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NinerNation21


Joined: 05 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
SFrush wrote:
I assumed Carlos Rogers would be released by now. But Barrows pointed we'll wait until after the draft to ask him for a pay cut. By then all the other teams will have their cornerbacks in place which hurts his leverage to refuse a pay cut.



And if he still refuses to take a paycut, we can wait until june to cut him, and we'd save an extra 1.5 million in cap space, which could perhaps be used to extend Kap or Crabtree. If we cut him now, yes we'd save 5.1 millions, but if we can manage our free agents without cutting him, it's preferable. If we cut him on june first, we save 6.6 millions, which would probably be enough to pay for our entire draft class. The only problem is that he would be 1.5 millions of dead money on next year's cap. But one way to look at it is that by saving us 1.5 this year, if we don't use it, it rolls over to next year's cap and pretty much pays itself off. And we will have the leverage then, so chances are he'll take the paycut then. I don't know if it's possible to transfer his 2015 guarantees to 2014 (in the form of a fully guaranteed base salary), so we could completely nullify his last year.


I think in june there is less dead money and more money off the cap so I think they're probably just waiting until then.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
@AlbertBreer: Cap is at $133.0 million, is $9.4 million over '13 total. It's projected to rise by more than $10 million in '15.

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49ers Finest


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He for sure won't take a paycut. They can cut him as a designated post June first cut or something like that
And if it's it that he won't take less and we don't need it, then I think we would do it sooner rather than later just because it would help him. And teams we want to keep a good relationship with guys. Like letting Alex start elsewhere and giving brown a little of te money he lost
Keep guys keep wanting to come here
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, our FO does the players well, unless they are Edwards/Jacobs Laughing. It would be best interest for Rogers to know ASAP if he will be cut, but the writing will be on the wall. I do think there is a chance he takes a pay cut though if he realizes his market this year won't be great.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinerNation21 wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
SFrush wrote:
I assumed Carlos Rogers would be released by now. But Barrows pointed we'll wait until after the draft to ask him for a pay cut. By then all the other teams will have their cornerbacks in place which hurts his leverage to refuse a pay cut.



And if he still refuses to take a paycut, we can wait until june to cut him, and we'd save an extra 1.5 million in cap space, which could perhaps be used to extend Kap or Crabtree. If we cut him now, yes we'd save 5.1 millions, but if we can manage our free agents without cutting him, it's preferable. If we cut him on june first, we save 6.6 millions, which would probably be enough to pay for our entire draft class. The only problem is that he would be 1.5 millions of dead money on next year's cap. But one way to look at it is that by saving us 1.5 this year, if we don't use it, it rolls over to next year's cap and pretty much pays itself off. And we will have the leverage then, so chances are he'll take the paycut then. I don't know if it's possible to transfer his 2015 guarantees to 2014 (in the form of a fully guaranteed base salary), so we could completely nullify his last year.


I think in june there is less dead money and more money off the cap so I think they're probably just waiting until then.



With June 1st cuts, the dead money is amortised on two, rather than one year, I think. So it's less dead money now, but more dead money next year. Whatever we do with Rogers, it's all good. The only wrong thing to do with Rogers is nothing. Making him take a paycut, cutting him before or after june 1st, those three are all good solutions. Keeping him at his current salary, not so much.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 7470
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
SFrush wrote:
I assumed Carlos Rogers would be released by now. But Barrows pointed we'll wait until after the draft to ask him for a pay cut. By then all the other teams will have their cornerbacks in place which hurts his leverage to refuse a pay cut.



And if he still refuses to take a paycut, we can wait until june to cut him, and we'd save an extra 1.5 million in cap space, which could perhaps be used to extend Kap or Crabtree. If we cut him now, yes we'd save 5.1 millions, but if we can manage our free agents without cutting him, it's preferable. If we cut him on june first, we save 6.6 millions, which would probably be enough to pay for our entire draft class. The only problem is that he would be 1.5 millions of dead money on next year's cap. But one way to look at it is that by saving us 1.5 this year, if we don't use it, it rolls over to next year's cap and pretty much pays itself off. And we will have the leverage then, so chances are he'll take the paycut then. I don't know if it's possible to transfer his 2015 guarantees to 2014 (in the form of a fully guaranteed base salary), so we could completely nullify his last year.


I think in june there is less dead money and more money off the cap so I think they're probably just waiting until then.



With June 1st cuts, the dead money is amortised on two, rather than one year, I think. So it's less dead money now, but more dead money next year. Whatever we do with Rogers, it's all good. The only wrong thing to do with Rogers is nothing. Making him take a paycut, cutting him before or after june 1st, those three are all good solutions. Keeping him at his current salary, not so much.


I personally hate the post june 1st cut unless you absolutely have to have the cap room for this year. I don't think that we are that desperate for cap space given the contracts we can work with, so hopefully we just cut him and take it all this year and be better off next year.
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rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
SFrush wrote:
I assumed Carlos Rogers would be released by now. But Barrows pointed we'll wait until after the draft to ask him for a pay cut. By then all the other teams will have their cornerbacks in place which hurts his leverage to refuse a pay cut.



And if he still refuses to take a paycut, we can wait until june to cut him, and we'd save an extra 1.5 million in cap space, which could perhaps be used to extend Kap or Crabtree. If we cut him now, yes we'd save 5.1 millions, but if we can manage our free agents without cutting him, it's preferable. If we cut him on june first, we save 6.6 millions, which would probably be enough to pay for our entire draft class. The only problem is that he would be 1.5 millions of dead money on next year's cap. But one way to look at it is that by saving us 1.5 this year, if we don't use it, it rolls over to next year's cap and pretty much pays itself off. And we will have the leverage then, so chances are he'll take the paycut then. I don't know if it's possible to transfer his 2015 guarantees to 2014 (in the form of a fully guaranteed base salary), so we could completely nullify his last year.


