is his mind and how he absorbs information. Easy to teach and can he make all the throws. Then you start to look at the skills, measurables, etc. Definitely stay away from guys like Boyd, Morris, Thomas, etc.

The best QB out of this draft in 2-3 years will be Derek Carr IMO. Not a sure fire thing but his skills and leadership qualities are the potential that set him apart.

I like Garoppolo alot. He's impressing scouts, coaches, etc. I can understand if people aren't comfortable with his level of competition and that he doesn't have a cannon for an arm. He can make all the throws though and his release, and fast learning abiliity are what impresses me most. I think he could have early success.

Worst part out of all of this is not having a vet QB the past year. These QBs need some time to sit back and observe and work on their mechanics. Its bad timing all around especially with no Andrew Lucks growing on trees.



In looking at a QB you should want him to do all the necessary QB skills at a 6/10 level and then for elite prospects you'd want some areas where he'd grade as a 8/10 or above. That's not Carr. Immediately his terrible footwork moves him out of that bracket and is what pushes him to a second rounder at best.


Carr isn't getting out of the 1st. What Mayock said was people weren't gonna pay as much attention to his senior season because he wasn't in a pro style offense. Footwork wasn't a big necessity in that offense. Footwork is correctable. His skills such as his quick release take a while for other QBs to correct, and you can't teach arm talent like his.

His biggest problem like main QBs in this class is what he does when pressure arises. Is he a day 1 starter? Probably not. I see him starting towards the middle of the season for whoever drafts him.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Carr going to Minnesota for some reason. I think he and Norv Turner would be a good match. But I wouldn't take him top 10.
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Not to pick on you Raidin, but I'm sure most others share your sentiment as well (I know S&B does), but if Gaoppolo looks like a 2nd-3rd round prospect but shares a similar game to McGloin, we can basically debate that McGloin also should have been a 2nd-3rd round prospect. If you have a 2nd-3rd rounder go out and perform like McGloin did last year, why are we even discussing getting a new QB?? Wouldn't we be encouraged by this and say "build the team around him"??

I know I would.... and I am. It certainly won't hurt anything b/c it's not like we're going to be top contenders anyway next season.



I completely agree with this. I personally think it's a waste drafting any QB not named Bridgewater in this class. I'm more than happy to go with McGloin and a Vet back-up for the year.
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TiberiusRising


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
I see Carr going to Minnesota for some reason. I think he and Norv Turner would be a good match. But I wouldn't take him top 10.

Thats where I have him pegged.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
I can't possibly see Allen retaining his job after next year. It's going to be another losing season, we have a brutal schedule as of now, and we aren't in any position to compete. He would need an 8-8 season and I doubt any QB will lead us to that. Might as well run w/ McGloin, let him give us that losing season the hire a new head coach who can draft HIS QB the next season. If we draft one this year, lose our coach, who's to say that our next HC will even like the new QB?? Might as well avoid that.....


I'd rather not draft a QB at #5 either but like i said, RM might feel the need to adress the position now because next year it could be too late for him. Allen isn't in charge of the drafting so i consider him irrelevant here.
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Raidin


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I can't possibly see Allen retaining his job after next year. It's going to be another losing season, we have a brutal schedule as of now, and we aren't in any position to compete. He would need an 8-8 season and I doubt any QB will lead us to that. Might as well run w/ McGloin, let him give us that losing season the hire a new head coach who can draft HIS QB the next season. If we draft one this year, lose our coach, who's to say that our next HC will even like the new QB?? Might as well avoid that.....


I'd rather not draft a QB at #5 either but like i said, RM might feel the need to adress the position now because next year it could be too late for him. Allen isn't in charge of the drafting so i consider him irrelevant here.



Wins and loses won't(well it shouldn't) decide Reggies fate just yet though.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I can't possibly see Allen retaining his job after next year. It's going to be another losing season, we have a brutal schedule as of now, and we aren't in any position to compete. He would need an 8-8 season and I doubt any QB will lead us to that. Might as well run w/ McGloin, let him give us that losing season the hire a new head coach who can draft HIS QB the next season. If we draft one this year, lose our coach, who's to say that our next HC will even like the new QB?? Might as well avoid that.....


I'd rather not draft a QB at #5 either but like i said, RM might feel the need to adress the position now because next year it could be too late for him. Allen isn't in charge of the drafting so i consider him irrelevant here.


I can agree with that. I'm sure Allen had some say on who is drafted though. I would think, at least.
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RaiderX


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I can't possibly see Allen retaining his job after next year. It's going to be another losing season, we have a brutal schedule as of now, and we aren't in any position to compete. He would need an 8-8 season and I doubt any QB will lead us to that. Might as well run w/ McGloin, let him give us that losing season the hire a new head coach who can draft HIS QB the next season. If we draft one this year, lose our coach, who's to say that our next HC will even like the new QB?? Might as well avoid that.....


