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McGinn: Packers getting left behind by NFL elite
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GoPackGo


Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Posts: 3141
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

driftwood wrote:
RashaanSalaami wrote:


This game was ours for the taking and we simply left a couple critical plays on the field when we needed them.


that seems to be a common theme in nearly every game we play them lately (outside of last years playoffs)... how many times can this team fail against a specific opponent before they get there schit together? its been like 3 years now


That's how Bears fans feel about Aaron Rodgers lol
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 7408
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had a lot of guys on IR in 2010 buy how many of them were big contributors? This past season we had several guys on IR or those who missed a significant number of games who were very difficult to replace with a backup: Rodgers - this was the big one, Cobb, Finley, Harris, Bulaga, Matthews, Heyward and Jolly. There were others who I believe were playing hurt and that limited their effectiveness out there: Perry, B. Jones, Pickett, Neal, EDS and Lacy. In the playoff game the hits continued: Sheilds, Bak and a hobbled Mulumba. I was half expecting MM to start looking for any fit looking guys under 30 in the stands as we began to run out of hale bodies. Sad
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 3450
Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pugger wrote:
We had a lot of guys on IR in 2010 buy how many of them were big contributors? This past season we had several guys on IR or those who missed a significant number of games who were very difficult to replace with a backup: Rodgers - this was the big one, Cobb, Finley, Harris, Bulaga, Matthews, Heyward and Jolly. There were others who I believe were playing hurt and that limited their effectiveness out there: Perry, B. Jones, Pickett, Neal, EDS and Lacy. In the playoff game the hits continued: Sheilds, Bak and a hobbled Mulumba. I was half expecting MM to start looking for any fit looking guys under 30 in the stands as we began to run out of hale bodies. Sad


Shame on you
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Simian07:
Quote:
I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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JBURGE25


Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 11588
Location: Canadia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
Pugger wrote:
We had a lot of guys on IR in 2010 buy how many of them were big contributors? This past season we had several guys on IR or those who missed a significant number of games who were very difficult to replace with a backup: Rodgers - this was the big one, Cobb, Finley, Harris, Bulaga, Matthews, Heyward and Jolly. There were others who I believe were playing hurt and that limited their effectiveness out there: Perry, B. Jones, Pickett, Neal, EDS and Lacy. In the playoff game the hits continued: Sheilds, Bak and a hobbled Mulumba. I was half expecting MM to start looking for any fit looking guys under 30 in the stands as we began to run out of hale bodies. Sad


Shame on you


not pugsy too... Sad
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 3450
Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JBURGE25 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
Pugger wrote:
We had a lot of guys on IR in 2010 buy how many of them were big contributors? This past season we had several guys on IR or those who missed a significant number of games who were very difficult to replace with a backup: Rodgers - this was the big one, Cobb, Finley, Harris, Bulaga, Matthews, Heyward and Jolly. There were others who I believe were playing hurt and that limited their effectiveness out there: Perry, B. Jones, Pickett, Neal, EDS and Lacy. In the playoff game the hits continued: Sheilds, Bak and a hobbled Mulumba. I was half expecting MM to start looking for any fit looking guys under 30 in the stands as we began to run out of hale bodies. Sad


Shame on you


not pugsy too... Sad


I'm dismayed that Ms. Puggs has fallen victim to the trap as well.

For some reason I picture her as Kitty from That 70s Show.
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Simian07:
Quote:
I'd argue Jordy is probably around the 30th-40th best receiver in the NFL, maybe 50th.
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 7408
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JBURGE25 wrote:
CentralFC wrote:
Pugger wrote:
We had a lot of guys on IR in 2010 buy how many of them were big contributors? This past season we had several guys on IR or those who missed a significant number of games who were very difficult to replace with a backup: Rodgers - this was the big one, Cobb, Finley, Harris, Bulaga, Matthews, Heyward and Jolly. There were others who I believe were playing hurt and that limited their effectiveness out there: Perry, B. Jones, Pickett, Neal, EDS and Lacy. In the playoff game the hits continued: Sheilds, Bak and a hobbled Mulumba. I was half expecting MM to start looking for any fit looking guys under 30 in the stands as we began to run out of hale bodies. Sad


Shame on you


not pugsy too... Sad


Oh gawd, did I spell it wrong too? Embarassed
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Skypilot


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 362
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've disproven the injury excuse. (See 2010.)

At any rate, this defense screwed the pooch in 2011, 2012 and 2013 as well as v. the Cardinals in the 2009 season playoff loss. Capers/his stubborn adherence to his 1992 scheme just aren't getting the job done. McGinn lays out a very good case using statistics and facts that management/Capers' apologists with the constant injuries excuse cannot realistically counter.

It's not all on Capers (there are holes in the D, specifically at FS, ILB, Nick Perry not being used properly and Capers' silly 2-man lines) but absent his fat contract, I think Dom would be history now.
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spilltray


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10154
Location: Green Bay, WI
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skypilot wrote:
We've disproven the injury excuse. (See 2010.)

At any rate, this defense screwed the pooch in 2011, 2012 and 2013 as well as v. the Cardinals in the 2009 season playoff loss. Capers/his stubborn adherence to his 1992 scheme just aren't getting the job done. McGinn lays out a very good case using statistics and facts that management/Capers' apologists with the constant injuries excuse cannot realistically counter.

It's not all on Capers (there are holes in the D, specifically at FS, ILB, Nick Perry not being used properly and Capers' silly 2-man lines) but absent his fat contract, I think Dom would be history now.


