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27th overall pick (Draft talk thread)
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Me and you got into many arguments about Jonathan Hankins, you proclaimed he was a 1st round pick and I said he was a mid-late 2nd rounder.


For quite awhile many others felt Hankins was not only a 1st round pick but a top 10 pick. Just because a player ends up being drafted in a specific round doesn't really justify it one way or another. He actually played well for the Giants in somewhat limited playing time.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
Harper41 wrote:
Guys, lets be realistic. We're a "3-4" team, but we mostly lined up with 4 defensive lineman.
Junior - Hicks - Bunkley - Jordan
Harper - Lofton - Hawthorne
Lewis - Jenkins - Vacarro - Greer

I'd say that's what our defense resembled most of this season. On defense, I'd say our biggest needs are OLB (Not 3-4 OLB) and CB. On offense, we desperately need a #1 WR and a RT.


You don't think we lined up with 4 down lineman mostly because of the lack of 3-4 OLBs we had?


I think we'll change our defense very little next year when we get Butler back. I think Ryan will stick with what's working, rather than what history tells him a 3-4 is supposed to look like. Sometimes Cam Jordan will be our only guy with his hand in the dirt, lined up at RE. It's very strange, but it works.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You also called Jake Stoneburner a 2nd or 3rd round pick.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

domepatrol91 wrote:
You also called Jake Stoneburner a 2nd or 3rd round pick.


I think I actually started backing away from him that high and went lower. I did expect him to get drafted and surprised he didn't. Actually I can't remember calling him that high. I think I said he might be able to if he had a good year, but if I mocked him it was always 5th or later.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raves wrote:
domepatrol91 wrote:
You also called Jake Stoneburner a 2nd or 3rd round pick.


I think I actually started backing away from him that high and went lower. I did expect him to get drafted and surprised he didn't. Actually I can't remember calling him that high. I think I said he might be able to if he had a good year, but if I mocked him it was always 5th or later.


Raves wrote:
tylerdouglass wrote:
Canadian Saint wrote:

6th round: TE Jake Stoneburner


This should be our pick, based solely on the guys last name.


He won't be there in the 6th. Expect the 2nd or 3rd round to hear his name called.

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Last edited by domepatrol91 on Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You were also crazy about Beanie wells, but you weren't alone there, so it's a moot point.

I do remember defending PT over Wells, one proud moment of mine when things worked out the way they did. Cool
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Raves


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

domepatrol91 wrote:
You were also crazy about Beanie wells, but you weren't alone there, so it's a moot point.

I do remember defending PT over Wells, one proud moment of mine when things worked out the way they did. Cool


Well if I actually went back to all my picks, I'm sure I have a lot more good calls compared to bad ones.

I still like what Wells brought to the table with his skillset, he just never could stay healthy.

WHen was that comment made btw? If it was an early mock then sure I probably expected a big season and then his stock rising, based on his measurables you would expect him to have been drafted that high as well.
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Spartica4Real


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you guys like the CB from Nebraska, Stanley Jean-Baptise? Was watching some tape on him and personally he just SCREAMS Rob Ryan DB to me.
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FLOODx


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it's early, but I've done countless mock drafts by myself and with others and everytime I do them the value at 27 is always on the DL. WR, CB, and S value is low at that spot. Gilbert and Dennard are gone. I'm a fan of Verrett and Joyner, but I'd rather trade back for one of the two.
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Saint-Anger_13


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spartica4Real wrote:
How do you guys like the CB from Nebraska, Stanley Jean-Baptise? Was watching some tape on him and personally he just SCREAMS Rob Ryan DB to me.


I like him more and more as time goes on, reminds me of Tracy Porter.
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Raves


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
I know it's early, but I've done countless mock drafts by myself and with others and everytime I do them the value at 27 is always on the DL. WR, CB, and S value is low at that spot. Gilbert and Dennard are gone. I'm a fan of Verrett and Joyner, but I'd rather trade back for one of the two.


I'm sure DL probably has a bit of value but I think LB probably has some if the best value around there as well as maybe some WRs that climb.
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Canadian Saint


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a feeling we'll go either S or CB with our top pick. With us losing Greer, we'll need some insurance, and with us presumably letting Harper go and possibly losing Jenkins to FA, we need S help. Bush has come on really strong, but we need the depth. Especially after IAQ was let go.

I also believe it was Worm who noted that teams with Rob Ryan running their D have selected DBs in the 1st quite a bit.

We need someone who can play single high safety for us behind Bush and Vaccaro next year. We need someone to compliment Lewis.

I also don't see us spending all that much in free agency, even though I want to. We need to sign Graham to a big deal so I don't know if we'll be able to add a Vontae Davis or Verner to our backend.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

I also believe it was Worm who noted that teams with Rob Ryan running their D have selected DBs in the 1st quite a bit.


True... posted something like this last year when the Jarvis Jones vs Kenny Vaccaro debate came up.


Rob Ryan…

Oakland Raiders 2004-2008

2004: Both the Raiders 1st and 2nd round picks went towards upgrading the offensive line but in the 3rd round they finally addressed Ryans defense and a Safety was selected.

2005: With their 1st and 2nd round picks the Raiders took back to back cornerbacks.

2006: With their 1st and 2nd round picks the Raiders took a safety in round one and followed that with an outside linebacker.

2007: This was the Jamarcus Russell draft where the Raiders went basically all offense for Lane Kiffin.

