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Reggie McKenzie's season ending thoughts
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 1591
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:
Here we go again, another Pryor/McGloin debate, fact is Pryor will never be any better than what he is right now and because of that will not be on the team much longer and probably will not be in the league after next year when someone else tries him out only to discover what we already know. Fact McGloin is only a UDFA rookie that played beyond his draft status and has earned a second look this season, I think that's pretty obvious by what RM said about him.


Speed_Wrench wrote:
Here we go again, another Pryor/McGloin debate, fact is Pryor will never be any better than what he is right now and because of that will not be on the team much longer and probably will not be in the league after next year when someone else tries him out only to discover what we already know. Fact McGloin is only a UDFA rookie that played beyond his draft status and has earned a second look this season, I think that's pretty obvious by what RM said about him.


This is exactly what I'm saying. No one ever said that Pryor was better than McGloin, yet people get threatened. McGloin has played admirably thus far and could be a franchise qb, but I also think Pryor should have a chance to compete in camp;no one should be handed the starting job. If pryor doesn't improve, then fine, cut him. But to discount him now when he's putting in work with a qb coach is just misguided. No one knows how good he'll be because he's putting in work; he could be awful, or he could be pretty decent. So when someone like me says I think mcgloin/pryor could be good, I mean that whoever wins in camp will be ready to start 16 games. And it's hard for me to take you entirely seriously when dennis allen already said "pryor can help the team", whether it's as a wildcat qb,backup, or starter and yet you suggest he'll not only be off the team but out of the league. Oh, and the picture underneath your user doesn't help your bias.

As for the interview with Reggie, he said that “I thought he started out pretty good. He had the ups and downs, but I thought he did a good job going into Indy and had a couple other pretty good plays throughout that game and a couple games to follow.
“But it was the inconsistency and making the decisions, whether to throw, whether to run, avoid and get rid of the ball, whatever it is, that needs to continue to improve. It didn’t…it was too inconsistent there. …
“Terrelle has a ways to go with the decision making and timing of throwing guys open in that regard. It’s a process and we’ll see what happens this offseason.”

As for the interview, Reggie said that both guys had struggles "as part of the learning process". I saw no clear support for either guy so idk what you're seeing. To be clear, I love both guys, but I'm not gonna make any assumptions whatsoever; we haven't even gotten to training camp yet.


Who is this referring to?


speed wrench
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 1591
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:
Here we go again, another Pryor/McGloin debate, fact is Pryor will never be any better than what he is right now and because of that will not be on the team much longer and probably will not be in the league after next year when someone else tries him out only to discover what we already know. Fact McGloin is only a UDFA rookie that played beyond his draft status and has earned a second look this season, I think that's pretty obvious by what RM said about him.


Speed_Wrench wrote:
Here we go again, another Pryor/McGloin debate, fact is Pryor will never be any better than what he is right now and because of that will not be on the team much longer and probably will not be in the league after next year when someone else tries him out only to discover what we already know. Fact McGloin is only a UDFA rookie that played beyond his draft status and has earned a second look this season, I think that's pretty obvious by what RM said about him.


This is exactly what I'm saying. No one ever said that Pryor was better than McGloin, yet people get threatened. McGloin has played admirably thus far and could be a franchise qb, but I also think Pryor should have a chance to compete in camp;no one should be handed the starting job. If pryor doesn't improve, then fine, cut him. But to discount him now when he's putting in work with a qb coach is just misguided. No one knows how good he'll be because he's putting in work; he could be awful, or he could be pretty decent. So when someone like me says I think mcgloin/pryor could be good, I mean that whoever wins in camp will be ready to start 16 games. And it's hard for me to take you entirely seriously when dennis allen already said "pryor can help the team", whether it's as a wildcat qb,backup, or starter and yet you suggest he'll not only be off the team but out of the league. Oh, and the picture underneath your user doesn't help your bias.

As for the interview, Reggie said that both guys had struggles "as part of the learning process". I saw no clear support for either guy so idk what you're seeing. To be clear, I love both guys, but I'm not gonna make any assumptions whatsoever; we haven't even gotten to training camp yet.


speed wrench
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Speed_Wrench


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 4720
Location: Bay area
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OakRaiders3828 wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:
Here we go again, another Pryor/McGloin debate, fact is Pryor will never be any better than what he is right now and because of that will not be on the team much longer and probably will not be in the league after next year when someone else tries him out only to discover what we already know. Fact McGloin is only a UDFA rookie that played beyond his draft status and has earned a second look this season, I think that's pretty obvious by what RM said about him.


