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Lil' Shorty 2014 Mock Offseason 1.0
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indifference


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 1903
PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
96BucsBallin wrote:
To elaborate on my post I would rather pick a starter with the #7 pick this year and give Glennon a year under Tedford to see if he can develop. Worst case scenario, we have Winston/Mariota throwing to Watkins/Ebron/Lee next year or we have a stronger defense with Mack/Barr/Murphy. If there is one year the fans and owners will give Lovie a pass on winning it would be year one.


I can't argue with your assessment. One would think if we build around glennon and he stinks we HOPE to just land a Winston or Mariotta. Maybe Hundley after another year under his belt.

However the glazers look at all of the money sunk into this franchise the past 2 offseasons. They want ROI. They brought in a vet. Head coach to win now. They failed rebuild 101 and 102 with Dom/Raheem and Dom/schiano.

They may make the move to go all in on a franchise qb this year. I wouldn't be surprised.
Mariota/Winston/Hundley will definitely be an interesting class to watch for in 2015. I think its a bad idea though to rely on players duplicating success and then it backfires because we thought for sure we'd get a shot at least 3 QB prospects. If Hundley has a bad year and Winston or Mariota fall off in terms of play it'll backfire if Glennon doesn't pan out. Carr has bigger upside than Glennon and its not because of his draft status. He is not just more athletic than him but, Carr has that gunslinger mentality to make tough throws. He takes risk and isn't scared to throw into tight windows. I don't wanna trade up for Carr but I'll support the pick at #7.
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This past season resembles the '04 season. You remember that season. Starter Brad Johnson was replaced after 4 games with a young, 3rd round QB in Chris Simms. Simms get hurt in his first game, and Brian Griese plays the remaining games until Simms returns for the final game against Arizona.

Heading into '05 draft, there was a feeling that the Bucs were in good shape at the QB position. Drafting at #5 overall, a certain QB with a first round grade was bypassed for Cadillac Williams because the team had a vet and a third round strong-armed QB on the roster. There was no need for Aaron Rodgers. Evil or Very Mad

So I ask is '13 Glennon > Griese/Simms '04? I say sign McCown, and draft a QB early, never a bad thing to have a lot of good options at QB.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
This past season resembles the '04 season. You remember that season. Starter Brad Johnson was replaced after 4 games with a young, 3rd round QB in Chris Simms. Simms get hurt in his first game, and Brian Griese plays the remaining games until Simms returns for the final game against Arizona.

Heading into '05 draft, there was a feeling that the Bucs were in good shape at the QB position. Drafting at #5 overall, a certain QB with a first round grade was bypassed for Cadillac Williams because the team had a vet and a third round strong-armed QB on the roster. There was no need for Aaron Rodgers. Evil or Very Mad

So I ask is '13 Glennon > Griese/Simms '04? I say sign McCown, and draft a QB early, never a bad thing to have a lot of good options at QB.



Simms started two games and threw 1 td and 3 ints with 2 lost fumbles in 04. Explain to me how that compare to what Glennon did this season? Also who is the next Aaron Rodgers that we could be passing up?
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ravishingone


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuces22wild wrote:
ravishingone wrote:
This past season resembles the '04 season. You remember that season. Starter Brad Johnson was replaced after 4 games with a young, 3rd round QB in Chris Simms. Simms get hurt in his first game, and Brian Griese plays the remaining games until Simms returns for the final game against Arizona.

Heading into '05 draft, there was a feeling that the Bucs were in good shape at the QB position. Drafting at #5 overall, a certain QB with a first round grade was bypassed for Cadillac Williams because the team had a vet and a third round strong-armed QB on the roster. There was no need for Aaron Rodgers. Evil or Very Mad

So I ask is '13 Glennon > Griese/Simms '04? I say sign McCown, and draft a QB early, never a bad thing to have a lot of good options at QB.



Simms started two games and threw 1 td and 3 ints with 2 lost fumbles in 04. Explain to me how that compare to what Glennon did this season? Also who is the next Aaron Rodgers that we could be passing up?


I don't know who could be the next Aaron Rodgers in the draft, that is Lovie/Tedford's job. However, I have a hard time believing the QB position is set for the next ten years from a QB who went 4-9 in his first year. So he played a tough schedule, so what? Does that mean he gets a pass. Considering this draft class is likely to have 4 QBs with a first round grade, what sense does it make to pass on one because of what Glennon has accomplished this year? I'm not comfortable covering the most important position on the field with a guy who has shown to be okay. I hope Lovie/Tedford feel the same way.
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BBando


Joined: 18 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Colts should have given up on Peyton since he went 3-13 in his first year. Lets go draft another guy in the first and not let our promising rookie play. That sounds like a great idea. Will Glennon be a top 5 QB in a few years? Probably not. But he has shown promise with a 3rd string RB, terrible O-Line, one WR who can catch and probably the worst coaching staff in the league. Just give him a chance. Go draft someone who can get to the passer or that will protect our passer in the first round. Unless Lovie/Tedford fall in love with a guy. Glennon will be our QB next year.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
ravishingone wrote:
This past season resembles the '04 season. You remember that season. Starter Brad Johnson was replaced after 4 games with a young, 3rd round QB in Chris Simms. Simms get hurt in his first game, and Brian Griese plays the remaining games until Simms returns for the final game against Arizona.

