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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 3751
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Ceiling for Our WRs: Reply with quote

A lot of controversy has been formed over our young WR core, which flashes tons of talent but not a lot of consistency. This has even prompted me to encourage drafting watkins at 5 if teddy and clowney are gone, because I believe he is a sure thing and a true #1. Recently, Reggie said that "We don't have that go-to big hitter Calvin Johnson-type guy at receiver," and I personally think Watkins is a go to guy with sharp routes, but I wanted to know what you guys think of our WRs on the roster and their short and long term ceiling.

Denarius Moore.

Short Term (Next Year): 60 Catches for 900 yards and 6 TD's. The offensive continuity helps him get his looks and deliver steady production.

Long Term: Remains a solid #2 wideout with some breakout games and some no shows, but consistently hovers in the 800-1000 yard range and around 6 to 8 tds for the foreseeable future.

Others I'd like to know about: Rod Streater, Andre Holmes, Brice Butler, Greg Jenkins, Juron Criner, etc... Also, if you don't agree with drafting watkins at 5 (assuming clowney and teddy are gone), where would you personally draft, or get a wide receiver, and who would it be?[/b]
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Joe Nobody


Joined: 12 Feb 2013
Posts: 480
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We definitely need a go to guy. Add a guy like Watkins to what we already have and we might have something.

Streater is solid, but nothing special. Reliable. Should be able to hold his starting spot even if we do draft/sign a #1 type.

Holmes flashed some real potential as a 50/50 guy. Not enough to use him as a reason to not draft a WR, though.

Moore will be good depth is he can keep his head in the game. Seemed to have issues this year running the wrong routes. That'll get you buried next to Brice Butler and his suspect hands.
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Mr.Bob Dobalina


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 1595
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe Nobody wrote:
We definitely need a go to guy. Add a guy like Watkins to what we already have and we might have something.

Streater is solid, but nothing special. Reliable. Should be able to hold his starting spot even if we do draft/sign a #1 type.

Holmes flashed some real potential as a 50/50 guy. Not enough to use him as a reason to not draft a WR, though.

Moore will be good depth is he can keep his head in the game. Seemed to have issues this year running the wrong routes. That'll get you buried next to Brice Butler and his suspect hands.


Streater is good and has potential to be very good, reminds me of Colston. Moore is solid, has a unique skill set, he thrived in Hue Jackson's system and I do believe he is better suited for the deep passing game.and Holmes has potential,I'm fine with our WR's.its all about balance and being able to distribute the ball.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 3751
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Joe Nobody wrote:
We definitely need a go to guy. Add a guy like Watkins to what we already have and we might have something.

Streater is solid, but nothing special. Reliable. Should be able to hold his starting spot even if we do draft/sign a #1 type.

Holmes flashed some real potential as a 50/50 guy. Not enough to use him as a reason to not draft a WR, though.

Moore will be good depth is he can keep his head in the game. Seemed to have issues this year running the wrong routes. That'll get you buried next to Brice Butler and his suspect hands.


Streater is good and has potential to be very good, reminds me of Colston. Moore is solid, has a unique skill set, he thrived in Hue Jackson's system and I do believe he is better suited for the deep passing game.and Holmes has potential,I'm fine with our WR's.its all about balance and being able to distribute the ball.


Do you think Holmes is a good enough 3, or would you be ok with drafting watkins at 5?
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 37324
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Joe Nobody wrote:
We definitely need a go to guy. Add a guy like Watkins to what we already have and we might have something.

Streater is solid, but nothing special. Reliable. Should be able to hold his starting spot even if we do draft/sign a #1 type.

Holmes flashed some real potential as a 50/50 guy. Not enough to use him as a reason to not draft a WR, though.

Moore will be good depth is he can keep his head in the game. Seemed to have issues this year running the wrong routes. That'll get you buried next to Brice Butler and his suspect hands.


Streater is good and has potential to be very good, reminds me of Colston. Moore is solid, has a unique skill set, he thrived in Hue Jackson's system and I do believe he is better suited for the deep passing game.and Holmes has potential,I'm fine with our WR's.its all about balance and being able to distribute the ball.


Do you think Holmes is a good enough 3, or would you be ok with drafting watkins at 5?