2008: This was the draft where the Raiders took Darren McFadden 4th overall and didn’t have another pick until the 1st pick in the 4th round where they selected a cornerback for Rob Ryan.


Cleveland Browns 2009-2010

2009: This draft Cleveland had 3 picks in the 1st 2 rounds… went all offense.

2010: This draft Ryan got his way… The Browns went defense in the 1st and 2nd rounds landing Corner Joe Haden and Safety TJ Ward, two pro-bowlers this season.


Dallas Cowboys 2011-2012

2011: Cowboys select offensive tackle Tyron Smith in round one and grab a inside linebacker (Bruce Carter) for Ryan in round 2.

2012: Cowboys realizing Ryan’s scheme only works with great man coverage, go out and sign Brandon Carr to a massive free agent deal then trade their 1st and 2nd round pick to move up and aquire LSU cornerback Mo Claiborne.


New Orleans Saints 2013-Present

2013: Saints kick off the rebuilding project under Ryan with Safety Kenny Vaccaro in round 1, no pick in round 2.


So… Since Rob Ryan has become a defensive coordinator the teams he were on within the 1st 3 rounds of the draft have spent 12 draft picks on defensive players and of those 12… 9 were defensive backs and NO 1st round pick was ever used on a defender other than a DB!!!



A zebra don’t change his stripes guys!

My way to early prediction... Jason Verrett CB TCU will be the guy if, and that's a big IF the Saints go defense in round 1!


WHODAT
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kelsobob


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Quote:

I also believe it was Worm who noted that teams with Rob Ryan running their D have selected DBs in the 1st quite a bit.


True... posted something like this last year when the Jarvis Jones vs Kenny Vaccaro debate came up.


Rob Ryan…

Oakland Raiders 2004-2008

2004: Both the Raiders 1st and 2nd round picks went towards upgrading the offensive line but in the 3rd round they finally addressed Ryans defense and a Safety was selected.

2005: With their 1st and 2nd round picks the Raiders took back to back cornerbacks.

2006: With their 1st and 2nd round picks the Raiders took a safety in round one and followed that with an outside linebacker.

2007: This was the Jamarcus Russell draft where the Raiders went basically all offense for Lane Kiffin.

2008: This was the draft where the Raiders took Darren McFadden 4th overall and didn’t have another pick until the 1st pick in the 4th round where they selected a cornerback for Rob Ryan.


Cleveland Browns 2009-2010

2009: This draft Cleveland had 3 picks in the 1st 2 rounds… went all offense.

2010: This draft Ryan got his way… The Browns went defense in the 1st and 2nd rounds landing Corner Joe Haden and Safety TJ Ward, two pro-bowlers this season.


Dallas Cowboys 2011-2012

2011: Cowboys select offensive tackle Tyron Smith in round one and grab a inside linebacker (Bruce Carter) for Ryan in round 2.

2012: Cowboys realizing Ryan’s scheme only works with great man coverage, go out and sign Brandon Carr to a massive free agent deal then trade their 1st and 2nd round pick to move up and aquire LSU cornerback Mo Claiborne.


New Orleans Saints 2013-Present

2013: Saints kick off the rebuilding project under Ryan with Safety Kenny Vaccaro in round 1, no pick in round 2.


So… Since Rob Ryan has become a defensive coordinator the teams he were on within the 1st 3 rounds of the draft have spent 12 draft picks on defensive players and of those 12… 9 were defensive backs and NO 1st round pick was ever used on a defender other than a DB!!!



A zebra don’t change his stripes guys!

My way to early prediction... Jason Verrett CB TCU will be the guy if, and that's a big IF the Saints go defense in round 1!


WHODAT

nice info bro.
You wouldnt happen to have the free agency moves as well?
That could also help in predicting how the Saints may look at the off season.
Ill go and look and see if I can find it in the mean time.
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whodatworm23


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

nice info bro.
You wouldnt happen to have the free agency moves as well?
That could also help in predicting how the Saints may look at the off season.
Ill go and look and see if I can find it in the mean time.


I know offhand that Dallas signing Brandon Carr to a 50 million dollar contract and when Namdi was due to become a FA under Ryan the Raiders made him the highest paid CB in the NFL at the time. Those two moves go to show just how much Ryan covets big physical press corners in his scheme.

Add to that the addition of Kennan Lewis (who Ryan correctly called the best FA signing last offseason) to a big contract as the Saints 1st major offseason FA addition under Ryan it continues to show just how much Rob values the position as Lewis falls into the mold of the big long physical press cover corner.

There are more, but those I know off hand. In Cleveland he didn't land a big money FA CB but did select Joe Haden in the top 5 of the NFL draft and traded a 1st and 2nd round pick to move up and acquire LSU Mo Claiborne.

The thing is that while Ryan loves to have a big physical press corner he isn't locked into only size at the position. Yes he likes the luxury of having at least one guy like that and Lewis plays that part for the Saints but Ryan also values versatility in his scheme and loves to pair his longer physical press corner with a quick twitch, off man cover guy. Haden and Claiborne fit this description and of all the corners on the Saints current roster, Robinson and Greer fit the bill the most with Robinson's speed and athletic ability early similar to that of Claiborne. I see Robinson getting one last crack to be the guy opposite Lewis while White fits more as the Nickel corner but a guy like TCU's Verrett with his ball skills and instincts would be a PERFECT fit under Ryan covering the slot inside the numbers but also has the versatility to play on/off man on the edge despite his less than ideal size.
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