I'd rather not draft a QB at #5 either but like i said, RM might feel the need to adress the position now because next year it could be too late for him. Allen isn't in charge of the drafting so i consider him irrelevant here.


I can agree with that. I'm sure Allen had some say on who is drafted though. I would think, at least.


At least on defensive players. I mean a former DB coach and taking a CB in the 1st round last year. Maybe. Then there is the "system" guys in the later rounds.
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Not to pick on you Raidin, but I'm sure most others share your sentiment as well (I know S&B does), but if Gaoppolo looks like a 2nd-3rd round prospect but shares a similar game to McGloin, we can basically debate that McGloin also should have been a 2nd-3rd round prospect. If you have a 2nd-3rd rounder go out and perform like McGloin did last year, why are we even discussing getting a new QB?? Wouldn't we be encouraged by this and say "build the team around him"??

I know I would.... and I am. It certainly won't hurt anything b/c it's not like we're going to be top contenders anyway next season.


I actually agree with this assessment except the part about building around McGloin. The Raider will build the team up in general but not to accentuate McGloin's limited abilites. You asked me once why did think McGloin's ceiling is low. I've been thinking about this. In short, McGloin is a diminutive true pocket passer. Rolling out is not his strength and never will be at this point in his career. If you are a trained pocket passer you don't just become a rollout passer. QBs don't think on this level they go back to what they are. Not impossible but very difficult to change. Eventually, his lack of height will hinder him. Similarly, I think McGloin's ceiling is Billy Volek. Which is fine because Volek was an invaluable quality backup throughout his career. You don't build an offense around Billy Volek, nor do you go into a season with Volek as the presumptive starter.

I think if the Raiders attempt to develop a guy behind McGloin he probably would beat him out anyways as this QB class reads backup to me , so just stick with McGloin. But the problem is the Raiders CAN'T stick with McGloin as going into the season with only Pryor and McGloin and some other alsoran going into the strongest SoS next season reads like surrender to the fanbase and will get everyone fired. As you have said the staff is probably doomed anyways but they must attempt something. I think that something will be attempting reclamation with a veteran QB with the credentials to be the anointed starter under Olson's tutelage, who has a reputation (earned or not) as getting the best out of his QBs.
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Nodisrespect wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
I can't possibly see Allen retaining his job after next year. It's going to be another losing season, we have a brutal schedule as of now, and we aren't in any position to compete. He would need an 8-8 season and I doubt any QB will lead us to that. Might as well run w/ McGloin, let him give us that losing season the hire a new head coach who can draft HIS QB the next season. If we draft one this year, lose our coach, who's to say that our next HC will even like the new QB?? Might as well avoid that.....


Another excellent point. However, The Raiders and Mark Davis look smarter THIS off-season by not firing DA in a lean coaching market, foundering around looking for a HC.

Are we looking at GM Scott Pioli, HC Josh McDaniels and a retired Manning in 2015?
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Nodisrespect wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Not to pick on you Raidin, but I'm sure most others share your sentiment as well (I know S&B does), but if Gaoppolo looks like a 2nd-3rd round prospect but shares a similar game to McGloin, we can basically debate that McGloin also should have been a 2nd-3rd round prospect. If you have a 2nd-3rd rounder go out and perform like McGloin did last year, why are we even discussing getting a new QB?? Wouldn't we be encouraged by this and say "build the team around him"??

I know I would.... and I am. It certainly won't hurt anything b/c it's not like we're going to be top contenders anyway next season.



I completely agree with this. I personally think it's a waste drafting any QB not named Bridgewater in this class. I'm more than happy to go with McGloin and a Vet back-up for the year.


I completely agree. Garoppolo would be the only other prospect but I'm not a fan of drafting one in general
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaiderX wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
I can't possibly see Allen retaining his job after next year. It's going to be another losing season, we have a brutal schedule as of now, and we aren't in any position to compete. He would need an 8-8 season and I doubt any QB will lead us to that. Might as well run w/ McGloin, let him give us that losing season the hire a new head coach who can draft HIS QB the next season. If we draft one this year, lose our coach, who's to say that our next HC will even like the new QB?? Might as well avoid that.....


I'd rather not draft a QB at #5 either but like i said, RM might feel the need to adress the position now because next year it could be too late for him. Allen isn't in charge of the drafting so i consider him irrelevant here.


I can agree with that. I'm sure Allen had some say on who is drafted though. I would think, at least.


At least on defensive players. I mean a former DB coach and taking a CB in the 1st round last year. Maybe. Then there is the "system" guys in the later rounds.


Didn't Reggie openly admit he was a huge fan of Hayden to begin w/?? I might be mixing up my facts....
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