I think Holmes has a 50/50 shot at becoming a solid #3. He made some stupid catches this year when given the opportunities. Regardless of if he is or isn't good enough, the real question IMO is: are Moore and Streater good enough to be our starters? Streater can be a good #2 at least but I'm not 100% sold on him being a #1. Even if he could be, I think Moore is kind of a wild card. I was a big Moore fan after I watched some of his game from Tennessee after we drafted him.
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dawsonleery


Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 956
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watkins doesn't look like a #1 dominating WR, He'll be a great #2, he'll line up in the slot. He'll be a playmaker. I'm not sure he's worth a premium draft pick when Raiders have so many needs. I guess well see what happens in free agency. I can't completely rule it out but its not likely to happen.
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S&B Bleeder


Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 1937
Location: SoCal
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Joe Nobody wrote:
We definitely need a go to guy. Add a guy like Watkins to what we already have and we might have something.

Streater is solid, but nothing special. Reliable. Should be able to hold his starting spot even if we do draft/sign a #1 type.

Holmes flashed some real potential as a 50/50 guy. Not enough to use him as a reason to not draft a WR, though.

Moore will be good depth is he can keep his head in the game. Seemed to have issues this year running the wrong routes. That'll get you buried next to Brice Butler and his suspect hands.


Streater is good and has potential to be very good, reminds me of Colston. Moore is solid, has a unique skill set, he thrived in Hue Jackson's system and I do believe he is better suited for the deep passing game.and Holmes has potential,I'm fine with our WR's.its all about balance and being able to distribute the ball.


Do you think Holmes is a good enough 3, or would you be ok with drafting watkins at 5?


I think Holmes has a 50/50 shot at becoming a solid #3. He made some stupid catches this year when given the opportunities. Regardless of if he is or isn't good enough, the real question IMO is: are Moore and Streater good enough to be our starters? Streater can be a good #2 at least but I'm not 100% sold on him being a #1. Even if he could be, I think Moore is kind of a wild card. I was a big Moore fan after I watched some of his game from Tennessee after we drafted him.

I have no doubt Holmes is a #3 and could be better than that. We haven't given him enough of a chance to show how capable he is. Besides he has great height. We haven't tapped into that yet.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7442
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OT Greg Robinson. I'd gotten some misinformation. I thought Robinson was 6'5" 305 5.28. Decent numbers but not transcendent. Update: 6'4 1/5 320lbs 4.98 is very very rare. As much as I think Watkins will be the WR to take in this draft I have to put my emotions aside and stick to fundamentals and build inside out.

LT Veldheer
LG Jackson (draft)
C Wisniewski
RG Watson
RT Robinson (draft)
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Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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SPaceGhost


Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 2280
Location: Alabama
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
OT Greg Robinson. I'd gotten some misinformation. I thought Robinson was 6'5" 305 5.28. Decent numbers but not transcendent. Update: 6'4 1/5 320lbs 4.98 is very very rare. As much as I think Watkins will be the WR to take in this draft I have to put my emotions aside and stick to fundamentals and build inside out.

LT Veldheer
LG Jackson (draft)
C Wisniewski
RG Watson
RT Robinson (draft)


Interesting... but why move Watson to RG when he is slated to be our RT (afaik)? I'd rather wait until the 3rd round to pick up an OG, first 2 rounds need to be DE and WR (imo).
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 7442
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SPaceGhost wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
OT Greg Robinson. I'd gotten some misinformation. I thought Robinson was 6'5" 305 5.28. Decent numbers but not transcendent. Update: 6'4 1/5 320lbs 4.98 is very very rare. As much as I think Watkins will be the WR to take in this draft I have to put my emotions aside and stick to fundamentals and build inside out.

LT Veldheer
LG Jackson (draft)
C Wisniewski
RG Watson
RT Robinson (draft)


Interesting... but why move Watson to RG when he is slated to be our RT (afaik)? I'd rather wait until the 3rd round to pick up an OG, first 2 rounds need to be DE and WR (imo).


I don't think any position is safe other than LT. The Raiders don't have a single transcendent player.
_________________
Nodisrespect wrote:
(on building inside out) teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1461
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: Ceiling for Our WRs: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
A lot of controversy has been formed over our young WR core, which flashes tons of talent but not a lot of consistency. This has even prompted me to encourage drafting watkins at 5 if teddy and clowney are gone, because I believe he is a sure thing and a true #1. Recently, Reggie said that "We don't have that go-to big hitter Calvin Johnson-type guy at receiver," and I personally think Watkins is a go to guy with sharp routes, but I wanted to know what you guys think of our WRs on the roster and their short and long term ceiling.

Denarius Moore.

Short Term (Next Year): 60 Catches for 900 yards and 6 TD's. The offensive continuity helps him get his looks and deliver steady production.

Long Term: Remains a solid #2 wideout with some breakout games and some no shows, but consistently hovers in the 800-1000 yard range and around 6 to 8 tds for the foreseeable future.