Speed_Wrench wrote:
Here we go again, another Pryor/McGloin debate, fact is Pryor will never be any better than what he is right now and because of that will not be on the team much longer and probably will not be in the league after next year when someone else tries him out only to discover what we already know. Fact McGloin is only a UDFA rookie that played beyond his draft status and has earned a second look this season, I think that's pretty obvious by what RM said about him.


This is exactly what I'm saying. No one ever said that Pryor was better than McGloin, yet people get threatened. McGloin has played admirably thus far and could be a franchise qb, but I also think Pryor should have a chance to compete in camp;no one should be handed the starting job. If pryor doesn't improve, then fine, cut him. But to discount him now when he's putting in work with a qb coach is just misguided. No one knows how good he'll be because he's putting in work; he could be awful, or he could be pretty decent. So when someone like me says I think mcgloin/pryor could be good, I mean that whoever wins in camp will be ready to start 16 games. And it's hard for me to take you entirely seriously when dennis allen already said "pryor can help the team", whether it's as a wildcat qb,backup, or starter and yet you suggest he'll not only be off the team but out of the league. Oh, and the picture underneath your user doesn't help your bias.

As for the interview with Reggie, he said that “I thought he started out pretty good. He had the ups and downs, but I thought he did a good job going into Indy and had a couple other pretty good plays throughout that game and a couple games to follow.
“But it was the inconsistency and making the decisions, whether to throw, whether to run, avoid and get rid of the ball, whatever it is, that needs to continue to improve. It didn’t…it was too inconsistent there. …
“Terrelle has a ways to go with the decision making and timing of throwing guys open in that regard. It’s a process and we’ll see what happens this offseason.”

As for the interview, Reggie said that both guys had struggles "as part of the learning process". I saw no clear support for either guy so idk what you're seeing. To be clear, I love both guys, but I'm not gonna make any assumptions whatsoever; we haven't even gotten to training camp yet.


Who is this referring to?


Me, and I was given it. As far as Pryor is concerned do you think he needs another 3 years to develop? How much time does he deserve? I think you said you support all our players and want them all to succeed well that just isn't possible if you support the Raiders football team as well, all of them are not going to succeed and the ones that are holding back the progress need to go away and it's pretty obvious this forum points them out fairly well and Pryor is one of them. And if the raiders find players better than McGloin then he needs to go also, I want the team to get better by bringing in better players.
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Speed_Wrench


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your double posting for some reason
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 1591
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed_Wrench wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:
Here we go again, another Pryor/McGloin debate, fact is Pryor will never be any better than what he is right now and because of that will not be on the team much longer and probably will not be in the league after next year when someone else tries him out only to discover what we already know. Fact McGloin is only a UDFA rookie that played beyond his draft status and has earned a second look this season, I think that's pretty obvious by what RM said about him.


Speed_Wrench wrote:
Here we go again, another Pryor/McGloin debate, fact is Pryor will never be any better than what he is right now and because of that will not be on the team much longer and probably will not be in the league after next year when someone else tries him out only to discover what we already know. Fact McGloin is only a UDFA rookie that played beyond his draft status and has earned a second look this season, I think that's pretty obvious by what RM said about him.


This is exactly what I'm saying. No one ever said that Pryor was better than McGloin, yet people get threatened. McGloin has played admirably thus far and could be a franchise qb, but I also think Pryor should have a chance to compete in camp;no one should be handed the starting job. If pryor doesn't improve, then fine, cut him. But to discount him now when he's putting in work with a qb coach is just misguided. No one knows how good he'll be because he's putting in work; he could be awful, or he could be pretty decent. So when someone like me says I think mcgloin/pryor could be good, I mean that whoever wins in camp will be ready to start 16 games. And it's hard for me to take you entirely seriously when dennis allen already said "pryor can help the team", whether it's as a wildcat qb,backup, or starter and yet you suggest he'll not only be off the team but out of the league. Oh, and the picture underneath your user doesn't help your bias.