Heading into '05 draft, there was a feeling that the Bucs were in good shape at the QB position. Drafting at #5 overall, a certain QB with a first round grade was bypassed for Cadillac Williams because the team had a vet and a third round strong-armed QB on the roster. There was no need for Aaron Rodgers. Evil or Very Mad

So I ask is '13 Glennon > Griese/Simms '04? I say sign McCown, and draft a QB early, never a bad thing to have a lot of good options at QB.



Simms started two games and threw 1 td and 3 ints with 2 lost fumbles in 04. Explain to me how that compare to what Glennon did this season? Also who is the next Aaron Rodgers that we could be passing up?


I don't know who could be the next Aaron Rodgers in the draft, that is Lovie/Tedford's job. However, I have a hard time believing the QB position is set for the next ten years from a QB who went 4-9 in his first year. So he played a tough schedule, so what? Does that mean he gets a pass. Considering this draft class is likely to have 4 QBs with a first round grade, what sense does it make to pass on one because of what Glennon has accomplished this year? I'm not comfortable covering the most important position on the field with a guy who has shown to be okay. I hope Lovie/Tedford feel the same way.


Glennon to me is a qb that NEEDs everything around him to be decent. I can't really look at him and say I'm set when he looked okay in a few games this year. Nothing really stood out and wowed me about him. It was just , ehh.
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REDandPEWTER


Joined: 31 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBando wrote:
The Colts should have given up on Peyton since he went 3-13 in his first year. Lets go draft another guy in the first and not let our promising rookie play. That sounds like a great idea. Will Glennon be a top 5 QB in a few years? Probably not. But he has shown promise with a 3rd string RB, terrible O-Line, one WR who can catch and probably the worst coaching staff in the league. Just give him a chance. Go draft someone who can get to the passer or that will protect our passer in the first round. Unless Lovie/Tedford fall in love with a guy. Glennon will be our QB next year.


Here's the thing with Peyton manning. 1998 1st overall.
- glennon: 73rd overall in 2013.

Manning:
- 3-13 : 26 tds. 28 ints. 6.5 YPA. 22 sacks. 12 th ranked offense.
- checked game log: his game got stronger as the season progressed.

Glennon:
- 4-9 : 19 tds to 9 ints. 40 sacks. 32nd ranked offense. Defense top 7 in TOs.
- as the season progressed he did not get stronger. 6.3 YPA.

Watch game film and you see the % completion wise is inflated with a number of check downs. Missed opportunities. Late. Holding on to the ball. 4.25 seconds drop back sacks (that is pretty bad on qb not oline).
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BBando


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to see one of the best QB prospects ever had a better rookie year than our 3rd round pick. Shocked me on that.
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deuces22wild


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravishingone wrote:
deuces22wild wrote:
ravishingone wrote:
This past season resembles the '04 season. You remember that season. Starter Brad Johnson was replaced after 4 games with a young, 3rd round QB in Chris Simms. Simms get hurt in his first game, and Brian Griese plays the remaining games until Simms returns for the final game against Arizona.

Heading into '05 draft, there was a feeling that the Bucs were in good shape at the QB position. Drafting at #5 overall, a certain QB with a first round grade was bypassed for Cadillac Williams because the team had a vet and a third round strong-armed QB on the roster. There was no need for Aaron Rodgers. Evil or Very Mad

So I ask is '13 Glennon > Griese/Simms '04? I say sign McCown, and draft a QB early, never a bad thing to have a lot of good options at QB.



Simms started two games and threw 1 td and 3 ints with 2 lost fumbles in 04. Explain to me how that compare to what Glennon did this season? Also who is the next Aaron Rodgers that we could be passing up?


I don't know who could be the next Aaron Rodgers in the draft, that is Lovie/Tedford's job. However, I have a hard time believing the QB position is set for the next ten years from a QB who went 4-9 in his first year. So he played a tough schedule, so what? Does that mean he gets a pass. Considering this draft class is likely to have 4 QBs with a first round grade, what sense does it make to pass on one because of what Glennon has accomplished this year? I'm not comfortable covering the most important position on the field with a guy who has shown to be okay. I hope Lovie/Tedford feel the same way.