Others I'd like to know about: Rod Streater, Andre Holmes, Brice Butler, Greg Jenkins, Juron Criner, etc... Also, if you don't agree with drafting watkins at 5 (assuming clowney and teddy are gone), where would you personally draft, or get a wide receiver, and who would it be?[/b]


I like the Streater - Holmes - Moore trio we have going on. None of those are on an elite or #1 level but in my mind the best thing we could do for these guys is get a very good TE to take pressure off our QB. I can see any of these 3 guys cracking 1000yds and certainly Holmes and Moore have big play potential.
If we add in the versatility of Reece catching passes not only out the backfield but also lined up in the slot, out wide etc. we also have Jennings who appears to be a good receiving back i think we have a varied, efficient passing attack.

I believe the ceiling of all 3 is as a #2 WR, though Holmes and Moore have a little more big play potential. I'd be happy with a WR by committee approach so long as we add another good to very good TE target.

Brice Butler, Greg Jenkins, Juron Criner are IMO this years Shillens or Murphy who may suprise the odd game but flatter to deceive in the long run. I'm very dissapointed in Ford as i genuinely thought he's be a very good slot receiver for a number of years and returner........ looks like his confidence is totally shot.

If we cannot draft Clowney or Bridgewater or don't trade down I wouldn't be mad at drafting Watkins (and I've not seen a huge amount of him in real game time TBH) I'd probably go after James Jones in FA as i think he has untapped potential that could be put to better use in Oakland than his bit-part play in GB.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 3751
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Ceiling for Our WRs: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
A lot of controversy has been formed over our young WR core, which flashes tons of talent but not a lot of consistency. This has even prompted me to encourage drafting watkins at 5 if teddy and clowney are gone, because I believe he is a sure thing and a true #1. Recently, Reggie said that "We don't have that go-to big hitter Calvin Johnson-type guy at receiver," and I personally think Watkins is a go to guy with sharp routes, but I wanted to know what you guys think of our WRs on the roster and their short and long term ceiling.

Denarius Moore.

Short Term (Next Year): 60 Catches for 900 yards and 6 TD's. The offensive continuity helps him get his looks and deliver steady production.

Long Term: Remains a solid #2 wideout with some breakout games and some no shows, but consistently hovers in the 800-1000 yard range and around 6 to 8 tds for the foreseeable future.

Others I'd like to know about: Rod Streater, Andre Holmes, Brice Butler, Greg Jenkins, Juron Criner, etc... Also, if you don't agree with drafting watkins at 5 (assuming clowney and teddy are gone), where would you personally draft, or get a wide receiver, and who would it be?[/b]


I like the Streater - Holmes - Moore trio we have going on. None of those are on an elite or #1 level but in my mind the best thing we could do for these guys is get a very good TE to take pressure off our QB. I can see any of these 3 guys cracking 1000yds and certainly Holmes and Moore have big play potential.
If we add in the versatility of Reece catching passes not only out the backfield but also lined up in the slot, out wide etc. we also have Jennings who appears to be a good receiving back i think we have a varied, efficient passing attack.

I believe the ceiling of all 3 is as a #2 WR, though Holmes and Moore have a little more big play potential. I'd be happy with a WR by committee approach so long as we add another good to very good TE target.

Brice Butler, Greg Jenkins, Juron Criner are IMO this years Shillens or Murphy who may suprise the odd game but flatter to deceive in the long run. I'm very dissapointed in Ford as i genuinely thought he's be a very good slot receiver for a number of years and returner........ looks like his confidence is totally shot.

If we cannot draft Clowney or Bridgewater or don't trade down I wouldn't be mad at drafting Watkins (and I've not seen a huge amount of him in real game time TBH) I'd probably go after James Jones in FA as i think he has untapped potential that could be put to better use in Oakland than his bit-part play in GB.


Tight end eh? Would you draft one, or go after a FA tight end. I personally am higher on Watkins than most and I think he could be a #1 WR, but if we can trade down to minny at 8, i would be cool taking barr, mack, matthews, or robinson and trading up into the back of the 1st to take kelvin benjamin or marqise lee. I like Austin Sefarians Jenkins or Jace Amaro if either drops to the 2nd as well. They could form an awesome tandem with Rivera. I think Ausberry could surprise in the offseason as well though, so I think a WR in the 1st or early 2nd would be great for me personally.
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1461
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:51 am    Post subject: Re: Ceiling for Our WRs: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Darbsk wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
A lot of controversy has been formed over our young WR core, which flashes tons of talent but not a lot of consistency. This has even prompted me to encourage drafting watkins at 5 if teddy and clowney are gone, because I believe he is a sure thing and a true #1. Recently, Reggie said that "We don't have that go-to big hitter Calvin Johnson-type guy at receiver," and I personally think Watkins is a go to guy with sharp routes, but I wanted to know what you guys think of our WRs on the roster and their short and long term ceiling.