As for the interview with Reggie, he said that “I thought he started out pretty good. He had the ups and downs, but I thought he did a good job going into Indy and had a couple other pretty good plays throughout that game and a couple games to follow.
“But it was the inconsistency and making the decisions, whether to throw, whether to run, avoid and get rid of the ball, whatever it is, that needs to continue to improve. It didn’t…it was too inconsistent there. …
“Terrelle has a ways to go with the decision making and timing of throwing guys open in that regard. It’s a process and we’ll see what happens this offseason.”

As for the interview, Reggie said that both guys had struggles "as part of the learning process". I saw no clear support for either guy so idk what you're seeing. To be clear, I love both guys, but I'm not gonna make any assumptions whatsoever; we haven't even gotten to training camp yet.


Who is this referring to?


Me, and I was given it. As far as Pryor is concerned do you think he needs another 3 years to develop? How much time does he deserve? I think you said you support all our players and want them all to succeed well that just isn't possible if you support the Raiders football team as well, all of them are not going to succeed and the ones that are holding back the progress need to go away and it's pretty obvious this forum points them out fairly well and Pryor is one of them. And if the raiders find players better than McGloin then he needs to go also, I want the team to get better by bringing in better players.


I don't think he needs 3 years. His completion percentage went up from 45% to 58%. A year ago, I thought he would have no chance to be a qb in the nfl and he passed far better than last year. Now it comes down to this offseason. A lot of his lack of growth can be blamed on the lack of continuity and 3 different offensive coordinators.

As to how pryor is holding back the team, he's on a rookie salary and I doubt there will be a better backup available in the weak fa qb market so I don't see how he's "holding the organization back", at least not yet.

Again it's hard to speculate, but I have watched a lot of pryor and I don't know if he'll regress or move forward. If he doesn't then I agree he will be holding the team back and then we cut him. But up until now he has hope and there's nothing I hate more than watching people write off other people.

I remember when last year the raiders signed rashad jennings and people called him a "weak" signing that was not worth the raiders time because he averaged 2.8 ypc the year before, and look how that turned out. That's why I get angry when people write Pryor will never do this, or read a defense, or have pocket presence.

Hell, no one thought Matt McGloin would amount to anything because he was "too short and too slow" and he's proving all of his doubters wrong. The guy wasn't even invited to the combine and he's played crazy well at times.

All I'm trying to say is when people write nfl players off, especially on the raiders, it's not always entirely accurate, so have patience and this will be resolved in the offseason, but please no more pryor bashing on these threads. It's sad, he doesn't deserve it, and he's trying his best to pull a "Matt McGloin" or "Rashad jennings", and we should give him our respect for that.

I apologize for the double posting I have no idea why its happening.
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 5948
Location: RaiderNation
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Every thread is a battleground Laughing


Truer words have never been spoken. It's not just discussion, it's war. And personal..


Ikr, its frustrating because I'm optimistic and I want all our players to succeed, but some of the criticisms are harsh.


But some are also deserved.


Saying a guy who completes 58% of his passes "can't pass" and "won't make it to training camp" isn't harsh?

When you are a starting NFL QB with one of the highest completion % at one time yet in the bottom quarter for pass yards it suggests a QB that doesn't throw downfield. You can cherry pick a single stat like completion % but it won't tell the whole story. Again, completion % is not a measurement of accuracy or the ability to read defenses.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 1591
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Every thread is a battleground Laughing


Truer words have never been spoken. It's not just discussion, it's war. And personal..


Ikr, its frustrating because I'm optimistic and I want all our players to succeed, but some of the criticisms are harsh.


But some are also deserved.


Saying a guy who completes 58% of his passes "can't pass" and "won't make it to training camp" isn't harsh?

When you are a starting NFL QB with one of the highest completion % at one time yet in the bottom quarter for pass yards it suggests a QB that doesn't throw downfield. You can cherry pick a single stat like completion % but it won't tell the whole story. Again, completion % is not a measurement of accuracy or the ability to read defenses.


True, but a 58% completion percentage implies some competence, as opposed to 0 skill throwing the ball.
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Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speed_Wrench wrote:


All I'm trying to say is when people write nfl players off, especially on the raiders, it's not always entirely accurate


Who have we cut that has gone on to be a success elsewhere in recent years ?

There are certain posters on this forum who fall in love with a player and swear fealty to him and he can do no wrong despite the evidence in front of their eyes.It happened with JR,DMC and various others.
DMC is going to be released which many posters on this forum have seen coming for the last couple of seasons yet other posters have seen him as the saviour of our franchise and would hear nothing against him yet now they don't care because they have moved on to their new favourite.