Glennon went 4-9 or the organization went 4-9 lol Glennon "went" 19-9 with a 85 rating and 60% completed against a brutal schedule with terrible coaching and lack of weapons as a rookie who started four games in with a gong show around the previous qb and a coach who was on the hot seat all season. It's the same points brought up form each side, I should just copy and paste this Laughing Oh ya he was just voted rookie qb of the year... "but he was up against trash". I guess we should be looking out for the Bills and Jets trading up before us come draft time because they will be benching their guys as well or at least they should be right?

"So he played a tough schedule, so what"... that doesn't affect the outcome of games? Was it Glennon's play that slipped or the fact that we played the Panthers (2nd ranked def), Seahawks (1st ranked def), Dolphins (11th ranked def), Lions (best tackle duo), Panthers (2nd ranked def), Bills (10th ranked def), 9ers (5th ranked def) , Saints (4th ranked def) 8 of the last 10 games.

"I'm not comfortable covering the most important position on the field with a guy who has shown to be okay"... should we go over the list of guys over the last ten seasons that as rookies had worse seasons then Glennon did this season and they turned out to be the man.

Oh ya right, someone's brought up a few times the tape has shown our receivers got open all year (so Watkins would be a luxury pick) and Glennon should of dropped a 28/34 game against the 2nd ranked def in the 9ers.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deuces,

Keep bringing it up but it's not just that game. Those were 9 routine throws that he just didn't see.

We need a qb that's going to perform against the best teams. Not crumble and check down or hesitate/indecisive.

Our defense did its job. It created TOs and got stops. Our offense barely had a pulse.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBando wrote:
Glad to see one of the best QB prospects ever had a better rookie year than our 3rd round pick. Shocked me on that.


Well you wanna throw the comparison around then be my guest. It's chaos to do that.

Also his line wasn't that bad when he's getting 4.25 seconds to get a pass off. To me that's on the qb not the oline.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am obviously a Glennon supporter but I see the other side of the argument. Do I want a Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning... uh ya! Are those guys who they are because there teams let them go after their rookie year? Are we always going to be looking for that guy and have a revolving door at qb because we won't settle unit we have an all time great? I want a guy that can run a 4.2 and throw the ball 80 yards on a rope like everyone else. Probably would make me say "#$% ya" a few more times a game. Am I content with a mid tier guy... maybe. We have elite pieces around Glennon now, I would hate to pass up the chance at adding more weapons or potential elite guys at other positions because we are chasing something that might never be there.

It seems odd though that some around here don't put everything into play. He missed this, he f'd that up, so what if we played a tough schedule, so what if he was missing guys. McCoy wouldn't blow the f up with a guy like Hardy or Allen playing along side him? A healthy Williams, Nicks, Martin and at least a decent staff wouldn't of helped Glennon? Maybe with all his check downs Martin could of taken one or two to the house and inflated his number even more.

Again for the 200th time already I'd just like to say I saw enough from him this year from work ethic, not getting rattled, respect from the guys, to throws, at times foot work to say get everyone healthy let's go bpa round 1 and role with a top 5-8 defense and see what he can do with a full year. He doesn't produce then come draft we can start drafting the 3rd, 4th, 5th ranked qb and hope he is the next Joe Montana.
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deuces22wild


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDandPEWTER wrote:
Deuces,

Keep bringing it up but it's not just that game. Those were 9 routine throws that he just didn't see.

We need a qb that's going to perform against the best teams. Not crumble and check down or hesitate/indecisive.

Our defense did its job. It created TOs and got stops. Our offense barely had a pulse.


That's fine let's draft Carr then and hope during his rookie year when we are playing a ten game stretch against teams with an average of a top 5 defense that he can carry the team when three out of four of our best offensive weapons are injured. I hope he dominates because if he doesn't then in 2015 we might be looking at other option. Eh Carr is more athletic though and the fact that we drafted him in the first will force us to use him again just like some say the Jets and Bills are doing this year.
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REDandPEWTER


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If glennon was in this draft ,

1. Bridgewater
2a. Manziel
2b. Carr
4. Bortles
5. Garappolo
6. Aaron Murray
7. Brett smith.
8. Mike glennon.
9. Zach Mettenburgh
10. Tahj Boyd.

Manuel and smith are the bills and jets issues. I don't wanna be the bills not jets with crappy to below average qb play. Glennon is upgradable and at the most important position on the field you gotta get it right. Glennon was a 3rd round pick. 9+/10, becomes a back up.
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bucstopshere


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you dont pass on a franchise quarterback if you dont have one. All of that comes down to the new gm, Lovie and Tedford evaluating.

Whatever they feel they want to do is fine by me. Im not going to speculate because I have no idea how they feel
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