Denarius Moore.

Short Term (Next Year): 60 Catches for 900 yards and 6 TD's. The offensive continuity helps him get his looks and deliver steady production.

Long Term: Remains a solid #2 wideout with some breakout games and some no shows, but consistently hovers in the 800-1000 yard range and around 6 to 8 tds for the foreseeable future.

Others I'd like to know about: Rod Streater, Andre Holmes, Brice Butler, Greg Jenkins, Juron Criner, etc... Also, if you don't agree with drafting watkins at 5 (assuming clowney and teddy are gone), where would you personally draft, or get a wide receiver, and who would it be?[/b]


I like the Streater - Holmes - Moore trio we have going on. None of those are on an elite or #1 level but in my mind the best thing we could do for these guys is get a very good TE to take pressure off our QB. I can see any of these 3 guys cracking 1000yds and certainly Holmes and Moore have big play potential.
If we add in the versatility of Reece catching passes not only out the backfield but also lined up in the slot, out wide etc. we also have Jennings who appears to be a good receiving back i think we have a varied, efficient passing attack.

I believe the ceiling of all 3 is as a #2 WR, though Holmes and Moore have a little more big play potential. I'd be happy with a WR by committee approach so long as we add another good to very good TE target.

Brice Butler, Greg Jenkins, Juron Criner are IMO this years Shillens or Murphy who may suprise the odd game but flatter to deceive in the long run. I'm very dissapointed in Ford as i genuinely thought he's be a very good slot receiver for a number of years and returner........ looks like his confidence is totally shot.

If we cannot draft Clowney or Bridgewater or don't trade down I wouldn't be mad at drafting Watkins (and I've not seen a huge amount of him in real game time TBH) I'd probably go after James Jones in FA as i think he has untapped potential that could be put to better use in Oakland than his bit-part play in GB.


Tight end eh? Would you draft one, or go after a FA tight end. I personally am higher on Watkins than most and I think he could be a #1 WR, but if we can trade down to minny at 8, i would be cool taking barr, mack, matthews, or robinson and trading up into the back of the 1st to take kelvin benjamin or marqise lee. I like Austin Sefarians Jenkins or Jace Amaro if either drops to the 2nd as well. They could form an awesome tandem with Rivera. I think Ausberry could surprise in the offseason as well though, so I think a WR in the 1st or early 2nd would be great for me personally.


I'd look to add 2 very good DL prospects in the top 3 rounds - in a perfect world Clowney is there for us and Aaron Donald drops due to his size concerns, I see a little John Randle in him with a chip on his shoulder and his disruptive play. Therefore I would target a TE in round 2 or 3, possibly late 1st if we trade down for multiple picks. One of Amaro, Ebron, Fiedorowicz or ASJ could fall to low 2nd or early 3rd maybe where they can be snagged though I wouldn't put TE over DE or DT unless there was a clear cut BPA.
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Joe Nobody


Joined: 12 Feb 2013
Posts: 480
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
OT Greg Robinson. I'd gotten some misinformation. I thought Robinson was 6'5" 305 5.28. Decent numbers but not transcendent. Update: 6'4 1/5 320lbs 4.98 is very very rare. As much as I think Watkins will be the WR to take in this draft I have to put my emotions aside and stick to fundamentals and build inside out.

LT Veldheer
LG Jackson (draft)
C Wisniewski
RG Watson
RT Robinson (draft)


I'd be all over this.

Kicking Watson inside to guard is something we've discussed a for a little while over at another site. He could be a terrific pulling guard with his athleticism. Plus, being that he's so raw, learning to play guard might be much easier for him. And he could always play some tackle for us if injuries run up in us like they did this past season.

Veldheer & Robinson as bookends would be nails.
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Re-Drew-Vinated


Joined: 23 Jan 2008
Posts: 2379
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think McKenzie's previous success in GB through the draft, in particular at the WR position in later rounds, tells me he won't draft Watkins at #5. Look at just WR's Green Bay has taken since he was in the front office in 1994:

Antonio Freeman (3rd)
Donald Driver (7th)
Greg Jennings (2nd)
James Jones (3rd)
Jordy Nelson (2nd)
Randall Cobb (2nd)

Without a franchise QB, our current WR's will continue to be just average. I think the only one with a higher ceiling than he's shown is Streater because of his route running. If he were paired with Brees, Brady, Manning etc. he'd be 75 catch-1,000yd.-8TD's easily
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