Really? Disproven? What significant contributors did we lose in 2010? Who replaced them? Nothing has been disproven here.

McGinn lays out crap. Consistently. Using his trash writing to back up anything makes you wrong before you even start.

Pretty much EVERY 3-4 team runs a 2-DL nickle
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Memory is like the Packers when they are behind by two touchdowns in the 4th quarter... It comes back.
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Pugger


Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 7408
Location: N. Fort Myers, FL
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skypilot wrote:
We've disproven the injury excuse. (See 2010.)

At any rate, this defense screwed the pooch in 2011, 2012 and 2013 as well as v. the Cardinals in the 2009 season playoff loss. Capers/his stubborn adherence to his 1992 scheme just aren't getting the job done. McGinn lays out a very good case using statistics and facts that management/Capers' apologists with the constant injuries excuse cannot realistically counter.

It's not all on Capers (there are holes in the D, specifically at FS, ILB, Nick Perry not being used properly and Capers' silly 2-man lines) but absent his fat contract, I think Dom would be history now.


Go back and read my post above. What real contributors/starters besides Finley did we lose in 2010 compared to this year?
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Mr. Fussnputz


Joined: 12 Jan 2014
Posts: 17
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:56 pm    Post subject: complacency Reply with quote

IMHO all organizations can become complacent over time, especially successful ones. As a matter of fact, success makes complacency more likely. Why change when things are going well? And the Packers have been a very successful organization since Ted Thompson arrived on the scene. Good organizations must take steps to avoid becoming victims of their own success. The Packers do self-studies periodically, but self-studies are limited IMHO. Really great organizations should have external evaluations done periodically as well. External evaluators have nothing to hide and have no favorites to protect. For example, if the Packers are using some outdated training methods (because they always worked before) an external evaluator can point that out without worrying about hurting the feelings of the training staff. The players have an "external evaluation" in a sense every time they play, but coaches can soften that evaluation by making excuses for players they have grown fond of, or players they are committed to contractually for some time. Turning over a coaching staff is one harsh way of getting an external evaluation (because they are new to the organization), but not necessarily the only way. Hiring independent good football people (scouts?) for a one time evaluation of the Packer organization would be less disruptive, but upper management MUST act on their recommendations, if they are to be effective. The Packers have been successful long enough for complacency to have set in. Next year should be interesting. All three division opponents will have relatively new coaches, so each of them will have an external review of sorts. If the Bears, Vikings, and Lions act on the observations of their new people, adjustments will be made and I fully expect all three opponents to be more competitive. The Packers don't need to fire anybody (I think they are all competent coaches) but they do need good football people from outside of the organization to evaluate the team from top to bottom and then take action on the evaluation. Areas to look at would be training methods (why so many injuries?), players and player acquisition, coaches and coaching schemes. My sense is the timing is right for this. Something seems slightly amiss in Green Bay. Rodgers arguing with McMarthy on the sidelines, sooo many injuries, Kevin Greene resigning, not able to sell out a home playoff game, losing to SF again and again, special team breakdowns including Ross looking bad in Gb and then looking like an All-pro in Detroit!
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Stinkmeanest


Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 27
Location: 127 Mi. SW of Lambeau
PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good post. I think some of it is the organization over thinking things. Trying to be the smartest one in the room has hurt this team some. The constant stubborness of forcing square pegs in a round hole year after year when it's evident that we've failed in that regard. Stop trying to polish turds on the cheap and get BPA here on out.
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KingCobb


Joined: 04 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^Your sig pic is the best thing since sliced bread
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jimgemlill


Joined: 20 Aug 2009
Posts: 785
Location: England
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stinkmeanest wrote:
Good post. I think some of it is the organization over thinking things. Trying to be the smartest one in the room has hurt this team some. The constant stubborness of forcing square pegs in a round hole year after year when it's evident that we've failed in that regard. Stop trying to polish turds on the cheap and get BPA here on out.


BPA here on out? Aren't we famous for taking BPA?

Over thinking/trying to be smartest? Like the browns coaching carrousel?

The line that success has made us stubborn? If we win we should fire everyone? So... how often should we fire coaches?

I don't understand the idea of changing something because its worked for too long.
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packerbacker87 on the sig! Again!
Does anything stop aaroncharles from bringing his brand of crazy back to this forum under a different name?
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Stinkmeanest


Joined: 16 Jan 2014
Posts: 27
Location: 127 Mi. SW of Lambeau
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingCobb wrote:
^Your sig pic is the best thing since sliced bread

Thanks! Made it myself. I have a graphic design background, so I guess I'm kind of like a tattoo artist in prison. Laughing
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Stinkmeanest


Joined: 16 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jimgemlill wrote:
Stinkmeanest wrote:
Good post. I think some of it is the organization over thinking things. Trying to be the smartest one in the room has hurt this team some. The constant stubborness of forcing square pegs in a round hole year after year when it's evident that we've failed in that regard. Stop trying to polish turds on the cheap and get BPA here on out.


BPA here on out? Aren't we famous for taking BPA?

Over thinking/trying to be smartest? Like the browns coaching carrousel?

The line that success has made us stubborn? If we win we should fire everyone? So... how often should we fire coaches?

I don't understand the idea of changing something because its worked for too long.

My bad. What I meant was moving guys out of their natural position in the last few years. When we do put them in the rotation, they are shuffled around (see Raji, Matthews, Burnett) and not used to their upmost effectiveness. This is undoubtedly due to injuries, but do when do you switch them back, if ever?
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