Last edited by Keleth on Sun Jan 19, 2014 5:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Every thread is a battleground Laughing


Truer words have never been spoken. It's not just discussion, it's war. And personal..


Ikr, its frustrating because I'm optimistic and I want all our players to succeed, but some of the criticisms are harsh.


But some are also deserved.


Saying a guy who completes 58% of his passes "can't pass" and "won't make it to training camp" isn't harsh?

When you are a starting NFL QB with one of the highest completion % at one time yet in the bottom quarter for pass yards it suggests a QB that doesn't throw downfield. You can cherry pick a single stat like completion % but it won't tell the whole story. Again, completion % is not a measurement of accuracy or the ability to read defenses.


True, but a 58% completion percentage implies some competence, as opposed to 0 skill throwing the ball.


Incompetence is by default a level of competence below acceptable. "Can't" is just as quantitative as competence. OR3828 never wrote that Pryor had 0 skill throwing the ball. It's perspective. Why is it that every time someone offers critical analysis of Pryor it's the most scathing criticism ever?
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Nodisrespect on building inside out wrote:
teams without highly draft DT's make the playoffs and win the superbowl regularly.

Bonez wrote:
Teams that win Superbowls and make the playoffs aren't picking in the Top 5, clearly
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Baggabonez wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
OakRaiders3828 wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
holyghost wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Every thread is a battleground Laughing


Truer words have never been spoken. It's not just discussion, it's war. And personal..


Ikr, its frustrating because I'm optimistic and I want all our players to succeed, but some of the criticisms are harsh.


But some are also deserved.


Saying a guy who completes 58% of his passes "can't pass" and "won't make it to training camp" isn't harsh?

When you are a starting NFL QB with one of the highest completion % at one time yet in the bottom quarter for pass yards it suggests a QB that doesn't throw downfield. You can cherry pick a single stat like completion % but it won't tell the whole story. Again, completion % is not a measurement of accuracy or the ability to read defenses.


True, but a 58% completion percentage implies some competence, as opposed to 0 skill throwing the ball.


Incompetence is by default a level of competence below acceptable. "Can't" is just as quantitative as competence. OR3828 never wrote that Pryor had 0 skill throwing the ball. It's perspective. Why is it that every time someone offers critical analysis of Pryor it's the most scathing criticism ever?


No I actually agree with you, because he's a below average passer, but people have taken it a lot farther than that.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keleth wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:


All I'm trying to say is when people write nfl players off, especially on the raiders, it's not always entirely accurate


Who have we cut that has gone on to be a success elsewhere in recent years ?


I assume you mean didn't bring back as opposed to outright cutting but Mike Mitchell, Tommy Kelly & Desmond Bryant are examples from last year.
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OakRaiders3828


Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 10096
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:


All I'm trying to say is when people write nfl players off, especially on the raiders, it's not always entirely accurate


Who have we cut that has gone on to be a success elsewhere in recent years ?


I assume you mean didn't bring back as opposed to outright cutting but Mike Mitchell, Tommy Kelly & Desmond Bryant are examples from last year.


I really wanted Mitchell back. Only player I was sad to see go.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:


All I'm trying to say is when people write nfl players off, especially on the raiders, it's not always entirely accurate


Who have we cut that has gone on to be a success elsewhere in recent years ?


I assume you mean didn't bring back as opposed to outright cutting but Mike Mitchell, Tommy Kelly & Desmond Bryant are examples from last year.


Even Palmer and Flynn arguably because Palmer is 10-6 on Arizona and Flynn did decently on Green Bay because both are better teams than us. If we just improve around the qb, then we can always get a qb in 2015 (mariota winston petty hogan etc).
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TiberiusRising


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 8914
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
Keleth wrote:
Speed_Wrench wrote:


All I'm trying to say is when people write nfl players off, especially on the raiders, it's not always entirely accurate


Who have we cut that has gone on to be a success elsewhere in recent years ?


I assume you mean didn't bring back as opposed to outright cutting but Mike Mitchell, Tommy Kelly & Desmond Bryant are examples from last year.
Stevie brown and Kevin Boothe. Probably others. I guess u can list josh mcknown now, I wouldn't though.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha alrighty then, I guess I forgot a few. In summation, there are a decent amount of guys that have left here and found more success. Not like they're all bums. For every Mike Mitchell there's a Louis Murphy.
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