I think in june there is less dead money and more money off the cap so I think they're probably just waiting until then.



With June 1st cuts, the dead money is amortised on two, rather than one year, I think. So it's less dead money now, but more dead money next year. Whatever we do with Rogers, it's all good. The only wrong thing to do with Rogers is nothing. Making him take a paycut, cutting him before or after june 1st, those three are all good solutions. Keeping him at his current salary, not so much.


I personally hate the post june 1st cut unless you absolutely have to have the cap room for this year. I don't think that we are that desperate for cap space given the contracts we can work with, so hopefully we just cut him and take it all this year and be better off next year.



Well, considering unused cap space rolls over to the next year's cap, pre-june 1st and post june 1st really come down to the same thing. You save 1.5 million this year, it rolls over to next year to cover the very 1.5 million you saved. So, it's exactly the same. We can just cut him whenever we want, and play the long game and try to make him break and accept a paycut, knowing that if he gets cut late, he'll have a hard time finding as good a role he'll have on our team, and probably less money that he would get even with the paycut.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 7470
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
Forge wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
NinerNation21 wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
SFrush wrote:
I assumed Carlos Rogers would be released by now. But Barrows pointed we'll wait until after the draft to ask him for a pay cut. By then all the other teams will have their cornerbacks in place which hurts his leverage to refuse a pay cut.



And if he still refuses to take a paycut, we can wait until june to cut him, and we'd save an extra 1.5 million in cap space, which could perhaps be used to extend Kap or Crabtree. If we cut him now, yes we'd save 5.1 millions, but if we can manage our free agents without cutting him, it's preferable. If we cut him on june first, we save 6.6 millions, which would probably be enough to pay for our entire draft class. The only problem is that he would be 1.5 millions of dead money on next year's cap. But one way to look at it is that by saving us 1.5 this year, if we don't use it, it rolls over to next year's cap and pretty much pays itself off. And we will have the leverage then, so chances are he'll take the paycut then. I don't know if it's possible to transfer his 2015 guarantees to 2014 (in the form of a fully guaranteed base salary), so we could completely nullify his last year.


I think in june there is less dead money and more money off the cap so I think they're probably just waiting until then.



With June 1st cuts, the dead money is amortised on two, rather than one year, I think. So it's less dead money now, but more dead money next year. Whatever we do with Rogers, it's all good. The only wrong thing to do with Rogers is nothing. Making him take a paycut, cutting him before or after june 1st, those three are all good solutions. Keeping him at his current salary, not so much.


I personally hate the post june 1st cut unless you absolutely have to have the cap room for this year. I don't think that we are that desperate for cap space given the contracts we can work with, so hopefully we just cut him and take it all this year and be better off next year.



Well, considering unused cap space rolls over to the next year's cap, pre-june 1st and post june 1st really come down to the same thing. You save 1.5 million this year, it rolls over to next year to cover the very 1.5 million you saved. So, it's exactly the same. We can just cut him whenever we want, and play the long game and try to make him break and accept a paycut, knowing that if he gets cut late, he'll have a hard time finding as good a role he'll have on our team, and probably less money that he would get even with the paycut.


I forgot about that change. That took effect last year, right? That is a devious business ploy for a team to take...I like it.
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NcFinest9erFan


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam shields is set to test FA. He'll Command too much money but I've always liked him..
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BUzzzard


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morris Claiborne is on the trading block, a move for him could be interesting considering the ineptness of Dallas coaching. I bet our defensive staff could develop him and use him to the best of his ability. I think it would be worth a mid rounder. What do you guys think?
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49ers Finest


Joined: 28 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BUzzzard wrote:
Morris Claiborne is on the trading block, a move for him could be interesting considering the ineptness of Dallas coaching. I bet our defensive staff could develop him and use him to the best of his ability. I think it would be worth a mid rounder. What do you guys think?

i havent heard he was on the block, but if he was, i think they would def want more than that

but if that were the case. hell yes
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

49ers Finest wrote:
BUzzzard wrote:
Morris Claiborne is on the trading block, a move for him could be interesting considering the ineptness of Dallas coaching. I bet our defensive staff could develop him and use him to the best of his ability. I think it would be worth a mid rounder. What do you guys think?

i havent heard he was on the block, but if he was, i think they would def want more than that

but if that were the case. hell yes


I second this. He hasn't shown enough to be worth a great pick, but if we are talking middle rounds? He's certainly got the potential to get better, and I love our defensive coaches all around. If anyone would help him to reach that potential, it would be us. I'd do that deal. Buy low, maybe the stock goes through the roof.
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DirtyJersey9er


Joined: 17 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NcFinest9erFan wrote:
Quote:
Eric Branch ‏@Eric_Branch 4m
FA center Jonathan Goodwin, 35, told me #49ers have yet to contact him/his agent about re-signing with team.


This plus the 9ers extending Kilgore shows the writing is on the wall. Goodwin was one of the better Centers to play on the 9ers in recent years but he was def the weak link on the line.
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Forge


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another disappointing younger player available: Dion Jordan. I was not a fan of him when he came out last year, as I think he's extremely limited as a pass rusher, but would any one be interested in him to back up Brooks and Smith along with Lemonier? I don't know what they are seeking, and I surely wouldn't give up a top 75 pick for him, but I could see the appeal of letting go of our own third and maybe a conditional late/mid rounder for him.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, I wouldn't want Jordan. They will want a high pick for him, likely our 1st rounder.

I'm still holding out hope we surprise everyone and end up with Cromartie.
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